Author Topic: Mig Welder Control Board  (Read 8442 times)

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jenkinswt

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Mig Welder Control Board
« on: November 12, 2018, 09:56:48 PM »
Ok, not sure if this is the right area to post this so feel free to move it. I recently purchased a Hobart 230 Mig welder knowing it had some drive motor issues. It welds great but occasionally the drive motor would stop or had trouble starting. At first I thought it was the motor itself because if you kind of helped it along it would work but then got worse quickly. So far I have tested:

The trigger switch: bypassed it, no change and can hear the relay click every time anyways.
The motor: 12 volts applied and it worked perfectly even stopping and starting. Also checked w/ meter and it showed no voltage when it didn't work and voltage when it did so the problem is upstream further.
The potentiometer: replaced it because one of the wire prongs was about to fall off and thought for sure that had to be it but no change.

I've also been talking to Hobart on this, the welder is way beyond warranty but they are helpful. I'm led to believe the issue must be in the control board from talking with them. The board is 235ish the cheapest I have found anywhere and i'm too cheap! It might come down to that but don't want to throw it away if its something small. Although I don't have any circuit board experience and my electrical soldering skills are limited to larger wiring, etc. but feel I could figure it out. I have the board out and attaching a few pictures. The second picture there is a cap that looks like it could be touching a bracket too much? Not sure if this could be a problem.

The worst part is I have a leak in the top of our wood boiler and really need to get this fixed so I can fix the boiler.

JW

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2018, 10:25:34 AM »
I have seen this before, its usually a mechanical problem. The spool of the wire passes in-between to rollers. There should be a spring adjusting the pressure on the wire before it heads in to the main cable.

Run the welder with the access door open and see if the rollers spin while feeding wire. Most likely they will spin without pushing the wire, adjust the tension of the two small rollers.   

jenkinswt

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2018, 10:37:33 AM »
I currently have the spring roller completely off so there is no pressure at all on it. There is no voltage being put to the drive motor when this is happening. Before I ordered the pot a hobart tech told me it was either the pot or the board. I replaced the pot because there was a broken spade connector on it and thought this was most likely the problem. I can jumper the wires at the pot  (wire speed switch) and it still doesn't work right but will run at full speed then slow down or sometimes it won't work at all. Right now I am leaning towards buying a new board but can't really afford it so I think I might have to wait on this awhile.

mab

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2018, 11:41:03 AM »
I'd get a good magnifying glass and check the solder joints on the board for hair-line cracks, particularly around the bigger, high current components or anything that gets hot like big  resistors . If in doubt, resolder them.

MagnetJuice

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2018, 11:53:09 AM »
Here is a picture of the Electrical Diagram for that Welder. Hopefully it could help someone to diagnose the problem.

I have not been able to find any schematic diagrams.
11493-0

I believe that the same welder is sold under the MILLER brand name. I have the user manual on PDF too if anyone is interested.

Ed
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 12:02:35 PM by MagnetJuice »
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jenkinswt

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2018, 12:32:19 PM »
Yes your right the miller/hobart are basically the same. The replacement pot I put on even came in a miller bag. I forgot to mention I had that diagram but thank you for posting it maybe someone will see something. On the diagram that shows 16, 14, 9 those are the wires that go to the pot. Also 18 & 6 go to the drive motor that's not getting voltage. When I click the trigger I get voltage at the welding output & at the gas solenoid, also hear the relay click.

I will try to look over everything again, I've tried crossing 2 thermistors to see if that changed anything but it didn't. I'm not sure if I am looking too hard at the board as the culprit but not sure what else to check, also the hobart tech thought it was the board based on there being no power to the motor but everything else working when the trigger is squeezed. Occasionally the drive motor will work though but its getting rare to get it to work now. Its also getting a lot colder where the welder is so I am not sure if there is a scenario where a thermistor would go bad if cold instead of hot? From what I've read these are to protect the drive motor if it was to bind up. The wire moves freely from the gun by hand, also I don't have the tensioner closed right now.

Thank you everyone for help, its much appreciated!

MagnetJuice

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2018, 12:53:43 PM »
On that diagram, CB1 and CB2 appear to be resettable circuit breakers with a reset button on the side of the welder. CB1 protects the board and CB2 protects the motor. Could any of those breakers be defective?

Here is the User Manual:

[DamonHD: removed 3rd-party copyright manual]
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 01:44:44 PM by DamonHD »
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jenkinswt

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2018, 01:22:30 PM »
I wondered about this as well. I've tried holding in on them to see if it changes but its the same. I will take a look to see if I can jumper it.

Mary B

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 02:49:08 PM »
Most likely bad relay contacts sometimes the case can be popped off to get at them to clean with a contact file or even the corner of a dollar bill(old old electronic trick). With no schematic of the board itself hard to guess which relay is which. You can try following circuit board traces from the motor connector back...

jenkinswt

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 04:10:20 PM »
Ok, I tried jumpering the breakers and no change. The relays I can't take apart. I then crossed one of the relays on the back of the board and the motor started spinning when I pressed the trigger! The only problem is now it is only turning at a high speed like I am welding 1/2" metal or something. I hope I didn't mess up the new pot? I did a few welds on 1/8" metal and I can weld but not very good. The wire wants to jab so I have to keep pulling back to the puddle. It doesn't look perfect but maybe I can put a patch in the boiler, not sure yet.

I'm not sure what changed after crossing the relay, its like its on all the time and bypassing the pot? At this point I don't know if a new board would fix it or not.

MagnetJuice

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 04:24:27 PM »
I agree with Mary about the relays possibly being the problem. Over time, the contacts on the relays get burned and pitted. That makes the connection intermittent and unreliable and even stick in the ON position.

You could try replacing the relays, one at the time. Those relays are easy to find and cost about $10 each. It all depends on how much time you are willing to spend on this and on the price of a new board. If the price of the new board is not too much, it would be better to replace the board. That way all components will be new and you'll have the old board in case you need an emergency repair.

Another option is to see if you can get help finding the problem or getting a schematic diagram of that board from another forum. Here are 2 forums that deal specifically with these type of welders. I read some of the forum answers and they seem to be nice and helpful people.

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum
https://weldtalk.hobartwelders.com

Ed
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jenkinswt

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2018, 06:15:41 PM »
Ya I signed up the other day on the weldtalk forum and received a reply quickly but didn't hear back again. Seems like a good forum though. I think after crossing the relay and it permanently working but only on high speed I am leaning towards just ordering the the board. Its $235 for the board but I'd like to get this up and going quickly. Maybe sometime I can order relays and some other components and try my hand at fixing the old board. Its really easy to take the board in and out so I could switch it out to test it.

Thanks for everyone doing so much work on troubleshooting, I do appreciate it!

TeraWales

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2019, 02:15:43 PM »
Hi..that large resistor looks like a current sense resistor. If it has gone open circuit then you may well get the symptom you describe.
The resistance is printed on it, read this and measure across the leads with a multimeter. Don't be surprised if there is some difference because it is in circuit, but if it reads more than 10% higher than what is printed on the side that's bad.

MagnetJuice

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2019, 01:32:16 PM »
Welcome to the Forum TeraWales.

If replacing that resistor would fix the problem that would be an easy fix.

Stick around here; we can use a few more electronics brains.  ;)

Ed
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FlyFishn

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2019, 10:23:26 PM »
The resistance is printed on it, read this and measure across the leads with a multimeter. Don't be surprised if there is some difference because it is in circuit, but if it reads more than 10% higher than what is printed on the side that's bad.

Can you qualify your statement?

If the component is in the circuit - and it would be until one leg is disconnected from it - the resistance value is anyone's guess without knowing the details of the circuit in which the component is placed. Therefore, placing a blanket "10%" value on range of resistance from the marked value to be "bad" if outside of that range I think is a WildAssGuess. I would be curious on the reasoning you have for the "10%" value if you do have sound logic for it, however.

For the original issue - I see that board uses through hole components. That makes life easier than surface mount components. Those boards are relatively easy to work on that way - if you have some patience and steady hands I'm sure working on the board can be done. There are ways to repair broken traces and pads if you screw any up, however what you have to be really careful of are multi-layer boards with plated through-holes. Sometimes boards will have 2-4 layers to them and what connects circuitry between the layers is a sleeve, or plating, inside of the hole that a component lead is soldered to. If you aren't careful with your re-work and you pull a sleeve through with the lead of a component you are removing you are loosing that component's internal connection to the other board layers. That is pretty much a catastrophic problem because you can't open the board layers to expose the disconnect where the sleeve was originally connected inside.

If the board is single or dual layer (top and bottom traces, no layers sandwiched between) board re-work is a lot more forgiving.

The IC's on the board can be sensitive to static etc. If you have an IC that is part of the variable speed drive for the wire feed circuit that is bad this could also account for the problem. A lot of times those IC's are very run-of-the-mill components and can be had on ebay for pennies. Sometimes, if the circuits that components are in are old - even within 5 years, you can find certain components obsolete and no longer produced. In that case, you may need to find the original specs of the component and see if there is a current production component that is the same or close enough.

I have a ham radio that had a component issue once. It is a kit radio and the manufacturer was unable to source a particular IC as a through-hole component. They were able to get it as a surface mount instead. So what they did was they built the surface mount component on a "daughterboard", a micro-size circuit board about the size of a penny, that had through-hole IC pinning on one side to go to the main circuit board, and the surface mount IC soldered to the other side ready to go. Pretty slick solution.

Bruce S

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2019, 11:34:50 AM »
The resistance is printed on it, read this and measure across the leads with a multimeter. Don't be surprised if there is some difference because it is in circuit, but if it reads more than 10% higher than what is printed on the side that's bad.

Can you qualify your statement?

If the component is in the circuit - and it would be until one leg is disconnected from it - the resistance value is anyone's guess without knowing the details of the circuit in which the component is placed. Therefore, placing a blanket "10%" value on range of resistance from the marked value to be "bad" if outside of that range I think is a WildAssGuess. I would be curious on the reasoning you have for the "10%" value if you do have sound logic for it, however.

Flyfishn

Please don't do these kind of statements. Calling someone's troubleshooting techniques "WildAssGuess" is just as bad as unqualified  "blanket" statements.  TeraWales, probably has a very good reason to that statement.

Bruce S
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MagnetJuice

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2019, 05:39:28 PM »
Flyfishn,

It would be good if TeraWales could sign in and explain it himself. In his absence, I can say that his logic is sound.

Let's assume that the resistor is 100 ohms. If it is “in circuit”, there will be other resistances in parallel with it, lowering the measured resistance by a little or by a lot. He is assuming a tolerance of + or – 10%. Therefore, if the resistor is not open, the measured resistance should be lower than 100 ohms. So if the measured resistance is over 110 ohms, the resistor is open.

Does that makes sense?

Ed
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JW

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2019, 06:34:38 PM »
I had a similar problem with my little Lincoln welder, I just decided to buy a new welder. It uses C25 flux gas, or flux core wire, I prefer to use C25 don't worry about the cob webs Its ready to go at anytime :) Oh ya don't use straight argon flux gas it wont work.

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JW

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Re: Mig Welder Control Board
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2019, 07:11:14 PM »
This is my highly modified TIG welder, it runs on 220 with argon. I love this machine it welds aluminum great :)


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« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 07:21:38 PM by JW »