Author Topic: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect  (Read 4027 times)

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richhagen

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A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« on: July 09, 2020, 11:39:45 PM »
Well, I put a couple of solar panels and a charge controller and a lithium Ion battery in a building I own.  I put some lights off of it in the basement as kind of an always on low LED light so that I can walk over and turn on the main lighting, and I also want to put some lighting for some plants as I started seedlings this spring in this building and have the idea of keeping a few tomato plants and lettuce and such growing throughout the year in my temperate climate here.  You know, the trimmings for a cheeseburger and such.  It is nice to have fresh produce not too far away.  I have done this before in a different building, but that was a much larger solar system and used a 400 Watt Metal Halide lamp.  This is just a tiny system here. 

While the battery BMS would kick in to protect the lithium cells, it has some drawbacks.  First, if it kicks in my outback charge controller goes dead and loses its programming and I have to jump the solar to the batteries to turn the BMS back on and then set up the controller again, which takes a bit of time and is not something I want to do.  Second, the BMS turns off at too low of a cell voltage for my liking.  I really do not want to run these cells down below 3.3 volts, kind of between 3.3 and 4 volts in operation. 

I could build an Arduino load controller as I have on larger systems, but that takes a bit of power to run and is overkill for what I need for this system for now.  I could also rig a magnetic or solid state relay perhaps through a transistor and a pot to get it to turn on roughly where I want.  An op-amp would be excellent to get the thing to snap on and off at a set point too, they do draw a bit of power, but for low power versions that draw is not significant.  This is just lighting and I can ramp up or down the voltage as it turns on or off without harm, so I though I would see how cheap and quick I could get a transistor to turn them on and off using as few and inexpensive parts as I have in my junk bins.  This was an exercise in cheapness and spare parts. 

First I tried using a couple of 3904 NPN transistors in a darlington set up with a 5K pot to adjust the turn on voltage.  Even though the gain was likely on the order of a thousand, the ramp up was still over several volts of range.  I could make it work, but to get it essentially all on at 15 volts it still drew some current at 12V.  I could probably reduce that a bit because I would basically need to use this to turn on a larger to-220 cased FET (Field Effect Transistor) anyway to switch the power that I would need.  I was playing around on a breadboard with different iterations of this with my son. 

I though well if it has this ramp up, I might as well just turn on a FET directly.  I decided to try and sharpen the turn on by dropping the voltage from the high side with a zener.  I used a 12V Zener there to the Gate and a 470K ohm resistor from the gate to ground to pull it down.  This draws very little current when the FET is off.  I found that with an IRF 610 FET the ramp up between off and on was still over a few volts.  We substituted several other FET's and found that a 75339P gave the sharpest turn on. Thus with just three components we could control the lighting such that it was all off at roughly 13.5 Volts and all on at 15 Volts. 

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richhagen

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2020, 11:42:36 PM »
I found some proto-boards I had from some project or whatever and we soldered one up.  It would have fit on a much smaller board, or most anything for that matter as there are only three components. 

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richhagen

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2020, 11:45:09 PM »
We powered it up and - dead short.  I looked it over and realized that the proto-board was one of those where all of the holes are connected.  After breaking all of the necessary traces, we powered it up again and it worked just fine. 

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The three parts are solid state and the FET is rated for 75 Amps although that would take a rather huge heatsink I would imagine.  Thus with three parts that are not likely to ever break in these roles I should be able to protect the batteries and provide the lighting that I need.  I may build one with a slightly lower value Zener diode to give a slightly lower cut in voltage for the basement lights as I would like them on most of the times whereas the plant lights can cycle on in the day when there is more power and off should that run out at night. 

At any rate I had not posted anything I had built in a while so I thought I would take the time to post this simple circuit.  Feel free to share your thoughts, ideas, or criticisms. 

Rich
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richhagen

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2020, 12:03:46 AM »
I guess I should have mentioned that the battery bank to which this is now connected is a 4 series of lithium ion cells.  Theire are actually three on separate BMS's right now, two at 12P (12 in parallel and 4 in series) and one at 20P.  You could use this on different systems within the range of the FET, the zener drops the voltage from the rail and the FET then turns on when it reaches its normal turn on voltage through that drop through the zener such that the difference between the supply voltage and the zener is enough to turn it on.  There are also variable zener's out there that you can adjust through a pot to provide a reference voltage.  I believe you could probably find one in an old computer power supply in a to-92 case usually.  I think TL-431 is a common one, so with a few more parts you could make one with an adjustable voltage set point too.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 03:47:35 AM by richhagen »
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MagnetJuice

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2020, 02:51:19 AM »
That is a nice useful little project.

I am always doing a lot of those "let's see how cheap and simple I can get" projects. They are fun and challenging. I always have the parts in my junk drawers because I never dispose of any electronics gadget without first stripping and saving all useful components. I even save the electronic parts from blown compact fluorescent light bulbs.

Thanks for posting.

Ed
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richhagen

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2020, 03:39:22 AM »
Here it is in its temporary home and working to earn its keep. 

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Sorry about the messy wiring and stuff, this is a temporary setup until I build a new power room in the basement there.  I want to add a bit more solar and storage and switch the building common area lighting between solar and mains via a DPDT relay as I have done some other places in the past to save on electricity costs down the road.  I will probably switch it from a 12V system to a 48V system, but I am experimenting with lithium ion batteries on this one as well.  I have a few BMS's paralleled on the bus bars here.  Some day I want to power a yacht's propulsion system with batteries and I need to figure out how to safely build large banks of them.  Rich
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richhagen

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2020, 06:40:31 AM »
Ed, I have resistors from broken radios and televisions I took apart almost 40 years ago now, back when I was a kid.   I should have thought to use an old resistor for nostalgia on this, although most of those were silver 10% tolerance and some were no band 20% tolerance resistors, well the ones I did use were probably 5 or 10 years old anyway.  The 12V zener's were new, well, they were in the original Radio Shack (a store chain that went out of business here a few years back) blister pack, the plastic had yellowed.  I probably bought them for some project or other a decade or two ago and never used them.  Well now they will have some work to do.  As for the FET's, they are likely some I had bought for lighting constant current drivers when I was building a lot of LED lights in the past, probably purchased from 2005 to 2012 or so.  Rich
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Bruce S

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2020, 09:05:21 AM »
Rich;
Pretty nifty. What type of LEDs are you using for this project and the grow light project?

Cheers
Bruce S
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richhagen

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2020, 09:21:42 AM »
Bruce, you should recognize the LED lights, they are similar to what we put up in the Philippines.

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The one on the right was one of the prototypes, that one was made around 2010, the one on the left is a newer variant of similar design. 

The plant lights are of similar design, I have some with 4 red led's and one blue, and others with three pink 'plant' led's. 

Rich
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Bruce S

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2020, 08:36:48 AM »
Yes I do!
I'm curious to see how well they held up to the extreme environment up in Pulau.
I still laugh when I see the picture of the elderly lady who out walked me up the hill with a large sack of rice on her back, and her excitement when she was able to touch that light that was installed in her home.

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Bruce S
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OperaHouse

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2020, 04:39:34 PM »
Good thing it is LED lighting. A FET can really heat up when it gets in a linear region. I always have a bunch of e-waste hanging around I pull parts off of even though I have bins of new.  LM324 or LM339 are pretty common on these.  I use a cutoff wheel to save a piece of the board around the chip as it makes a good breadboard.  Operating these chips as a comparator with positive feedback gives a nice snap action. And they generally use well under 1ma to operate. The forward bias on just a common diode works well as a reference voltage if a zener is not available.

richhagen

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2020, 04:47:38 AM »
I have a tube of 324 quad op amps around somewhere here.  I may build some snap on and off ones, just for the heck of it.  I have the Arduino based controller I built at the house, but I have a number of smaller systems about.  The one here was just for some LED lighting, namely the 'emergency' light around the solar installations controls, and then some plant lights, also LED for now.  I have not noticed any heating on the one I installed though I will still add a heat sink to it when I get around to it.  It ramps up and down with the voltage when it is in that range, but that should be fine for the lights.  The draw on the ones I have there is somewhere around 6-700 milliamps, so for a 75 Amp rated FET with a 12 miliohm on resistance, unless I am mistaken, the heating should be negligible once it is fully on.  I guess I should look at the dissipation as it ramps up and down though as that might be where it has to dispose of the most energy.  All right, you have convinced me, I guess I will walk over there and bolt a heat sink on it, now where do I have one lying around . . . .   Rich
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OperaHouse

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2020, 03:37:37 PM »
Another favorite of mine is the TL431 2.5V amplified reference which can be found in many old wall warts. It switches within a mv multiplied by the voltage divider. Trouble is you have to invert the signal with a PNP or opto isolator to drive FET. That circuit is pretty much all built for you with an old wall wart.

I build power point controllers for heating water.  The most dangerous time for a FET with these is when the array can produce less than 10W in the morning.  Self powered circuits need to have under voltage protection as they wake up. Destroyed a number of 100A FET when these FET operated in the linear region either from not enough drive or going into oscillation. 

richhagen

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2020, 10:26:24 PM »
After considering OperaHouse's comment, I added a heat sink to this.  I had been casting some aluminum a bit back and had spilled a bit onto some firebrick which had solidified.  Since it was scrap that would just be remelted for something else, I took it over to the building where the controller is in use. 

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While it's not the ideal shape for a heat sink, size does matter.  The bottom was mostly flat, though it had some divets and holes from the firebrick.  I filed and sanded the bottom side of it, not to perfection, but just to get a mostly flat space for contact with the FET case. 

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I drilled a hole with what I guessed to be about the right size bit so I could tap a blind 6-32 hole to screw the thing to the FET.  I think I used a #37 bit, though I did not have a chart with me so it was just a guess as to the size.  *note to self: print out a list of drill sizes for taps and put with my taps.

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I tested the fit on the second LVD circuit we built which is not in use and then took it over to the one in use and mounted it. 

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Not a major thing, and not the perfect heat sink, but relatively quick and easy from something lying around.  -Rich
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MagnetJuice

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2020, 01:00:21 AM »
That is the most unusual heatsink I have ever seen. I’m sure the FET is happy living next to that large cool mass.

If you want a drill and tap chart to print, here is a good one.

http://www.shender4.com/thread_chart.htm

And here is a copy of a drill table I made.



I made copies of both of them and placed them next to my drill press.

Happy tinkering.

Ed
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Mary B

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2020, 02:20:35 PM »
There are several good drill and tap chart apps for cell phones too! Really handy!

richhagen

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2020, 09:23:11 PM »
Thanks Magnet, I printed it and will put it with my taps, saves me looking one up, though I may take Mary's suggestion and put one on my cell phone in the future.  Rich
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richhagen

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Re: A dirt simple LED lighting low voltage disconnect
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2020, 09:29:02 PM »
Printed this one as well as it has the sizes and drill numbers for the smaller taps.  Rich 
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