Author Topic: Inverter repair urgently  (Read 1157 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

fabieville

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
Inverter repair urgently
« on: January 19, 2020, 05:37:56 AM »
I have a 24v HF Chinese 2000watt @ 120vac pure sinewave inverter that is in need of repairs. A output short circuit damage it. I analyse it and realize that the mosfets needed to be replace. It uses (16) pcs of irf3710 and 4 (pcs) of 85GT33SW Transistor mosfets.
Upon Changing them I proceeded to try and power it up. So I connect it to a bench power supply that I have 24v at 15amps. The power supply has 4 connections. Which is divided into 2. One set has the positive and the other set has the negative. Upon connection I accidentally connect both negatives to the inverter. Where one negative was connected to the positive of the inverter and the other negative was connected to the negative of the inverter. The positive from the power supply was not used thou.
When i try to turn it on which I did several times before I saw the mistake. The blue and red light on the front came on together which suggest that something was wrong but he lights were very dull. And the screen was blank.
When I realize the connection error and connect it correctly this time the lights came on brightly and the inverter screen comes on but it is showing low voltage input of around 8v with no output.
Each time u turn it on the same thing comes up and you see where the output voltage jumps up.to. around 45 or 75v or close to.that region. And then it just dial back down to 0 volt output in about 1 sec.
You can see the red light blinks every 2 or 3 secs too and you can hear a slight ramp up sound from the power supply And the screen displaying the input voltage of around 8 volts slowly decline until it now showing 0 volts input. Now when you turn it on it is showing just 0 volts input with 0volts output.
 I  test the input at the back of the inverter and it is showing 26volts dc  coming in so I am kinda confused as to why the screen is showing 0volts input. Several sections on the inverter u test and it is showing 26volts dc.

I am wondering if is the wrong connection that I made at first cause the issue now or is the short circuit problem which it had originally did damage not only the mosfets but some others components too.

I am wondering if the mosfets got damage again even thou at first the screen would not come up and now it is showing even thou there is no output/input displayed.

What do you suggest that i do?
Would connecting negative from a power supply to the inverter positive and negative cause a issue like reverse polarity even thou the positive from the power supply was not used.
Please help me out someone I really want to fix this as my system is currently down now.
Your help would be greatly appreciated.

clockmanFRA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
  • Country: fr
    • Renewable Energy creation
Re: Inverter repair urgently
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2020, 11:17:05 AM »
Its a bit unfair to expect folk here to repair your Inverter without some serious information, full schematics, full photos of the PCBs both sides etc, Inverter repairs are not easy.

The HF types, (without a toroid), have many drawbacks, it will do what it can do and no more. Go over the rated so called power rating ie 2000w and it will fail. Surge is also limited.

A HF type is all FETs and if a FET fails the gate is the last to fail.

Here below ..... is a copy of my OzInverter build manual from the tech section, by a good clever engineer in Australia.

"‘Warpspeeds’ comments on limitations of HF (high Frequency) Inverters.
“If you build say a 2Kw high frequency switching power supply to first generate a high dc voltage, and then use PWM to generate a sine wave from that high dc voltage, you are always going to be limited by that 2Kw dc to dc converter.
You cannot suddenly draw 3Kw from it to supply some momentary power surge. There will only ever be 2Kw of dc available.
Now a great steel lump of a transformer driven with PWM straight from a battery is only limited in power by heating of the wire in the transformer, and by the maximum safe current capacity of the mosfets driving that transformer.
Although constant continuous long term power output may still be limited to 2Kw (in this example) you could draw short term power surges of multiples of 2Kw for very short periods without any problem at all.
If you want an inverter that has some real peak surge  load grunt, a big lump of iron for the transformer core has all the advantages for a practical inverter.”

‘Warpspeed’ on a Chinese G…..l    brand of High Frequency Inverters.

“A High frequency Inverter ……………..It’s the crappy high frequency type that uses five small dc to dc converters in parallel to generate several hundred volts of dc, and then turns that into a modified sine wave. It’s all very highly stressed with light duty parts, and just looking at it the advertised power rating is just a complete total joke.

High frequency inverters are rather fragile and very prone to blowing up. Not necessarily G…..l, but high frequency inverters in general are definitely best avoided.

Much better are the larger transformer inverters, even the modified sinewave types.   Better still are the PWM pure sine wave transformer inverters, but all that "goodness" comes at very great extra cost, size, and weight.

A high frequency inverter takes some low voltage dc (12v for G…..l) and generates high voltage dc, usually about 340 volts. It does that with a high frequency switching supply, the G…..l runs about 40Khz, all fairly typical.
Now that is the problem right there. If your switching power supply is designed to deliver 1Kw of power, that is its maximum. It cannot suddenly supply a peak power of 1.1Kw, or 3Kw or 5Kw for a second or two.

Many loads, in fact most loads have high inrush currents when initially switched on, and a high frequency inverter has absolutely zero short term overload capacity, despite what it claims on the front of the inverter.
So you take your 99,000 watt inverter that has a surge capacity of a gazillion watts and plug in one of your power tools pull the trigger, and the smoke escapes from the inverter. Happens all the time...

Now a transformer inverter has a vastly higher overload capacity. It has multiple huge mosfets to ensure low conduction losses, but that also provide massive short term overload capacity. The large transformer and heatsinks can absorb a lot of flash heat, so the inverter will not complain too much about short term overloads.

Now a tiny high frequency switching power supply will have much smaller parts, and just cannot absorb the same type of short term overloads without going bang. Much more stressed, far more fragile. Just a toy really and best avoided for serious usage.”
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

Mary B

  • Administrator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
Re: Inverter repair urgently
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2020, 05:48:33 PM »
Follow the input wires to the circuit board, see if there are any burnt traces, then look for a diode in line or across the power leads that may be open(inline) or shorted(across the input). Beyond that not a clue because I would need the inverter in front of me on my electronic repair bench to go deeper.

fabieville

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
Re: Inverter repair urgently
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2020, 05:46:29 AM »
i check the diodes at the input stage and even desolder all the fets and there is still a short circuit existing on the input battery connection.
any ideas guys as to what else could be causing the shorts?

Mary B

  • Administrator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
Re: Inverter repair urgently
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2020, 05:58:30 PM »
Reverse voltage diode across the power leads, could be circuit board mounted could be free floating... when they fail they typically fail shorted.