An Proto-Teach Éireannach

[Scruff]

14A on the lights??

12volt Bruce. Not mine by the way..that's a PR pic. €500 meter...I'm not biting.

I can use 90kVA on lights if you give me enough dosh.

[DamonHD]

Do not look at Scruff's lighting with remaining eye...

[Scruff]

Lol!

Yurp we have them too for the telly.
Yer supposed to put them behind things because they're weapons if the lense is exposed.





You know why artificial ligthning never strikes the same place twice?

Because nobody will hire you a generator after you fire the first one up!

[Scruff]

Small job day. I started setting up for the MPPT vs PWM title match.

Clean fight, canditates are same brand, same algorithm, same charge profile.



Batteries are isolated; same age, same discharge (not isolated because they just did an endurance test in a bigger pack) & have always been in the same pack.
Them Wing AGMs

Identical Solar Panels



30 Cell with a Vmp near identical to a 24V Lead Acid Maximum Power Point after cable losses.
These are getting harder to find these days.
It's all going 40Voc



Something was amiss...
...my batteries had funny voltages...uh oh!

The bank was 24.4v
My candidates were a 12.8v - 11.8V split ....oh bottom!

You may have noticed certain anorak tendencies about me.
How's he balancing 200Ah 3 year old gel cells with 10 year old 125Ah AGM Cells? I hear you ask!
The Gels have 50mm² 1meter feeders and the AGMS have 35mm² 0.7meter feeders!

I also balanced the internal resistance according to resting voltage 12.9V + 12.7V / 12.8V + 12.8V etc
I think It appears this is incorrect. The weaker ones got thrashed and the stronger did naff all.

The doctor prescribed a month in the 12V Wing (get it?! ) of the battery hospital for the runts.



Pairings are now according to matching holding voltage and the remainders are charging at C65.

I have a feeling they will return but not before rehab and a capacity check.

[Scruff]

I've made a new device to help me find my way home from the pub!

I'm near my powerplant when it reads 50hz!

[Scruff]

Here's quick crash course in power factor for anyone unfamiliar.



What it means is generators have to work harder than they get credit for when the voltage and current are outtov phase. Things like LEDs, power supplies, motors etc do this...basically everything that's not a heat source/incandescent. So in effect everything base-loadesque in my house runs less than unity.

Industry gets fined for poor power factor. Residential users do not...it's free.

What's WuPoGs? Pf when back-feeding solar power at night.



Hrmmm...is that so...wait right there...



Click Yes. This'll be good.



Zing.



10% Morah Powah/Money  MWAHAHahahahaha!
In keeping with the analogy of the pint that's like bringing yer own beer to the bar and having the barman pour you the head free of charge. 

[Artful Bodger]

I like the analogy.
Did you see battery current drop as you corrected PF? Thought not.  (holds breath)
And you did read that warning about back feeding without a ENS. Ok, good, just so long as you read it.

[Scruff]

There's a bittov finessing to do.
(Max) Options are
Unity at P0%
0.9 at P100%

Current is not same. Better pf = higher. If I set it to X on the controller it's X - Pf (Ir) on my meter.

D'oh...You said battery current; Same. More powah to the load from my end. More VAr from utility.
There's some superceeding setting won't let me full throttle. (outtov a coupla hundred settings..must be)

Yurp I read the shyte outtov it and even had the diligence to post it....

I really like the way the Swiss don't make conscionable decisions on my behalf.

[Scruff]

D'oh....

Getting carried away there shooting responses from the hip and missed a gag...

I like the analogy.

...because there's beer in it?

Did you see battery current drop as you corrected PF? Thought not.  (holds breath)

D'oh...You said battery current; Same.

Didn't check actually. 
Battery current has a disproportionate increase. (single state low power proof of concept test)

+20% battery load with +10% pf
bottom...I'm not as clever as I thought I was.  ...that happens a lot.

I bet it'll rain tomorrow. I've reset conditions to attempt the MPPT vs PWM test.
Haven't checked the new canditates for comparability...cold out.

New lead capacity noted;
7.2kWh delivered with the poorly 2 x 125Ahs removed
compared to 7.5kWh with a lower discharge having them included and their partners watching them fall.

[Scruff]

Ah...I'm having a wrong about everything day! 

I heart data!

It's not raining.

MPPT is talking names. So much so I almost abandoned the test but I'll persevere to get a definitive figure.



It's a consistent ~20% better. With PWM optimisation.

My Souper charger is not Galvanically Isolated.



(oh you bet yer bottom that's not all my spare solar controllers in the field!....not even half! 

but it has much better isolation (or a higher loop impedance) than my XTM





Chassis earth lifted.

So question to the hive mind: Can I lift the earth and double insulate the Souper Charger?
What's the worst will happen?

Lead round trip at C65 Studer Charger not MS...so it could be worse (but there's a hellova lottov quiescent included in that)



74%


Top Tip #1

Put the Sense lead in the same lug as the Power. You'll use it then because there's no lazier option.



Top Tip #2

Brass bolts are waaayy better than stainless. More thermally and electrically conductive!
However watch the torque...they're nowhere near as strong. The last thing you want to be doing is drilling a snapped bolt outtov a LiFePO₄ cell....eerrr...not speaking from personal experience or nuthin'...

[Scruff]

Match Highlights!






'twas MPPTs match from the onset.
a strong +20% Start to Finish.

Lowlight conditions PWM was on the ropes.




PWM called for a second shield!



Yoink!



Natch!



Fairs' fair new 60 cells for both contestestants!




Little did it help, PWM was further flagging.




PWM soon on the ropes again, not long after!




Shenanigans was declared, and none were found! Contestestants swapped panels and feeding cables!




MPPT dealt a KO blow by 16:00




Out for the count PWM didn't rise by 16:30

[Scruff]

For Sale:



x2



x1

[Scruff]

The Post Test (Night) holding voltages are odd aren't they?

The batteries were discharged together in unison as a single battery (or battery pack/bank as people like to callit).
Isolated for the test.

The PWM candidate is ever so slightly stronger with a +100mV +200mV isolated at rest fully charged voltage. {Edited because I got 12v brain}
Both were in the order of 50Ah depleted.

Here's the Weigh-In pics





Science ain't easy.
Sometimes not scientific either.

I like pudding.

[Artful Bodger]

So now we know why the Germans like you to take a hit on VAr correction. I've read about these wasted watts, and experienced it off grid without realising it, thinking it's simply VA vs W. Or PF, pick your preferred thinking.  But its pretty expensive. 20% battery for 10% pf.

In terms of the mppt vs pwm debate, sounds like we need a hybrid solar controller. In pure technology terms, pwm wins for me as I can knock it up in an evening. Mppt takes a bit of thinking.

If you use copper bus bars, you can use plastic nuts and bolts to hold it together.  Must make sure the mating surfaces are  shiny. There is a reason  why torque wrenches exist - humans are good at over tightening stuff.

[Scruff]

So now we know why the Germans like you to take a hit on VAr correction.

For the same reason I'd like to donate it to the Irish!
I must see how bad it is at 50% duty...I reckon pretty bad. (remember that superceeding parameter I wasn't sure about?!... ...maybe I was full throttle)

pwm wins for me

I got 3 with your name on them Artful! Ship them to you tomorrow? Them EcoPulses are gems because you can program them from the display.
I don't like the "SOC" menu and kicked off about it letting the side down with a glorified voltmeter. They advised me to pony up for a ProStar.
It also has an auto-cycling menus.  Never do that!

If you use copper bus bars, you can use plastic nuts and bolts to hold it together.

Those links are tinned copper coz I'm so posh.
Plastic sounds melty

There is a reason  why torque wrenches exist

...for when the boss is looking?

- humans are good at over tightening stuff.

"Most people who turn bolts turn them too tight"
- Some guy on Utoob

I've an agreement with my mechanic. He puts the parts on. I torque them. Otherwise I'm pulling out 1m breaker bars when I get home. I get him to do all the >30kg part swaps.

Any thoughts on Earth Lifting 2kW PSU implications?
You're the most qualified I know to tell why I shouldn't.

[Scruff]

I'd never let not finishing the last project stop me from starting another!
WuPoG has ~20 small jobs to complete before I can sign off on her.


Let me introduce to you; Leadite.



Up until recently Leadite was the Fleet Alpha.

I didn't get many hours on her. Died at my hands making her go faster. 
In my defense I killed her implementing a mod. that has worked very well on Li-Fi.
I was very cautious with Li-Fi and complacent with Leadite as a result of that success.

She shipped out to a bodgineer for acts of necromancy and then it proved unviable to repair (I'm a born cheapskate  )

This empty case was bothering me.



I could put another XTM in it but.....er....I dunno that seemed rude, they're too classy. I'd never be happy. I'd just want to take it out again to put 3 phase in a truck and I'd probably kill it plugging it in and out all the time. Twas a tough call.



The teeny battery was my inrush limiting device.

Anyways I ponied up for some spare parts to put her right.



 
I gave her a suspension too.

I'm in the process of shoehorning her back into the case.
She's put on a bittov weight.

Rework the case airflow, shrink the ancilliaries...could be a little while.

I had a look inside Bodger. She's not got the same micro.



...but she does have badcaps.



So I'm taking the boards out anyways.
If you wanna send me a chip reader and swing another bat at yours I'll be stripping her down in the next few days.

[Scruff]

Speaking of bad caps I got this for Froya (or maybe myself if she doesn't want it)



It's a turn that bleedin' banshee in the corner off (Sterling Lump) empowerment device.
The residents are running an inverter to power 12v wall warts for tinternet.
Now that solar is on the decline I am advising an efficiency hike to take all the extra low voltage loads off the double converters.
It's a bit spendy but I think worth it.

This might go somewhere or nowhere.

Anyways, look what meanwell are putting inside! They used to be good!



Samxon Caps!!!

BOOooo!
Shame on you!

[Scruff]

This is not an easy inverter to undress.

Nor an easy board to solder to.
They never are...power lekytronics. High current traces just soak heat away.

To coin an automotive repair phrase....we need to escalate the violence!

She relented with board preheating and a 400°C soldering iron tip.
After that comes dual wielding irons.
After that....well...risky business...



2008 vintage...12 year old.
Beat that Schlicktron! Narf, narf, narf...




Someone's been in here before me. Looks like they burned up the output traces. Not a great repair. I'd use jumper cables and relocate the whadyamacallit blue yolks. Filing that under ain't broken.




Wee bittova size difference between a Rubicon anna Nichicon. Both are pretty reputable.
That's the 12v reg department.




Just goes to prove you don't need all them fancy tools!


No other problems found. IPA and compressed air bath. Swapped the stainless for brass. Flipped the fans to blow up not down. I think they do that to mitigate battery gas ingestion.

Is it better to suck or blow? I rather suck! Much easier to steer!


I'll have her back together tomorrow. I might try turning it on after.

[Scruff]

There is a reason  why torque wrenches exist

There's a reason why rattle guns and self-tappers exist too! 



Fuse delete performed.
Bleedin' box heaters.
That'll preserve me capacitors and keep case temps down.



Thermal pasted the temp sensor.



Fired her up and all's well (haven't stress tested her yet).

That has to be one of the world's most expensive Isolation Transformers!



Mrs Scruff was quite adamant that if my antics ruined her cake I'd regret it.





I hope yer watching Schlicktron! I just don't know how you're gonna compete with this sortov reliability and performance throwing pdfs at the problem and giving products away to utoob content makers?!?



I've decided to do a capacity check of my beat up wings while I was at it.
The taxman has me reduced to a clamp meter annan hourglass. All my DIN meters are hardwired now or bust.







Can't complain really though. You ought to see the power bill I'm submitting. 

12kVA continuous with stand-alone reserves and counting...

I suppose I'll read the manual now...

[Scruff]

I've decided to do a capacity check of my beat up wings while I was at it.

<200Wh 

Cream crackered!

Not even MorningStar can save those.
€20 scrap lead.

[clockmanFRA]

Scruff,

Talking about Morningstar..........

Last time we chatted you mentioned about the Tristars having some peculiarities' in its software?


All of my 4off Tristar 45 PWM. 48v set on diversion load have been misbehaving recently.

3 are over 10 years old, all have the same settings.

It seems that if the Tristar goes over its dumpload capacity and shows alarm and the next Tristar steps in to dump load etc etc.

The first Tristar when again its capacity is reached, and then comes off its max capacity, because the sun goes behind a cloud or the wind drops, has a habit of going to Float and shows float even when the batteries later in the day need another good charge.

Basically that first Tristar just stays on Float.   I solve it by just switching it off for 30 seconds, The other 3 can cope.

 Just a bit annoying having to walk 150 meters down to the control/battery building every mid afternoon.

[Scruff]

Hi CM

Last time we chatted you mentioned about the Tristars having some peculiarities' in its software?

I toasted some batts. Pilot error though, if that's what you are talking about?
Otherwise you were saying you had an expired TS and I said I could probably pinpoint the cause of death from the log file.

All of my 4off Tristar 45 PWM. 48v set on diversion load have been misbehaving recently.

3 are over 10 years old, all have the same settings.

It seems that if the Tristar goes over its dumpload capacity and shows alarm and the next Tristar steps in to dump load etc etc.

Errr they shouldn't have more dump load than rated.

48V 45A TS PWM = max dump load of 2kW or less
The loads ought to be isolated too.
Have they all temperature sensors? Are all the temperature sensors matched? 10kΩ @ 20°C iirc. (these cannot be shared)
Or none. Best not have some with and some without.

I would share the sense lines also.

The first Tristar when again its capacity is reached, and then comes off its max capacity, because the sun goes behind a cloud or the wind drops, has a habit of going to Float and shows float even when the batteries later in the day need another good charge.

I reckon that's something to do with time at d value.
Increase the absorption time I suppose.



Or reduce the float hang time.

Basically that first Tristar just stays on Float. 

They ought to recuperate and start a new absorption after the counter.

I solve it by just switching it off for 30 seconds, The other 3 can cope.

 

Just a bit annoying having to walk 150 meters down to the control/battery building every mid afternoon.

Yurp.

I'm no expert CM. Certainly not at load diversion mode as I've not had a suitable application yet (have two PWM 45s on standby though)

Worth emailing them to confirm I would say.
support@morningstarcorp.com

I have them on speed-dial. They usually get back to you in a day and you can trade emails every 30 mins. They know their hardware and offer excellent support.

Willya ask them to include a tail current feedback  to float threshold on their MPPTs please  (because their Li-Ion charging is TOO SLOW!)?
I keep asking and they say they won't because apparently I'm the only one! 

 

[Artful Bodger]

Any thoughts on Earth Lifting 2kW PSU implications?
You're the most qualified I know to tell why I shouldn't.

Well, it's probably ok. But you'll also need to pull the caps connected L/N to earth. The net result will be more conducted emissions, so if you're  unlucky, you may get some other equipment playing up. There's often a 1meg resistor from earth to 0V, which I leave in, else you can have too much leakage through the trafo.

[Scruff]

Cheers AB.

Nothing else ought to act up. They whole idea is the only shore powered load is the charger. Everything else is inverter driven.

Next question for the hive mind?
Say one dropped a D+ wire onto an alternator casing and blew the driving transistor which is now failed closed (working but is draining the battery because no diode) is there a way to externally build the circuit?

I'm thinking of using a relay because I'm prewired to think that way....which probably means I can use a transistor instead....
The sense is working alternator is working. Battery light is not illuminating and battery is running down, albeit it not very far nor long because solar.

[Scruff]

Clockman I had a look in the TS department of the MS site.

Here's a FET replacement guide for your poorly one (if that's the issue)

They say the TS45 can handle 2.7kW to 60V diversion not 2kW as I said (44V)

They don't say anywhere that they can load share. I do lots of things they tell me not to too though.

[clockmanFRA]

Hmm ......

I know that i can mess about with my Tristar MPPT charging settings, but a bog standard TS45 tristar?

Oh well i will have to prepare brain for some learning and thinking.   Hmm i wonder if its that RS232 connector?

Scruff, each of my 4 TS45 PWM has its own dedicated 2.2kW dump load on the dump load connection.
Each has its own temp sensor to the same place.

Yes i have seen that TS45 mosfet doc, shame they dont give a value for the FET.?   And no its not a FET issue i think.

Here are 2 of my dump loads.




And the 2 in the house all enclosed.





 

[Scruff]

I know that i can mess about with my Tristar MPPT charging settings, but a bog standard TS45 tristar?

Decades ahead if it's time CM.

This works well. FTDI chipset.
Cheap Prolific knockoffs don't.
I'd be willing to bet you've a native serial machine somewhere in your bag of tricks though.

Each has its own temp sensor to the same place.

Are they all identical in resistance? I don't use the OE ones. I have to hand pick them when running parallels. I'm curious how tight the OE tolerences are.

Yes i have seen that TS45 mosfet doc, shame they dont give a value for the FET.?   And no its not a FET issue i think.

Copy and paste Shirley?
They often take out the base resistor on the way out too.

Here are 2 of my dump loads.

Should be fine as long as they don't ever exceed 45A load per.

[Scruff]

Oh well i will have to prepare brain for some learning and thinking.   Hmm i wonder if its that RS232 connector?

Don't forget to set the dips to custom. Bittova head scratcher when that's overlooked.

[Scruff]

I was chatting to Sterling today about their lumps. They said they'd do better in future and not really much else.

I just found their original manufacturer for their banshees. Mad. The OE ones have a 20% lower rating and a 300% lower pricetag.

[Artful Bodger]

Say one dropped a D+ wire onto an alternator casing and blew the driving transistor which is now failed closed (working but is draining the battery because no diode) is there a way to externally build the circuit?

I'm thinking of using a relay because I'm prewired to think that way....which probably means I can use a transistor instead....
The sense is working alternator is working. Battery light is not illuminating and battery is running down, albeit it not very far nor long because solar.

D+ is the battery warning light? Pre-excites the alternator field windings at low revs before the main windings do? You've probably blown the 3 diodes off the main winding. You might have blown the regulator tranny too. Rather than artfully bodging it, I think even I would do crack it open, change the diodes and for a new regulator. The field winding needs good control and you'll probably want to pull 2kW from it... you sure it's working properly at low revs.

[Scruff]

ffs 3 keyboards later now the flippin' spacebar is bust
Manufactured obsolescence I proclaim vendetta upon thee!
Who the eff decided Z-stacking a flat flex was good enough? Twats!
I'm going Bluetooth. I've spent as much on keyboards as this entire machine cost.

Er the D+ D for diode.
The regulation is working fine, with-load & no load and has an external reg anyway.
The battery light isn't coming on with the key-start and allegedly the engine battery is running down.
...this is coming from the same people who called me to say that every charger onboard (3 alternators, solar and an inverter combi) was broken thuther night because the meter said so (battery full and meter inaccurate; not synced since install).

The main diodes are on the B+ so not an issue. I reckon it may be powering the field windings.
I can trip it off with a relay triggered from the partner alternator or put a diode on it but I reckon the latter will effect the regulation with the Vf drop.
I must look up the circuit. There's +12V constant one side of the lamp, +12v switched thuther and some other trickery.

Pretty difficult regulator to source the sticker says Balmar.

[Scruff]

Here's an unhelpful drawing...

[Scruff]

Pretty difficult regulator to source the sticker says Balmar.

Ok I was just being lazy...here's one...cheaper than my time's worth.
Did my own homework there...thanks for the poke AB

ain't much fixing 'em they're submerged in poxy