Author Topic: The first step for my shop  (Read 38065 times)

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Scruff

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #231 on: October 24, 2020, 03:33:07 PM »
That's one of those sacred commandments innit?

"Thou shalt not f*** with pressure vessels!"

PVC line has shyte impact resistance too.

Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #232 on: October 24, 2020, 06:22:09 PM »
In 1971 while briefly working for a plumbing contractor we were installing water, natural gas, Oxygen, and compressed airlines throughout a new chemical lime plant wat was being built everything larger than 4" pipe had to be at least sch 80 steel pipe and welded 8" and larger was sch XX  only compressed air lines and water lines were allowed to be anything less than sch 80 once the lines were smaller than 1 1/2" some lines 3" and under were allowed to be threaded.
 when things were specked and made like that you had a confidence it was going to last a long time.
 I have installed 1/2" wall thickness 2" ID urethane lines as 200PSI compressed air lines but always  thermal welded with couplings and connectors never butted pipes for main runs with 3/4" ID 1/4" wall thickness for the drop lines to water traps and filters.
 I've not tried the aluminum lined poly  fast line yet but I've read some good reports on it
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MattM

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #233 on: October 24, 2020, 07:08:38 PM »
Funny timing.  My father in-law was just telling me about the air tank launching off the ground yesterday, going fifteen feet up to the ceiling, clanking off the metal rafter, and flying out the door.  I kept telling him you cannot leave water in the tank and he kept making excuses over the last 7-8 years.  I cleaned it out about a year ago and took about 2" of thick rustic water out of the tank.  I warned him the tank wasn't safe anymore with all that rust accumulated because he's been neglecting it.  It blew out right near his clean out.  One of the few times the guy he has ever said he should have listened to me.

Scruff

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #234 on: October 24, 2020, 07:26:38 PM »
Boggles the mind doesn't it? It's not like it's news to anyone that the insides of tanks rust.

So why don't they galvanise them? Or use stainless? Or paint them?

Project for someone...flip the lines make it a vaccum pump and suck stone chip into the tank....I'll buy two!

Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #235 on: October 24, 2020, 09:39:32 PM »
Boggles the mind doesn't it? It's not like it's news to anyone that the insides of tanks rust.

So why don't they galvanise them? Or use stainless? Or paint them?

Project for someone...flip the lines make it a vaccum pump and suck stone chip into the tank....I'll buy two!
I'll try to address these questions in part.
 First off why not galvanize? in order for this to work the galvanizing process would have to be done after the tank was completely assembled. this is doable as pressure tanks for water wells used to be galvanized, operative words here used to be now almost all have neoprene bladders in them at least the smaller ones under 150 gallons. I do remember some very old air storage tanks that were galvanized but those dated back to the 1950s or 60s the galvanic coating usually hot dip zinc will eventually flake off inside of the tanks this can be caused by a number of things the changing of pressure up and down over a long period of time which causes the metal to expand and contract so the tank is going to fail eventually anyway either from rust forming in the areas where the galvanize had flaked off or from metal fatigue.
 How about Stainless? good question and some of the more expensive compressors do actually have stainless tanks but they are rare and as I said expensive. Again not all stainless is created equal many grades will corrode or rust as we like to call it almost as readily as mild steel under certain conditions.
 Painting can be an option providing a moisture cured urethane paint is used but it must be of a grade that will always remain flexible otherwise it will crack and rust will form under it.
 How about other metals such as Aluminum? My US Divers 81 cubic foot scuba tanks were made of aluminum I used them for many years so long in fact that they had been hydrotested several times to retain certification. Some of the small pancake compressors do have aluminum tanks on them. so that has been done.
 How about higher strength metals that are corrosion resistant such as core 10? No real reason not to except again the matter of cost and processing.
 We could use boiler grade steel such as ASTN 516 that stuff should last for ever in such a mild environment as a air compressor tank. except for that nagging little word again "cost"
 The way I look at it most compressor tanks are probably well enough engineered to have a service life well beyond most consumer grade compressors. But for the same reason your car needs an oil change regularly your wife's clothes dryer needs to have the lint trap cleaned and so on, compressor tanks require the water to be drained at regular intervals.
 Not long ago I fabricated 3 replacement air tanks for a 1930 something truck. The originals had finally given up the ghost after 90 years. The reason I fabricated them instead of the guy just going out and buying them was their odd size placement and number of ports on them.
 When he asked me if I would be interested in making them for him I said sure no problem. Well there is no such thing as tubing of any kind that had the exact same outer diameter at any thickness. So I was going to get some sheet steel rolled, well none of the metal works places anywhere within 600 miles of me had the capability or the willingness as in many cases to roll 3 cylinders each of which a different diameter some could roll the correct diameter and the thickness I wanted but their machines could not roll the length, the ones that had machines which could roll the length could not roll as small of diameter as I needed,
 So I made my own plate roll


and my onw hydraulic power unit to power it
     
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Scruff

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #236 on: October 24, 2020, 10:36:39 PM »
There's something highly admirable about toolmakers.
I guess it's a combination of attitude, know-how and tenacity.





Nice contraption....

...I dunno if I'd callit the "Rockin' Roller" or the "Rolls Vice"

Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #237 on: October 24, 2020, 10:44:09 PM »
You really have to admire Archimedes though. he was the man who figured out how to actually screw water into running up hill
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Scruff

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #238 on: October 24, 2020, 11:00:52 PM »
Aye. I kinda prefer the ram pump though because it's powered by itself. Maybe not so scalable though.
They make not bad low head high flow turbines them screws I hear.

I fancy a vortex jobber....I reckon it'll be an exploration in getting wet and not much power given the resource I have in mind.

Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #239 on: October 24, 2020, 11:27:23 PM »
The thing about a ram pump if you have enough flow and can be satisfied with limited efficiency over time they will pump a significant amount of water.
 The following link has diagrams and flow charts for fall delivery height and supply you can design your system to do quite a lot and depending on how much delivery you can sustain for a given size, with enough fall you can raise water a couple hundred meters
https://life4water2.webs.com/documents/L4W%20Guide%20to%20Designing%20and%20Sizing%20Hydraulic%20Ram%20Pump%20System.pdf
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Scruff

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #240 on: October 24, 2020, 11:40:59 PM »
Cheers Frank,

I just natched that for the maybe someday folder.
Mrs Scruff thought it'd be a great idea to stick one in our stream, tank it and then return it through a turbine.

ain't happenin'!
I'm sure you don't have to ask why.

I might build her one for watering flowers with though...

Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #241 on: October 24, 2020, 11:43:49 PM »
I never have a problem with not enough help showing up to inspect things I am doing.
 My inner tube for the rear tire on my backhoe came today 2 days before I had expected it. Si instead of waiting until Monday loading the old tire and rim and the replacement tire and tube in the pickup and taking it to the tire man in town I decided to do what I nearly always do change it out myself. Its really not such a big deal just some work as with everything else. But my helpers like to climb on everything
13413-0
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Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #242 on: October 25, 2020, 12:01:58 AM »
Cheers Frank,

I just natched that for the maybe someday folder.
Mrs Scruff thought it'd be a great idea to stick one in our stream, tank it and then return it through a turbine.

ain't happenin'!
I'm sure you don't have to ask why.

I might build her one for watering flowers with though...
Not sure of how your local constabulary would view you diverting a significant amount of water from your stream to a holding tank which would be sufficient for you to create a few meters of fall in the drive pipe then allow about 60% of that water to return to the stream while lifting the rest up to a holding tank as high in elevation as possible  then let that water fall through a pipe and spray on a turbine before returning to the stream.
 What they never seem to comprehend is the fact that 100% of the water flowing in the stream will eventually be flowing through the stream.
 If your stream has enough flow that you could construct a large enough holding tank with enough volume to run a 4inch pump from a 10 meter fall to a tank some 30 meters above feeding a 2" pipe falling the 30 meters to a turbine and never run out of water there is a significant amount of energy which can be captured in the form of electricity.
 Another thing they could not possibly ever understand is systems such as this could be constructed at every elevation which happened to be double in fall below the first and large enough streams can support multiples of these at each elevation 
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bigrockcandymountain

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #243 on: October 25, 2020, 08:43:56 AM »
I do tractor tires for the same reason frank.  If you don't, you're always waiting on the tire guys. 

Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #244 on: October 25, 2020, 09:50:50 AM »
I do tractor tires for the same reason frank.  If you don't, you're always waiting on the tire guys.
The thing is each time I do one I swear that the next one is going to the tire man
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Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #245 on: October 25, 2020, 01:56:39 PM »
less than half an hour this morning to finish mounting the tire and having it back on the machine went back to moving dirt and already to the point of going to need to mine up some more fill soon
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Mary B

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #246 on: October 25, 2020, 02:19:37 PM »
Funny timing.  My father in-law was just telling me about the air tank launching off the ground yesterday, going fifteen feet up to the ceiling, clanking off the metal rafter, and flying out the door.  I kept telling him you cannot leave water in the tank and he kept making excuses over the last 7-8 years.  I cleaned it out about a year ago and took about 2" of thick rustic water out of the tank.  I warned him the tank wasn't safe anymore with all that rust accumulated because he's been neglecting it.  It blew out right near his clean out.  One of the few times the guy he has ever said he should have listened to me.

This old one is not going to be picked out of trash and reused. Filling it full, putting it out 100 yards and shooting it LOL one of those cheesy oil less compressors and it is on its last legs too, takes longer and longer to fill the tank to 100psi. Lot of hours on that little contractor compressor.Rebuilt my house, built the shed, built the garage... LOT of use. Plus the use working on cars over the last 30 years...

bigrockcandymountain

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #247 on: October 25, 2020, 02:55:41 PM »
Ha ha i have swore that a few times too frank.  I'll probably keep on swearing for a few years yet. 

Scruff

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #248 on: October 25, 2020, 06:32:52 PM »
The best reason to fix yer own is because orangutans with rattle guns can't damage yer vehicle for you as part of the service.
I've a fine pile of ruined rims, & stretched wheel studs, some are mighty hard to find and expensive to replace.
I've spent 2 years looking for 2 replacement rims.
I've had a wheel come off a van after a brake job.
I've had rims I couldn't get off dancing on a 1m breaker and wouldn't come off the van with less that a 1" drive pneumatic impact after the world's most expensive tyre change.

Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #249 on: October 25, 2020, 08:29:33 PM »
Mary B I bought a near new looking oil-less compressor at an auction for less than breakfast at Mc Donald's would cost without a drink. I got it home plugged it in and it started hissing out the bottom of the 40 gallon vertical tank, so I turned it upside down to find a cold weld around the drain bung  a little grinding and welding fixed that problem. it was one of those Campbell Hussfield  oil less supposedly 4.5 HP. the compressor lasted 2 years the tank is still good.
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Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #250 on: October 25, 2020, 09:13:30 PM »
Scruff I have 3 vehicles that have aluminum rims on them. Personally I don't care for aluminum rims but they are what they are.
 I need to swap the tires off of my 2003 F150 and install them on my 2003 Expedition both have 17" aluminum rims.
 the 150 has 5 lug and is 4wheel drive but even though it runs perfect I currently cannot put it on the road Or I should say I will not because I want to deal with some major rust issues the Expedition also 4wheel drive but has 6 lugs. the tires on it are not what I'd call safe but the 150 has 5 brand new 6 ply Michelins   I have a 2002 Expedition that is not running but is 2 wheel drive and has 5 lugs on 17" steel rims with 50% tread on its tires so what I need to do is a 15 tire swap and no tire machine but I have a Hunter computer balancer. I like to check the rims for trueness and balance without the tires Especially aluminum rims for balance. Steel rims usually are only out of true
 SO one of my near future things to locate will be a decent no touch tire machine 
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Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #251 on: October 25, 2020, 09:30:24 PM »
After getting the tire back on the backhoe I managed to move a little fill before deciding to finish up a trailer I was working on before we get a small freezing event tonight and tomorrow

 And haul a load of dead trees

the air system on the trailer I am working on
 leveling valve for the air ride pressure gage
 valve to override the ride height
selector valve and dump valve
 the system will allow normal ride height or drop 4 inches or raise 4 inches over height for clearing RR tracks
 on the low bed trailer
I installed all new valves a larger tank new S cams and bushings
 new shoes drums bearings and seals even new lug nuts.
 Next I will add 16 D rings for load securement.
 And replace all the lights with LEDs then all that will be left will be to replace the flooring in the upper front deck and the rear deck.
 Then we will have a trailer capable of hauling 12' 3" tall loads and still be legal height





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Scruff

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #252 on: October 25, 2020, 09:41:04 PM »
Scruff I have 3 vehicles that have aluminum rims on them. Personally I don't care for aluminum rims but they are what they are.

Interesting you bring this up Frank. My daily has steelies & all seasons.
The naughty clone has OE Alloys and ahem....racing slicks...

The naugthy one is a hellova lot faster but I've been attributing that to the 4 extra valves, electronic ignition and er...lightweighting....possibly there's something to the ECU code I can't get a reader for too.

I get the whole unsprung weight theory and that but do Alloys actually make a car go significantly faster than steelies?
I've been debating swapping the boots over.

If it's bigger than a car and ever wants to tow I'd go steelies all the way. I like things you can fix with a hammer.

Mary B

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #253 on: October 26, 2020, 03:31:21 PM »
Mary B I bought a near new looking oil-less compressor at an auction for less than breakfast at Mc Donald's would cost without a drink. I got it home plugged it in and it started hissing out the bottom of the 40 gallon vertical tank, so I turned it upside down to find a cold weld around the drain bung  a little grinding and welding fixed that problem. it was one of those Campbell Hussfield  oil less supposedly 4.5 HP. the compressor lasted 2 years the tank is still good.

Same brand as mine, I am amazed I got 30 years out of it! It probably doesn't see the use you give them but it probably runs 1,000 hours a year... I suspect the piston is worn or the bore is worn and it is getting weaker by the day. Fired it up yesterday so a friend could swap on his winter tires and rims and it barely had the grunt to run the impact. Last tire we broke the lugs loose with my battery impact wrench!

Scruff

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #254 on: October 26, 2020, 03:59:11 PM »
That could be the impact too. I've opened some cheapies with plastic vanes designed to [wear] get steadily weaker with use to get you to buy a new torquey one after you're convinced it's just not hitting as hard as it used to.

Chicago pneumatic are pretty decent I find, reasonably priced too.

Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #255 on: October 27, 2020, 09:25:34 AM »
I have several impacts Mac1/2" Mac3/4" and Mac long shank 1" which are probably made by Ingersoll rand for all I know if 1400 ft.lbs. of the 1" won't get it then it is time for the gas ax
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Bruce S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #256 on: October 27, 2020, 10:19:34 AM »
I have several impacts Mac1/2" Mac3/4" and Mac long shank 1" which are probably made by Ingersoll rand for all I know if 1400 ft.lbs. of the 1" won't get it then it is time for the gas ax
There were times when a 2M breaker bar just wasn't enough on the 5Ton ARMY trucks, we'd call  for the blue-tip wrench and have coffee while the boys fired it up.

B-)
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Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #257 on: October 27, 2020, 12:27:41 PM »
I have several impacts Mac1/2" Mac3/4" and Mac long shank 1" which are probably made by Ingersoll rand for all I know if 1400 ft.lbs. of the 1" won't get it then it is time for the gas ax
There were times when a 2M breaker bar just wasn't enough on the 5Ton ARMY trucks, we'd call  for the blue-tip wrench and have coffee while the boys fired it up.

B-)
I was probably one of the most manipulative mtrsgt's in Germany. I had more unauthorized equipment assigned to my motor  pool by the Battalion  commander than Depo rebuild had in their shops. welders lathe Bridgeport brake lathe torches you name it and if I told the col. I wanted it he would make up some tactical reason for me to have it When we went to the field I even had an M724 with a PTO driven welder/ generator and an air compressor plus an M109 van rigged with a 12x36 Logan lathe a bench mounted mill and just about anything else a mobile machine shop could need. It was always a scramble when the IG inspection times came around to hide everything we couldn't provide proper documentation for having many of the things but many things I hid right in plain sight in the backs of cargo vehicles with waiting transfer and shipping documents since being a maintenance Btn. we also had logistical transport as part of it. For part of the time after the recreation crafts shop had been damaged my MTR.Pool served as the automotive crafts and repair facility at night and on weekends. One time I had the 1st stg's sons car in the shop cut in half while grafting the rear half of another car to it I didn't get it finished Sunday night so it was still there Monday morning when the Col. happened to come by. When he saw it he just shook his head and said do I even want to know what that is?
 No Sir but you might ask TOP what color his son wants it painted.
 He said I think his son's car should be painted OD green then grabbed a cup of coffee and said carry on but have someone throw a tarp over it until you or who ever is working on it shows up this evening to finish it Damn, I can't believe I volunteered to allow this shop to be a part time crafts shop     
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Bruce S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #258 on: October 27, 2020, 02:21:50 PM »
Ever get to use one of the overhead cranes left over in the former Wehrmacht repair-shops? Doors where two stories tall so they could roll even a broken train in for repair. Voltages were 3-phase 660Vac ( that bit me almost more than my body could handle (almost  :o) ).
Your "outback storage facility" sounds like ours was. Ever get near Grossauheim <- Spell check keeps fixing [(Großauheim)] ?
How's the tire holding up?

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Mary B

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #259 on: October 27, 2020, 03:31:39 PM »
That could be the impact too. I've opened some cheapies with plastic vanes designed to [wear] get steadily weaker with use to get you to buy a new torquey one after you're convinced it's just not hitting as hard as it used to.

Chicago pneumatic are pretty decent I find, reasonably priced too.

Friends Snap On(old one, no the new junk they sell) impact. Mine refused to start up, it was a $20 Walmart special so probably seized up. Have to tear it apart and see what is going on. Or just replace it with a real one LOL Most of what I d I can grab the battery impact, 200 foot pounds of torque but battery life not the best on things like lug nuts where you are breaking loose something torqued to 125 foot pounds(think that is what he said specifications was on his Suburban). Went through all 3 batteries swapping tires on his grandsons Suburban then started on his and had to fire up the compressor.

Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #260 on: October 27, 2020, 03:41:49 PM »
I was at Montieth Barracks in Furth we had the old hangers for the warehouse my motor pool was in one of the old maintenance sheds  no overhead cranes. One of my professors was from Aschaffenburg I delivered a car to him we had rebuilt then he and I toured the Schloss there but don't remember ever getting to  Großauheim.
The tire did fine, it will probably last very well with a tube in it because it is not dependent on the inner layer to hold the air
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Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #261 on: November 03, 2020, 02:18:40 AM »
I received a few unexpected additions for my shop over the weekend
13440-0
13441-1
13442-2
 I also had a brand new 400lb anvil gifted to me
13443-3
13444-4
This 400 lb, piece should make a nice base plus it had a large cavity should I ever decide to shoot the anvil on the 4th of July
13445-5
13446-6
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MattM

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #262 on: November 03, 2020, 07:04:57 AM »
That's a nice anvil.  Are you by chance setting up a forge?

Frank S

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Re: The first step for my shop
« Reply #263 on: November 03, 2020, 10:46:30 AM »
I started building a forge out of an old tractor rim back in the summer, the only thing left to it now is to add the blower and some fire clay
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin