Author Topic: What are the symptoms of a tail being the wrong size?  (Read 571 times)

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makenzie71

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What are the symptoms of a tail being the wrong size?
« on: January 01, 2020, 07:00:08 PM »
Title says it.  Looking for ideas about length and surface area, and what you'd look for if you have either a deficit or excess of either.

SparWeb

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Re: What are the symptoms of a tail being the wrong size?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2020, 08:55:34 PM »
Usually, it simply doesn't track the wind direction if the tail is too small.  If you tied a ribbon to the tower just below the turbine, you could watch the angle.

To give you an indication of the right proportion, you can do the following comparison:
(WT Area X WT offset from tower) / (Tail Area X Tail distance from tower) < 2

So using mine as an example...

Rotor Diameter = 10 feet
Rotor Area = pi/4*10^2 = 79 square feet
offset from tower = 8 inches = 0.75 feet
79 square feet X  0.75 feet = 59 feet "cubed"

Tail Area = 4 feet x 2 feet = 8 square feet
Tail vane center to tower = 4 feet
8 square feet X 4 feet = 32 feet "cubed"

The ratio is pretty good [ 59 / 32 = 1.85 < 2 ]
It is definitely true that my turbine doesn't track the wind perfectly, but it is close enough in all moderate winds that I typically have here.

There's more to consider if the tail is supposed to fold and furl.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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makenzie71

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Re: What are the symptoms of a tail being the wrong size?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2020, 09:05:30 PM »
What if you exceed that factor of 2?

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: What are the symptoms of a tail being the wrong size?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2020, 03:39:54 AM »
The required vane geometry depends on the vane blade area, the length of the vane arm, the aspect ratio of the vane blade and very much on the position of the vane with respect to the wake of the rotor. As the main goal of a vane blade is to keep the rotor perpendicular to the wind, it must be able to overcome the friction moment of the head bearings. This friction moment depends very much on choice made for the head bearings. For all my VIRYA wind turbines I have used INA Permaglide bearings with a bronze bush and an inside Teflon coating running against a stainless steel shaft. These bearings have a low friction coefficient and can have a high pressure. They are also not sensible for water. So one can use a rather small diameter of the head pin and the friction moment is therefore rather low. The friction moment of ball bearings is even lower but these bearings have a much larger outer diameter and so the required head bearing housing is much larger. They also have to be protected against the penetration of water.

The moment of the vane blade increases about proportional to the angle of attack and increases also proportional to V^2. So the required angle of attack to get a certain moment increases strongly when the wind speed is lower. There is always a wind speed below which the rotor isn't turned in the wind. This wind speed should lay lower than the cut-in wind speed of the rotor. The wind speed in the rotor wake can be less than halve the undisturbed wind speed, so a vane blade which is placed outside the rotor wake can be much smaller than a vane blade which is placed in the rotor wake.

The normal coefficient Cn of a vane blade depends on the angle of attack alfa and on the aspect ratio. In my public report KD 551, Cn-alfa curves are given for five different aspect ratios (ratio in between the height and the width). The advantage of a square vane blade is that it stalls only at an angle of attack of more than 40° and that the maximum Cn value is rather high (about 1.6).

SparWeb

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Re: What are the symptoms of a tail being the wrong size?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2020, 02:00:46 AM »
"2" is a guideline... remember the line from pirates of the carribean...

As a builder, before finishing the turbine you might have picked a diameter and the offset from the tower, but the tail size and dimensions aren't figured out yet.  So that ratio gets you a starting point for a well-proportioned tail. What Adriaan adds is essential to getting the furling to work and having a response to the wind veering north and south.  My ratio only works for "typical" turbines.  Do something extreme and it won't help as much.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: What are the symptoms of a tail being the wrong size?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2020, 02:44:34 AM »
What I have explained in my previous post is only true if the vane is only used to keep the rotor perpendicular to the wind at low wind speeds. If the vane is a part of a safety system which turns the rotor out of the wind at high wind speeds and if the rotor has a certain eccentricity e, the vane must be that large that the vane moment around the tower axis is the same as the rotor moment around the tower axis for the rotor perpendicular to the wind at low wind speeds. The geometry of such a vane is much more difficult to determine as one must know the moment equations around the tower axis but also around the vane axis. In the reference of report KD 485, you find the KD-reports about different safety systems in which these moment equations are given.