Author Topic: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT  (Read 94073 times)

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Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #132 on: September 08, 2019, 04:07:02 AM »
In this phase of the discussion I think that it is useful to explain how it is possible that a normal 2 bladed Savonious rotor can partly work as a lift machine. Therefore I have compared a pure drag machine with two half hollow cylinders with a Savonious rotor with two half hollow cylinders which have a certain overlap. The pictures of both rotors are given in figure 1 and figure 2 of the attachment. The blades are labeled left (L) and right (R).

Figure. 1 for a non rotating blade. On the left blade there is an over pressure at the front side and an under pressure at the back side. This pressure difference results in a drag force DL. On the right blade there is also an over pressure at the front side and an under pressure at the back side which results in a drag force DR. However, DL is much larger than DR because the drag coefficient of a half hollow cylinder with the hollow side facing the wind is much larger than the drag coefficient of a half hollow cylinder with the convex side facing the wind. The starting torque at stand still position is therefore determined by the difference in between DL and DR.

If the blade starts rotating, the relative wind speed in between the left blade and the wind speed decreases which result in decrease of DL. The relative wind speed in between the right blade and the wind speed increases which result in increase of DR. At a certain rotational speed, DL becomes equal to DR and then the rotor runs unloaded at the unloaded tip speed ratio. In KD 416 I have found that the unloaded tip speed ratio is about 0.32 but this is for half hollow spheres moving linear. I think that one finds about the same value for halve hollow cylinders moving linear. But in figure 1, the half hollow cylinders are rotating and then I think that the unloaded speed ratio is 0.32 at the heart of the cup. The tip has the double radius as the heart, so the unloaded tip speed ratio will be about 0.64 for the drag machine as given in figure 1.

Figure. 2 for a non rotating blade. Similar to figure 1, a large drag force DL will work on the left blade and a small drag force DR will work on the right blade. However, the possitive pressure at the front side of the left blade and the negative pressure at the back side of the right blade results in an air flow through the rotor with a relative wind speed W. This relative wind speed W results in an extra lift force LL on the left blade and an extra lift force LR on the right blade. Both extra lift forces result in a postive torque! The starting torque of the Savonious rotor is therefore much larger than for the drag machine.

If a Savonious rotor starts rotating DL decreases and DR increases just as with a drag machine but the two extra lift forces make that a Savonious rotor has a much higher Cp, a much higher optimum tip speed ratio and a much higher unloaded tip speed ratio than a pure drag machine. This explains also how it is possible that the unloaded tip speed ratio of a Savonious rotor can be larger than 1.

So for a Savonious rotor the air flow through the rotor is guided everywhere by the two blades. I don't say that a half hollow cylinder results in the optimum geometry of the blades. May be it is better to use a half hollow ellips or whatever other shape but it is necessary that the flow is guided as long as possible.  In figure 2 it can be seen that the cross sectional area of the channel in between the blades is decreasing resulting in increase of the speed in the centre.

For a squirrel cage rotor there is a large empty space in the centre and so the flow is expanding a lot resulting in a strong reduction of the speed. If the blades have blade angles as shown if the photo of the spherical squirral case rotor, they will have the completely wrong position for a flow which wants to leave the empty space in the centre so I think that the flow through the rotor will be low and then the rotor works mainly as a drag machine. The positive aspect of any drag machine is that the torque is maximal at stand still position. So a drag machine is an easy starter but the maximum Cp is very low.

« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 01:54:08 PM by Adriaan Kragten »

MagnetJuice

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #133 on: September 08, 2019, 04:13:44 AM »
Adriaan, this is the blade configuration that I want to use.



And I could place another set at the top at 90 degrees to the bottom one.

Ed
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CraigM

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #134 on: September 08, 2019, 10:51:48 AM »
Adriaan,

Great explanation of the Savonious rotor! I have to admit I sometimes get lost when reading your KD reports... I have to read and re-read several times... hope I'm not the only one  :-\

This was a very well written reply and easy to visualize the fluid dynamics involved.

Thank you,
CM
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Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #135 on: September 08, 2019, 11:16:22 AM »
Adriaan, this is the blade configuration that I want to use.

(Attachment Link)

And I could place another set at the top at 90 degrees to the bottom one.

Ed

I don't understand why you have the bulge in the curve of the blade. The lift force is created by the centrifugal force needed to bend the flow to the right when it is at the left side of the rotor and to bend it to the left when it is at the right side of the rotor. But when you make a bulge in the curve, the flow will change direction when it is close to that bulge. So then the lift will work in the wrong direction. It isn't necessary that the bending radius is constant but it should not become negative. It seems OK to me that the bending radius is large in the centre such that the flow passes in between two almost parallel sheets.

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #136 on: September 08, 2019, 11:53:22 AM »
Adriaan,

Great explanation of the Savonious rotor! I have to admit I sometimes get lost when reading your KD reports... I have to read and re-read several times... hope I'm not the only one  :-\


Thank you,
CM

I will never say that the aerodynamic theory of wind turbines is simple. I always try to explain things as simple as possible but sometimes even the simplest way is difficult to follow, especilally if you have no technical background. The theory of drag machines as given in KD 416 is the simplest aerodynamic theory. Next follows the theory of horizontal axis wind turbines as given in KD 35. The theory of Darrieus rotors as given in KD 601 is the most complex aerodynamic theory as the angle of attack varies continuously during a revolution. It is very difficult to understand KD 601 if you havn't understood KD 35. So you should study KD 35 first and also answer all questions given in KD 196 before you start with KD 601.

I own a book about aerodynamics of wind turbines written for a Phd degree and I understand absolutely nothing of it as it is full with differential equations. I am a mechanical enigineer on bachelor level and never studied aerodynamics on a fundamental level but I know just enough of it. The way how the aerodynamics of HAWT's is presented in KD 35 gives a limited insight in what is really happening and for the most complex formulas I don't give the derivation. But it gives a practical method to design a rotor with good characteristics and I have used this report in many wind energy courses which I have given in developing countries. Even there, people understand how to work with it but learning how to design a rotor and to derive its characteristics, takes about a week. So if you don't give up, finally you will understand everything.

I always advice to start with the note: "Sequence of KD-reports for self-study" which you find at the top of the menu KD-reports on my website: www.kdwindturbines.nl
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 02:00:31 PM by Adriaan Kragten »

MagnetJuice

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #137 on: September 09, 2019, 12:25:25 AM »
Adriaan, that was a nice interaction between you and Craig, and your explanations were clear. I want to tell you that you are an asset to the DIY wind community. Thank you for making your reports available to the public.

I don't understand why you have the bulge in the curve of the blade.

The blade that I showed in the image above, I created by tracing this image from the original 2005 Report.



You can find the full Report here:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4d6a/59a063240846cfe5b2ec0e35e90ccac1fb74.pdf

They undertook that study to improve the efficiency of the original Benesh blade concerning torque. It doesn't say anything about improving lift. They claimed that by optimizing the original Benesh blade using Computational Fluid Dynamics software they were able improve the torque coefficient by 27%. That increase in efficiency was obtained with no overlap on the two blades; unlike the image that I posted that has overlap.

I believe that the optimized blade would be ideal for what I want to use it for, which is to help the H-Darrieus turbine to start spinning at a lower wind speed. For my application, higher torque from the Savonius-like device would be more beneficial than lift. I think that once the H-Darrieus is spinning and the wind speed has increased, the lift or torque of the Savonius-like device at the center of the windmill is inconsequential.

Like I said, I will build and test the Savonius-like device by itself first. I will build it in such a way that it will be easy to change the position and curves of the blades. By doing that, I will be able to find the best blade configuration for my application. In addition, after I attach the other three blades to the outside of the windmill, I will still be able to make changes to the blades in the center device if necessary.

Ed
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 01:19:50 AM by MagnetJuice »
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Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #138 on: September 09, 2019, 03:39:40 AM »
The shape as given in the figure "Original Benesh" seems logic to me if there is no thick pipe in the centre of the rotor. But with a thick pipe in the centre, the cross sectional area of the channel is reduced and this reduction can be compensated by an outwards bulge in the blade at the position of the pipe. So an inwards bulge is just the opposite of what seems logic to me. However, an inwards bulge can be caused at by an outwards bulge at the position of the pipe. Another point is that making of a blade with a smooth change of the bending radius seems rather easy but making of a blade with a specific bulge is difficult.

The lift is caused by the centrifugal force needed to curve the flow. The centrifugal force is proportional to the square of the relative wind speed W. The relative wind speed increases to the centre because the cross sectional area of the channel decreases. This makes it logic that the bending radius of the blade increases if you come closer to the centre.

MattM

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #139 on: September 09, 2019, 07:30:33 AM »
So far most of the talk is centered on the X and Z planes, but what about the Y-plane?  (In CAD/3D work the Z-plane runs front-back, X-plane right-left, and Z-plane up-down)

How tall is the optimal VAWT?

Surely, the benefit of a taller VAWT should be some kind of linear growth * Lenz law coefficient.  I cannot imagine a zero Z-plane parameter is optimal.

Magnet Juice-

Your squirrel cage is the roof vent type.  The typical roof installation involves venting through the eaves to the ridge.  The underside of the roof builds pressure as air moves up against the bottom side eaves, forcing air out the ridge and vents.  So that kind of closed-top vent really relies a lot on being installed on a roof to turn.  The shape of those vents is also half spherical.  When I think of a squirrel cage then I'm picturing a cylinder.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 01:29:32 PM by MattM »

MagnetJuice

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #140 on: September 09, 2019, 11:11:40 PM »
Matt, I don't have answers about the X Y and Z planes. Maybe someone else can comment on that. The height of the VAWT that I am building is restricted by space and by the availability of parts.

Concerning the squirrel cage, you are right. The roof vent is not a true squirrel cage, but it was the only thing that I had. And because they are similar and both turn with the wind, I used it to do a rudimentary test on torque. The test was useful to me.

I am always experimenting with different things; maybe I will do a test with a real squirrel cage in the future. I have found out that it is better to do your own tests if you are able to, because it is becoming increasingly difficult to find credible information on the internet nowadays.

Here is one example of what I mean. I found the following information on a paper published by The International Journal of Scientific Research in Computer Science, Engineering and Information Technology. On the front page of their website, they have the following statement:

To maintain a high-quality journal, manuscripts that appear in the IJSRCSEIT Articles section have been subjected to a rigorous review process.

Here is an excerpt from that article:

Savonius wind turbines

These are the turbines having the simplest design and easiest operation. This turbine runs on the drag principle. Since it uses drag principle to rotate and generate the electricity output, there will the case of turbulence in the turbine. Theis turbulence does nothing but reduces the efficiency of the turbine. So the fact that savonius type vertical axis wind turbines works on drag principle, makes them less efficient than the other vertical axis wind turbines or horizontal axis wind turbines.


And in the next paragraph it says this:

(The Darrieus wind turbines) has lower efficiency than the savonius wind turbines.


Articles have been subjected to a rigorous review process? I don't think so. I have found many articles and papers similar to that in other “prestigious” Journals.

I placed that article in a folder that I have named, GARBAGE INFO.

Ed
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 11:39:06 PM by MagnetJuice »
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MagnetJuice

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #141 on: September 10, 2019, 12:25:17 AM »
I don't know much about aerodynamics so I can only go by intuition.



I think that the large volume of air entering the turbine (blue arrows) increases in pressure and speed as it is squeezed when it enters the narrower passage. The red section has a greater velocity, then deep purple hits the inwards bulge and gets deflected in the direction of the returning blade giving it an extra push. I think that is why the optimized blade is 27% more efficient than the original Benesh.

I could be wrong on this, but it makes sense to me.

Ed
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MattM

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #142 on: September 10, 2019, 12:56:16 AM »
My intuition tells me a lever is best pushed on the end of a long arm. :)

I kind of theorized from observation that closing off the inner part of a VAWT makes the air flow around it.  Unfortunately, it also means it has  to push any air behind the blade, too.  I'm not so sure anything I've ever played with in VAWT form was suitable to create power without gearing.  My very first crude attempt at a HAWT got bent backwards into a psuedo-VAWT and was the fastest spinning VAWT ever put together in my experiments.  But it was never meant to be a VAWT and the blades were manufactured out of aluminum to mimick 2x6 boards with a simple pitch from top corner to the bottom on the opposite side.  Manufacturing added a little extra tab of metal.  The frame was made out of 2x4's to get something up in haste.  It bent the pivot bar overnight and I found it pointing almost vertical (between 10-15 degrees off the horizontal plan) when I checked on it the next morning.  It was certainly spinning like a HAWT, very high RPMs.  But it was never meant to be a VAWT.  And because the rotor was offset about a foot from the pivot, it meant the whole contraption moved freely to align with the wind direction.  It sat up on the pole for over a year before we finally decided to take it down.  It was still a high speed free-wheeling spinner even a year later because it had good bearings in the rotor.  I don't know if it would have produced power, but it was a seven foot diameter and spun with much more force than alot of projects I saw demonstrated on Youtube.  I drew the side profile upside down.  The flat side faced away from the front.



testing image should show in the recent posts section. If you can post to inline images/attachments it helps for the archives YAY it worked :)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 04:45:08 PM by JW »

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #143 on: September 10, 2019, 04:27:40 AM »
I don't know much about aerodynamics so I can only go by intuition.

(Attachment Link)

I think that the large volume of air entering the turbine (blue arrows) increases in pressure and speed as it is squeezed when it enters the narrower passage.

I could be wrong on this, but it makes sense to me.

Ed

Intuition is a bad guide in aerodynamics as in reality just the opposite happens with the pressure as what you expect. The law of Bernoulli says that the pressure decreases as the speed increases. This effect is used in the venturi of a carburettor for suction of the petrol.

In my figure 2, I give the flow pattern through the Savonious rotor for the blade position such that the two blades are perpendicular to the wind direction. I expect that the flow is maximal for about this position. If the rotor has rotated 180 degrees, you will have the same flow pattern but with respect to the channel in between the two blades, the flow direction is just opposite. So somewhere during a revolution, the speed of the flow will be zero. I expect that this will be the case for a position for which the two blades are about in line to the wind direction but the exact position will depend a lot on the tip speed ratio with which the rotor is running.

If you make the speed diagram for an optimum tip speed ratio of 0.9 and a wind speed in the rotor plane of 2/3 V, you will see that the direction of the relative wind speed W is completely wrong with respect to the direction of the sheet at the blade tip. So this explains why almost no flow will go through the rotor for this blade position. If you compare this blade position of a Savonious rotor with blade position 4 of the rotating blade turbine as given in figure 3 or 4 of KD 417, you will see that the Savonious rotor must be very bad for this blade position.

MagnetJuice

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #144 on: September 10, 2019, 04:13:36 PM »
Matt, if I get some free time I could experiment with that rotor that you created accidentally. I think that Bell Boeing stole your idea and used it to build the V-22 Osprey.  :D

The law of Bernoulli says that the pressure decreases as the speed increases.

Adriaan, I probably didn't word it correctly before but that is what I meant to say.

Bernoulli law says that the speed increases when a fluid on a section has moved from a region of higher pressure to a region of lower pressure.

On this image, when the volume of air going through area A enters area B, the pressure in area B in going to increase. That causes an increase in speed to the area of low pressure. That is consistent with Newton's second Law of Motion that says that a volume of fluid flowing from a high pressure area to a low pressure area has more pressure behind it than in front of it.



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Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #145 on: September 11, 2019, 03:38:41 AM »
When I was working at Philips I have designed machines for the production of resistors. A resistor has a ceramic body with copper cups pressed on both ends. The resistors were lying in grooves in a wheel and at the certain moment they had to be blown out of the grooves. So we made an air jet which blows just in the middle of the resistor. But what happened was that the harder you blow, the stronger the body is sucked in the groove. Finally we solved the problem by using two air jets blowing at the caps. At the caps, a cap is closing the hole and that creates a force which blows the ceramic bodies out.

An air stream around a cylinder with a cover around gives some over pressure at the front side but a large negative pressure at the left and the right side and at a part of the back side. The air flow in the channels of a Savonious rotor starts moving because of the over pressure at the left side and the under pressure at the right side. However, if there is a pipe in the centre and if you would measure the pressure around the pipe you will only measure over pressure just at the front side of the pipe because there air flow comes to a stand still. But the pipe reduces the cross sectional area and this results in increase of the speed for almost all flow lines and therefore this results in strong decrease of the pressure. The pressure at the sides of the pipe can be much lower than the under pressure at the back side of the right blade. If the flow has passed the pipe, the pressure will increase because now the cross sectional area increases resulting in slowing down of the wind speed. So air should not be compared to a mass of people pressed through a narrow door because people have arms which are tangled together but the friction in between air molecules is very low.

The law of Bernoulli says that for a horizontal flow in a channel, the sum of the kinetic energy and the pressure energy is constant. So if the kinetic energy is increased at increasing speed due to reduction of the cross sectional area of the channnel, that then the pressure energy must decerease resulting in a lower pressure. If the narrowest cross section is passed, the flow speed is reducing and so the pressure increases. So for this part of the channel, the flow goes in the direction for which the pressure increases. This may sound strange but this is what the law of Bernoulli is telling. The only prerequisite to maintain the flow is that the pressure at the inlet of the channel is higher than at the outlet of the channel. So I don't agree with the high pressure and low pressure areas as given in the previous picture.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 06:59:43 AM by Adriaan Kragten »

electrondady1

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #146 on: September 11, 2019, 10:37:17 AM »
can any one post or has seen a video of smoke moving through the center of a Savonius or Benesh type mill?
@ just 60 rpm air must enter that cavity move through the center restriction and then  change direction 180 degrees and flow back the way it came all in .5 seconds :o


MattM

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #147 on: September 11, 2019, 01:55:28 PM »
I think in .25, because it is in one-quarter of the revolution, right?

MattM

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #148 on: September 11, 2019, 06:30:55 PM »
can any one post or has seen a video of smoke moving through the center of a Savonius or Benesh type mill?
@ just 60 rpm air must enter that cavity move through the center restriction and then  change direction 180 degrees and flow back the way it came all in .5 seconds :o
Not real pretty, but shows stagnation of air around blades:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOp9Re8UTKk

Sim of Savonius:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybfFOcBeYzs&list=PL162CCEC9C3C274AC&index=2

3D modeling of a sail blade:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au4-3Gs1O_g

12kW Lenz-style 5-blade:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqllW1dPnEw
10kW Lenz-style 5-blade:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpXrISTABZQ

It's really hard to beat a Lenz how it has all of it's blade on the outer diameter.  Definitely has the longest lever driving the rotors.  They get energy out of the wind from 50% or more of each revolution.  And the blades are very low drag when preceding into the wind.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 12:30:41 AM by MattM »

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #149 on: September 12, 2019, 07:38:47 AM »

It's really hard to beat a Lenz how it has all of it's blade on the outer diameter.

I strongly doubt this statement. I have looked at the video of the 12 kW model and half way the video it can clearly be seen that an asymmetrical airfoil is used with the cambered side at the inside of the rotor.  To my opinion this is a big mistake as now the blade will work only nice if it is at the front side of the rotor. If the blade is at the back side of the rotor, you get large negative angles of attack and this results in a very large drag coefficient for an asymmetrical airfoil. So a part of the energy which is generated at the front side will be destroyed at the back side. I am sure that a much higher maximum Cp can be realised if a symmetrical airfoil is used because then a positive torque is generated at the front side and at the back side (if the blade isn't stalling, so if the Reynolds value is high enough and if the rotor runs at a sufficient high tip speed ratio).

Another point is that if you use five blades in stead of three blades, the chord for five blades will be a factor 3/5 of the chord for three blades for a certain optimum tip speed ratio. This results in a Reynolds value which is also a factor 3/5 lower. For a big wind turbine this might be acceptable but for a small one it is better to use three blades. As the blades are connected to the shaft by horizontal beams which have drag, the total drag for three beams will also be smaller than for five beams.

MattM

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #150 on: September 12, 2019, 06:30:40 PM »
More blades = more drag, but also more effective time the blade interacts with the wind.  A good V4 is more efficient than a V12, but it does mean less other characteristics such as smoothness in operations, ruggedness, tolerant of imperfection, etc.

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #151 on: September 13, 2019, 03:07:08 AM »
More blades = more drag, but also more effective time the blade interacts with the wind. 

This is absolutely not true if the rotor is designed correctly according to the aerodynamic theory. The maximum Cp is realised if the wind speed in the rotor plane is reduced to 2/3 of the undisturbed wind speed V. This can be realised by a few blades or by many blades and for a high tip speed ratio or for a low tip speed ratio. If the rotor has only three blades, it must run at a rather high tip speed ratio and one must use airfoils with a low Cd/Cl ratio. A high optimum tip speed ratio results in a low solidity (ratio in between the total blade area and the swept area of the rotor) but a low solidity doesn't mean that there are air particles flowing through the rotor plane which are not slowed down. The effect of the optimum tip speed ratio, the number of blades and the Cd/Cl ratio on the maximum Cp is explained in chapter 4.3 of my public report KD 35.

The positive effect of having more blades is that the tip losses are lower but the difference in between a 3-bladed and a 5-bladed rotor is very small. The positive effect of a larger chord is that the Reynolds value is higher and this results in lower Cd/Cl values. If a 3-bladed rotor is compared with a 5-bladed rotor and if both rotors have the same solidity, the same rotor diameter and the same optimum tip speed ratio, the positive effect of a lower Cd/Cl values for the 3-bladed rotor is larger than the positive effect of less tip losses for the 5-bladed rotor, especially for small rotors. So the 3-bladed rotor will have a higher maximum Cp. 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 03:38:55 AM by Adriaan Kragten »

MattM

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #152 on: September 13, 2019, 07:28:04 AM »
You would be correct talking the same sized blade going from 3 blade to 5 blade.  By your logic a number approaching zero is the best outcome.  So one blade would be better than three.  Two blades would be better than three.  But what happens as you decrease the blade numbers?  You know the lateral load effect creates a serious wobble.  Two blades wobble less than one.  Three wobbles less than two.  And so on. 

And how much of a revolution can a single blade interact with the wind with any net gain?  For a Savonius it's a smaller segment that a Darrieus.  For the Darrieus it is smaller than the articulating sail.  The Lenz is a nice balance between design simplicity and the ability to interact with the wind with a net gain.  Obviously, if complexity is no issue than go with an articulating sail.  And if efficiency is absolutely the goal, then stick to one blade.

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #153 on: September 13, 2019, 10:15:49 AM »
There is a difference in between a HAWT and a VAWT concerning fluctuation of the torque. For a HAWT, the torque of one blade is constant for every position of the blade if the wind speed is constant over the whole rotor plane. So the torque for many blades is constant too. For a H-Darrieus rotor, the torque for one blade is maximal if the blade is at the front side and at the back side and zero if the blade is at the left side or the right side. The torque fluctuation of a Darrieus rotor with two blades is therefore the same as for one with only one blade. But if the rotor has three blades, the average torque will be almost constant. This flattening of the torque for three blades can be compared to the flattening of a rectified 3-phase current with a rectified 1-phase current (see KD 340). Chosing five blades in stead of three blades will give only a little more reduction of the torque fluctuation.

The idea that the power is increased if more blades are chosen is a mistake which is made very general. I will try to explain why this is a mistake and do that for a HAWT. Assume that one has designed a 3-bladed rotor with a diameter of 3.3 m, a design tip speed ratio of 5 and that one uses a gottingen 623 airfoil at the optimum lift coefficient of about 0.8. This rotor is given as example 5.4.1 of KD 35. The blade geometry is given in figure 5.3 for a linearised chord. This rotor has a maximum Cp of about 0.45 if it is loaded such that it turns at a lambda of 5. Next it is assumed that three more idental blades are added in between the existing ones. What will happen?

If the speed diagrams would be the same, it would mean that the torque and so the power will double. But if the speed diagrams would be the same, it also means that the thrust doubles. This means that the pressure difference over the rotor plane doubles and therefore the rotor will be of a much higher resistance to the wind and this means that the wind speed in the rotor plane is reduced much stronger than to 2/3 V. But Betz has proven that the maximum power can only be extracted from the wind if the wind speed in the rotor plane is 2/3 V. So the rotor will slow down until the tip speed ratio of the rotor is about 3 in stead of 5. But the blade angles will be too small for a tip speed ratio of 3 and the maximum Cp will therefore be much lower than 0.45. So if one wants to use a rotor with six blades with the same chord variation, one has to make new rotor calculations for a design tip speed ratio of 3. For this lower tip speed ratio, one will find much larger blade angles but if one uses the correct blade angles, the new rotor will also work properly. But the Reynolds values for low wind speeds will be much lower than for the rotor with a tip speed ratio of 5 and the maximum Cp of the 6-bladed rotor will still be somewhat lower than for the 3-bladed rotor.

The same way of thinking can also be used if a 2-bladed rotor is compared to a 3-bladed rotor with the same solidity. For small rotors, the possitive effect of a higher Reynolds value is larger than the negative effect of more tip losses. But 2-bladed rotors have the extra disadvantage of a fluctuating gyroscopic moment and that might be a good reason to go for a 3-bladed one if one isn't able to solve these vibration problems. Medium size rotors have large chords and the Reynolds values are therefore high enough even if three blades are chosen. So almost all big HAWT's have three blades, also because a 3-bladed rotor looks better than a 2-bladed one. People who design five- or six-bladed rotors for small wind turbines may never have heard of the Reynolds effect on airfoil characteristics.

Using extra blades has a positive effect on the starting torque coefficient because during starting almost no power is extracted from the wind and the wind speed in the rotor plane is therefore almost equal to V. So using six blades gives the double starting torque as using three identical blades. So if one has used a generator or a gear box with a high starting torque, the rotor may simply not start at a reasonable wind speed if it has only three blades with a small chord. If it doesn't start you get no power at all. So in this case adding more identical blades will result in better starting but the matching in between rotor and generator is much worse if the tip speed ratio is reduced from 5 up to 3. So you might end with a rotating rotor which is still producing no power at moderate wind speeds because the generated voltage is too low.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 10:28:15 AM by Adriaan Kragten »

MattM

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #154 on: September 13, 2019, 02:18:10 PM »
I think you believe I am not respecting the Betz law limitations.  Of course you are correct that fewer blades is more efficient and the only way to get near that limitation is to approach a quantity of zero blades.  You know that is not practical.  You also know going with one or two blades is not practical for the problems associated with oscillations/wobble.  Three is the happy minimum that most people agree on for HAWT's after decades of research because the vibrations with respect to towers is generally within acceptable parameters.  But there is no practical relative standard or general understanding on VAWT at the moment due to a lack of research and the overall impracticality of VAWT designs.  No matter how few the number of blades it is pretty well understood some kind of gearing is going to be necessary to optimize the final RPMs at the generator.  There is no current formula for either blade height or width on VAWT's, which would mean you could zero in on the optimal number of blades for a VAWT project.  So in no uncertain terms, do I expect 5-blades to make more power than three.

One of the advantages of a VAWT is that you can use gearing or belts to optimize the output so you do not destroy an under-built generator.  On a HAWT, you risk destroying both the rotor assembly and the generator when the wind is too strong.  This is not true on most VAWT projects.  Adjustable gearing on an overbuilt VAWT is easier to control than creating adjustable pitch on the HAWT.

Another area that seems to be dominant theory right now is that you can apply the same blade principles between a VAWT and a HAWT, which research does not appear to support.  The side view of an airfoil on HAWT is generally flat on one side and curved on the other, almost like a slice taken out of a teardrop.  That is fine on the flat plane of the HAWT, but it is not necessary how the VAWT works.  The blades of a VAWT work along a curved plane, so it makes all the sense in the world the profile must bend with the curve.  Yet nearly every single design treats the cross section of the blade to be on a flat plane.  Most of the true Lenz projects respect that curved plane aspect.  The Darrieus designs seem to respect that curved plane, too, which is why manufacturing one is so difficult to conceptualize.  Not too many other VAWT designs are built for the curved path.

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #155 on: September 14, 2019, 04:55:15 AM »
The blades of a VAWT work along a curved plane, so it makes all the sense in the world the profile must bend with the curve.

I don't agree with this statement for two reasons.
The first reason is that the camber caused by the fact that the blade moves circular is very small with respect to the chord of the blade. The rotor given in my report KD 601 has a chord of 200 mm and a diameter of 2000 mm. If you draw a line with a radius of 1000 mm through an airfoil with a chord of 200 mm, this line will differ only slightly from a straight line. So if a symmetrical airfoil is curved such that the central line follows this slightly cambered line, it will become even more convex at the outer side. So an airfoil with a flat outer side is absolutely a wrong choice.

The camber is defined in my public report KD 398. I have calculated the camber for a chord c = 200 mm and a radius R = 1000 mm and I found that the camber C is about 2.5 %. This small camber will give a small vertical displacement of the Cl-alfa curve if a NACA 0015 airfoil is curved according to this camber but the effect will be small if it is compared to the effect on the lift coefficient because of the strong fluctation of the angle of attack during one revolution. Another point is that manufacture of a cambered symmetrical airfoil is more difficult because now both sides have a different shape.

The second reason is that it isn't really relevant that the blade moves circular. What counts is the speed diagram for a certain position of the blade. The speed diagram has to be made for the correct point of the blade which is the aerodynamic centre lying at 1/4 of the chord from the nose. At this point, the blade has a certain speed depending on the tip speed ratio and the wind speed. The absolute wind has a certain speed of about 2/3 V and the direction is about in parallel to the wind direction. These two speeds result in a certain relative wind speed W which has a certain direction. This direction results in a certain angle of attack and this gives a certain lift coefficient for the chosen airfoil at that position. So the fact that the blade is moving along a circle has no influence on the speed diagram at a certain position. It will only cause different speed diagrams for different positions. You will get large negative angles of attack when the blade is at the backside of the rotor and an asymmetrical airfoil with a flat outer side will stall and will get a very large drag coefficient for these negative angles.

To my opinion there is no fundamental difference in between the way how a H-Darrieus rotor and a HAWT extract energy from the wind. The only problem with a Darrieus rotor is that the angle of attack varies continiously during a revolution resulting in variation of the lift coefficient. But if you use the average lift coefficient for half a revolution, you can use the design formulas for a HAWT to calculate the chord for a certain rotor diameter, a certain number of blades and a certain tip speed ratio. This resulted in a rather simple design procedure for a H-Darrieus rotor as given in KD 601.

The given formulas are valid for a blade with an infinitive aspect ratio so for blades which are long with respect to the chord. But this is the same as for the formulas used for calculation of a HAWT. The effect of tip losses on the Cp is taken into account later by correction of the Cp (see KD 35 chapter 4.3.2) For a H-Darrieus rotor you have tip losses at both sides of the blade and therefore the blade must be rather long with respect to the chord otherwise you will loose too much lift because of tip losses. Another option is to use end plates.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 11:31:30 AM by Adriaan Kragten »

MattM

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #156 on: September 15, 2019, 01:32:51 PM »
That slight permanent angle of attack is an unnecessary increase in drag, which decreases efficiency.  I fail to see how your opinion regarding your claim of insignificance is objective.  It flies in the face of basic aerodynamics and angular mechanics.  When your blade is closest to the source, half your blade (the proceeding side) is trying to increase lift (by adding drag) and the receding half is fighting lift.  The opposite problem at the 180 degree mark.  By simply abiding by the curved plane avoids this.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 02:17:48 PM by MattM »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #157 on: September 15, 2019, 05:01:20 PM »
The maximum Cp is realised if the wind speed in the rotor plane is reduced to 2/3 of the undisturbed wind speed V. This can be realised by a few blades or by many blades and for a high tip speed ratio or for a low tip speed ratio.

I think you typoed, Adrian.  Shouldn't that be "reduced to 1/3" or "reduced by 2/3"?

MattM

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #158 on: September 15, 2019, 06:59:28 PM »
Per the Betz law you can only take approximately 2/3 of the energy, so I had no issue with him saying this.  My issue is the VAWT works on a 3-dimensional plane around a curved path and is influenced by any number of directions.  Only perfectly linear airflow from a single direction can achieve the maximum theoretical amount.  But we know it's not unidirectional.  The million dollar question is if wind can influence it from multiple directions at the same time.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 10:23:35 PM by MattM »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #159 on: September 16, 2019, 01:02:52 AM »
Per the Beta law you can only take approximately 2/3 of the energy, so I had no issue with him saying this,

I was responding to a posting some way back.  Per Betz you can take a little over half (16/27, about 59.3%) and you get it when the wind leaves at a third the speed it arrived.  Practical turbines at utility scale peak about 75% to 80% of this.

Quote
.  My issue is the VAWT works on a 3-dimensional plane around a curved path and is influenced by any number of directions.  Only perfectly linear airflow from a single direction can achieve the maximum theoretical amount.

Not really - and if it did, so what, as you only get the correct direction for a vanishingly small distance at particular points in the rotation.  We're still talking a Darrieus here (for the main part of the turbine), right?  Adriaan has it right.

For a Darrieus blade the important things are this:
 1:  At the trailing edge, the air leaves at right angles to the radius of the rotor.
 2:  At the leading edge, once it's spinning adequately, the air attaches at the wide range of incident angles at which the apparent wind arrives.
 3:  Between them, again once it's spinning adequately, the drag is low (mainly, the air moves in laminar flow.)

The forward (rotation-wise) thrust on a Darrieus blade comes from bending the airflow.  It leaves straight backward (right angles to the radius), so its entire velocity is "backward".  But it arrives at the same speed (neglecting drag), but usually at some other angle.  So the component along the motion of the blade was originally somewhat less.  Effectively the blade applied a force to the air to bend its path, "pushing" it to the rear with energy obtained by "pushing" it against crosswise motion.  The reaction force from pushing it to the rear (minus the component of drag at right angles to the rotor radius) is what pushes the blade forward.

The leading edge of the blade sees the apparent wind:  The vector sum of the actual wind and the motion of the blade.  Neglecting, for now, any slowing of the wind by another blade's transit on the upwind side:

As the blade goes around a full circle, the wind component of the relative wind experienced by the blade also goes around a full circle (in the opposite direction).  But the self-motion component of the relative wind is always from the front.  So (for TSRs greater than 1) the incoming wind swings back and forth by +- arcsine(1/TSR).  For a TSR of 6 that's about +- 9.6 degrees.

(For TSR 3 it's about 19.5, for TSR 1 it's 90.  The formula blows up below that because it assumes apparent wind from the front and below TSR 1 the wind comes from all directions, including straight backward.)

To get this to provide working thrust you need the attachment to work from a range of angles.  But the forward thrust you get depends on the amount you bend the wind.  (Again neglecting drag:  1-cos(bend angle)).

With the apparent wind directly from the front (when the blade is going due upwind or downwind) you get no thrust (but you still have drag).  You lose power that you have to replace with power gained in other parts of the cycle. 

With the wind from the side (the middle of the crosswind traverse) the apparent wind's angle relative to the blade's motion (and the amount it becomes bent) is maximum, as is the thrust.  (Drag is also a bit higher, but not drastically more).  This is where you get your peak power.

Between the leading and the trailing edge you really don't care what the air is up to, as long as it doesn't substantially increase drag.

Now a Darrieus behaves like this if the blade is short compared to the diameter, so the angular error at the leading and trailing edge is very small.  And if the blade is long and cambered so the centerline of the (otherwise symmetric) airfoil is at constant radius, it also behaves this way.  But what happens if it's long but not cambered?

Let's look at one that's long enough to subtend three degrees, running at TSR6 so the total angular error is about a third of the apparent wind's maximum offset to one side.

We'll position the trailing edge so it's at right angles to the radius, to maximize conformity to item 1:  That means the leading edge is pointed outward about 3 degrees.
 - On the upwind and downwind run this pulls the air inward slightly, and thus increases drag, but only slightly.
 - On the windward side crosswind run it cuts the maximum angle of the apparent wind from 9.5 to 6.5 degrees.  Airflow bend is reduced, thrust is reduced, energy extracted from the wind is reduced, speed of the wind leaving this first blade interaction is higher.
 - On the leeward side crosswind run it increases the maximum angle of the apparent wind from 9.5 to 12.5 degrees.  Airflow bend is increased, thrust is increased, energy extracted from the wind is increased.  Also:  The wind is arriving with less slowing from the upwind interaction, so there's more energy to be pulled from it.

The energy pulled from the wind (including losses) is only dependent on the speeds of the wind on its way in, on its way out, and other energy in the outgoing wind from things like turbulence or spin.  So if the outgoing air is about the same as with the cambered blades, and drag didn't substantially increase, at first glance it looks like all we did is move some of the energy extraction from the upwind to the downwind blade transits.  This is OK.  In fact it's desirable:  The downwind transit sees air that is both slowed by the upwind stage and has a sidewise component added that also reduces the apparent wind.  With available wind energy proportional to the CUBE of the wind speed, though the two transits might normally slow the wind by the same amount (about 1/3 at Betz optimum) the upwind transit has half again the thrust and collects a substantially larger proportion of the energy.  Moving some of the collection leads to better balance and lower peak forces.

But when we look at details it's even better:  The upwind transit (where the wind is at the max) would normally see the apparent wind at a greater angle than the downwind transit (where it's slowed but the blade isn't, effectively raising the local TSR and lowering the angle).  But without the camber it sees it at a lower angle.  At low speeds, where the angles become high enough that the wind doesn't attach for a full cycle, the fraction of the cycle where it iS attached is raised.  This helps with startup.

So it seems to me that the extra expense and work of cambering the blades to conform to the circumference only matters if they're long in proportion to the diameter of the mill, and then it actually LOSES advantages you'd otherwise get from the deviations from the leading edge pointing at an "ideal" angle.

=============

On the other hand, if you abandon lining up the trailing edge of an uncambered blade, but line up the middle instead, you get rid of the extra drag from pumping air slightly inward - at the cost of having half the above angular error at the leading and trailing edge.

At the leading edge it doesn't particularly matter, as the air will still attach nicely.  In the middle it doesn't particularly matter, as momentarily moving the air slightly inward and then back out in laminar flow won't do much, if anything, to the drag (and nothing else matters in the middle).  At the trailing edge the error does matter, as directing the outgoing airstream at a slight angle to the circle's tangent means you've lost a bit of your drive.  It's a cosine function, so the first couple degrees don't make much difference.  But if you want to get that last bit you can do it by adding a camber to just the last part of the blade.  That should be a lot less trouble than cambering the whole blade.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 02:12:31 AM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #160 on: September 16, 2019, 03:55:09 AM »
The maximum Cp is realised if the wind speed in the rotor plane is reduced to 2/3 of the undisturbed wind speed V. This can be realised by a few blades or by many blades and for a high tip speed ratio or for a low tip speed ratio.

I think you typoed, Adrian.  Shouldn't that be "reduced to 1/3" or "reduced by 2/3"?

The derivation of the Betz limit is given in chapter 4.2 of my public report KD 35. The wind speed far before the rotor is called V. The wake around the rotor expands and the maximum power is generated if the wake expands such that the wind speed in the rotor plane is 2/3 V and that the wind speed far behind the rotor is 1/3 V. The expansion of the wake is very fluent, so there is no sudden jump at the rotor plane. The theoretical maximum Cp is 16/27 = 0.59 but the practical Cp is much lower because of four effects which are explained in chapter 4.3 of KD 35. The derivation of the Betz limit is valid for any device which extracs energy from the wind so for a HAWT and for a VAWT. For before and far behind the rotor means theoretically at infinitive distance but in practice you can take a distance of about three rotor diameters.

For a HAWT there is one rotor plane but for a H-Darrieus rotor the blades move in a cylinder. Because of the expanding wake, the wind speed at the front side of the cylinder will be a little higher than 2/3 V and at the back side it will be a little lower than 2/3 V if maximum power is extracted from the wind. Another effect of the expanding wake is that the direction of the absolute wind makes a smal angle with the axis of the wake at the left and at the right side of the rotor. I have neglected these effects in KD 601 for the derivation of the speed diagrams for different positions because it makes the descripion much more complicated.

The derivation of the speed diagrams is given for a constant wind speed and wind direction and for no turbulence in the wind. Change of the wind direction makes that the pattern of the speed diagrams rotates imediately with the same angle as the shift of the wind direction. This is one of the few advantages of a Darrieus rotor, that shift of the patterns takes no time. For a HAWT it takes time to yaw the head such that the rotor is perpendicular to the wind again if the wind direction has changed. 

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #161 on: September 16, 2019, 04:50:46 AM »
That slight permanent angle of attack is an unnecessary increase in drag, which decreases efficiency.  I fail to see how your opinion regarding your claim of insignificance is objective.  It flies in the face of basic aerodynamics and angular mechanics.  When your blade is closest to the source, half your blade (the proceeding side) is trying to increase lift (by adding drag) and the receding half is fighting lift.  The opposite problem at the 180 degree mark.  By simply abiding by the curved plane avoids this.

You are right that it is better to bend the airfoil according to the curve of the cylinder if you want to use the characteristics of a symmetrical airfoil like the NACA 0015. But if the airfoil isn't cambered, this only results in a small vertical shift of the Cl-alpha curve. You will get the same shift as the shift which you get if a 2.5 % cambered NACA 0015 airfoil is measured in the wind tunnel. This small shift results in a somewhat higher maximum lift coefficient at positive angles of attack and a somewhat lower (absolute) maximum lift coefficient at negative angles of attack if the convex side of the camber is chosen above. This small shift of the Cl-alpha curve won't result in substantial increase of the drag coefficient at small positive or negative angles of attack. If you look at the characteristics of asymmetrical airfoils, you see that these airfoils have very low drag coefficients at small angles of attack.

Therefore I think that cambering of the airfoil is not worth while the extra effort of an airfoil with a different upper and lower side. The situation will be different if the chord c is much bigger with respect to the rotor radius R because this results in a much larger camber and therefore in a much larger shift of the Cl-alpha curve. A NACA 0015 airfoil with a chord of 200 mm has a maximum thickness of 30 mm. If the zero line of this airfoil is cambered 2.5 %, it means that the maximum distance in between the curved line and the straight zero line is only 5 mm. So this 2.5 % cambered NACA 0015 airfoil will still look almost the same as the original non cambered airfoil and it will certainly not get a hollow inside shape.

I have tried if I could find aerodynamic characteristics in report R 443 D, "Catalogue of Aerodynamic Characteristics ---" for a NACA airfoil with about 2.5 % camber. So I searched for an airfoil with both the upper and the lower side convex but for which the upper side is a bit more convex than the lower side. I found the airfoil NACA 2412. The Cl-alfa curves for this airfoil for different Reynolds values are given at page 3-103 of R 443 D. It can be seen that the Cl-value for alpha = 0 degrees is about 0.2 for every value of Reynolds. But the asymmetry in between the upper and the lower side of this airfoil is larger than the asymmetry for a 2.5 % cambered NACA 0015 and so I expect that the upwards schift of the Cl-alfa curves for a 2.5 % cambered NACA 0015 airfoil will be less than 0.2.

The Cl/Cd curves of the NACA 2412 are also given at page 3-103 of R 443 D. If a Reynolds value of 1.66 * 10^5 is chosen, it can be seen than the drag coefficient is lower than 0.02 for lift coefficients in between -0.5 and +0.9. In the Cl-alpha curve it can be seen that this is the case so for angles of attack alpha in between - 6 degrees and + 8 degrees. The NACA 2412 has a maximum thickness of 12 % of the chord. The drag coefficients for a 2.5 % cambered NACA 0015 airfoil with a maximum thickness of 15 % of the chord, will be slightly larger but the drag coefficients will still be acceptably low within a large alpha range.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 07:32:27 AM by Adriaan Kragten »

MattM

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #162 on: September 16, 2019, 07:57:03 AM »
Adriaan Kragten-

I see what you're getting at with the cambering, but in the case of a VAWT you benefit from the cambering.  The effects of a flat blade along the curved path distorts the effects.  When your total effects are already at such low potential, it would make sense to conserve those few percents of difference.  Realistically, the person can overbuild the rotor and use variable gearing to make up for those losses.

Underground Lightning Rod-

Yes, we are talking Darrieus.  Air moving perfectly linear is unequivocally the ideal airflow.  Any air that is harvested doesn't simply bend, it twists in a vortex.  Your slowed air also disperses in a cone shape, which means your function operates not in a line but a full circle, because its a wave.  You can clearly see these effects with smoke.

Drag is a little move involved than simple friction effects of the air across the blade.  The faster your rotor moves the more drag losses, which is why you'll never reach anywhere near the theoretical limit of Betz.  The air moving around your airfoil causes a localized vortex.  In aircraft the vortex is used to enhance laminar flow when the wing is at an angle of attack.  In a VAWT its all bad, because it signifies losses.  And you have drag when your blade is moving parallel to the airflow, so you do care about it.  At 180 degrees you care about when your blade is moving into the airflow.  More camber is more thrust when perpendicular to airflow and more drag when parallel to it.

So you pick your poison with your design.  You can only extract a maximum amount of energy from a theoretical flow devoid of the effects of actually interacting with the airflow.  But when you start wrapping your head around the effects of airflow and the constantly shifting direction of the wind, you start to realize there is no way to ever reach a best case.  Flat blades will be a curve relative to the angular motion, which trades extra drag for simplicity of design.  And the faster your rotor moves the more losses from air attached to it as it moves along that angular path.  And because your air bends in a wave, your less concerned about it bending any specific direction, because it's bending in every direction... and twisting at the same time.

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #163 on: September 16, 2019, 08:21:08 AM »


As the blade goes around a full circle, the wind component of the relative wind experienced by the blade also goes around a full circle (in the opposite direction).  But the self-motion component of the relative wind is always from the front.  So (for TSRs greater than 1) the incoming wind swings back and forth by +- arcsine(1/TSR).  For a TSR of 6 that's about +- 9.6 degrees.

(For TSR 3 it's about 19.5, for TSR 1 it's 90.  The formula blows up below that because it assumes apparent wind from the front and below TSR 1 the wind comes from all directions, including straight backward.)

To my opinion, this formula used for the calculation of the angle of attack at the front and at the back side of the rotor isn't correct. The absolute wind speed in the rotor plane isn't V but 2/3 V (if the slight difference in between the front and the back side of the rotor is neglected). So the angle alpha for a tip speed ratio of 6 is found from tg alpha = 2/3 / 6 which results in alpha = 6.3 degrees for a tip speed ratio of 6. This angle is too small for a NACA 0015 airfoil. If it is chosen that lambda = 4.2, you find that tg alpha = 2/3 / 4.2 which results in alpha = 9 degrees and that is the angle which I think is optimal for the NACA 0015 airfoil. During one revolution alpha varies in between 0 degrees and 9 degrees which is acceptable if the Reynolds value is high enough. This is why I think that lambda = 4.2 is the optimum tip speed ratio for a H-Darrieus rotor.

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Designing, Building and Testing a Darivonius VAWT
« Reply #164 on: September 16, 2019, 08:45:23 AM »
Adriaan Kragten-

 The faster your rotor moves the more drag losses,

The absolute drag losses are not important. It is the drag/lift ratio which determines the maximum Cp which can be realised. The Reynolds effect makes that the lift coefficient on an airfoil increases stronger than the drag coefficient at increasing relative wind speed. Generally this results in a higher maximum Cp at high wind speeds than at low wind speeds. This is valid as long as there is a stable flow along the airfoil so as long as the airfoil is not strongly vibrating. Only if the blade starts fluttering at high wind speeds, this effect of increase of the maximum Cp at increasing wind speed can be stopped or even reversed.

The lift on the blades of a Darrieus rotor varies strongly which may result in vibration of the blade which can be compared to flutter of a HAWT, equipped with slender blades with a low torsion stiffness. But if a Darrieus rotor suffers from blade vibration already at moderate wind speeds, it is designed completely wrong.