12" Lathe

[SparWeb]

Hi,
I thought I'd share a few pictures of the 12x36 lathe I bought recently.  I'm still fixing it up and tuning it, so there will probably be more things to add as I go.



Loaded on the trailer.  It was obvious that removing the lathe from the bench would be a lot of trouble and probably not worth it.  So it's strapped on carefully to prevent any overturning.  And I drove home realllllly slowly.



Having a tilt-bed trailer allowed it to just roll off and it was easily parked in position.



Now that it's arrived and I've looked it over, I came up with a list of things I wanted to add or deal with before really settling it in place.
- Backsplash to protect the wall
- control buttons needed to be replaced
- starting control lever was twitchy
- chip tray
- Tachometer

I've mostly dealt with these things, now.  I like how it runs and I've already done some test cuts, made a few parts just to see if there are any oddities in its behaviour.  So far it's great, with only one complaint: the relay that starts it in the forward direction will stick ON after the control lever is set to Off.  After a few seconds the relay lets go, but it's pretty annoying to stand there when you just want it to stop.

Still working on that.

[SparWeb]

I could add that I've already attached the tachometer, too.
The photo was taken on the first set-up just to see what worked, so things are still held together with tape.
I'm going to try a different power supply because the power from the lathe seems to ripple or drop out, and the poor tach shuts down from time to time.

[bigrockcandymountain]

Wow that is fun. I have been looking at lathes for a couple years. 

That is a beauty.  It looks like it does imperial and metric threads.  And a decent size spindle bore for long stuff.  You are going to have lots of fun with it. 

12" would turn a rotor for a huge motor conversion.  Probably 30hp or more. Just saying...

[mbouwer]

Very nice lathe.
I am sure we will also see that reflected in your creativity.

[Scruff]

Blimey SparWeb!

Someday I hope I have a workshop that shiney if I didn't just whack a table in the middle of it and start the first project I can reach.
Can I call around next week to borrow a trolley jack? 

[SparWeb]

...12" would turn a rotor for a huge motor conversion.  Probably 30hp or more. Just saying...

What?  I'm shocked!  Never crossed my mind... 


This is more of an addiction than a solution to anything.  Now that I have a lathe and I start thinking in a new way about things I want to make...  it just makes me want a milling machine... and a press-brake...  and a surface grinder... and, and, and... 

It will do me and my pocketbook no good for you all to be egging me on like this 

[Scruff]

Ah the old...so I bought an oscilloscope trap. Now I need a function generator, anna bench power supply, anna load centre.

Welding is the same.

...and hydraulics..

...and pneumatics...

..and mechanics...

...

[tanner0441]

Hi

With the relay problem I had something similar a few years ago and it was explaned that if it wasn't the supply to the relay hanging, or the diode OC (relay on DC). It could be residule magnetism in the relay solenoid try a thin slip of paper between the core and the armature.


Brian.

[Scruff]

Latching relays?!...oh just saw that.

Try a low pass filter.

100Ω 100uF works for most things I've had issue with.

[richhagen]

I have an old Atlas 10" lathe, and a desktop Sherline mini lathe.  I actually wind up using the tiny lathe more for items provided that they will fit on it.  I just got a new 4 jaw for it so that i can be a bit more precise on my alignment when I flip parts around and such.  I keep a couple of dial indicators with it for that purpose.  Handy when you need a small round part like a knob or roller.  Should be fun, I have wanted a more versatile machinists lathe for a while, as I do not have that many features and what I have is not as convenient on my older lathe.  I really need more space close to where I live for my toys. . . . .  Have fun with that!

[SparWeb]

I found a dodge for the sticky relay on Forward:  I swapped the motor wires.  Now it only happens when I engage reverse. 
The process of figuring all that out was good - I now have a complete electrical schematic for the control box, which may help for any future problems.

Slowly re-introducing myself to the subject of turning with a lathe.  Did some cuts on aluminum and steel off-cut bits.  Realized very quickly that the guy I got this from did not know how to grind cutting edges on tool-steel.  Re-ground a bunch of rake angles and relief angles and now they seem to be OK.  I bought a boring bar with carbide inserts and did a few first cuts with that to line it up.  Grabbed some plastic PVC tubing to remind myself of the order-of-operations needed to make 2 parts that fit together... education.

Kids these days don't care about stuff like this, but I invite my 19-year son to watch/help/try out since he doesn't realize how valuable experience like this can be.

[bigrockcandymountain]

  Now that I have a lathe and I start thinking in a new way about things I want to make...  it just makes me want a milling machine... and a press-brake...  and a surface grinder... and, and, and... 

That may be the reason i haven't jumped on a lathe.  I'm halfway through building this shop and when i think about a lathe then i think shaper, surface grinder, press, mill, etc.

Then I'm thinking i need a bigger shop

Happy turning.  I like HSS but it is an art in itself making tools. 

Do you have a first project in mind for the lathe?

[mab]

12" lathe! I'm not envious at all with my little myford 7  - which i got when i needed to make some nozzles for the hydro generator - and keeps coming in useful for making other things.

Kids these days don't care about stuff like this, but I invite my 19-year son to watch/help/try out since he doesn't realize how valuable experience like this can be.

I think kids that actually did want to make stuff these day would take one look at a lathe and go and buy themselves a 3d printer; I wonder if they might be right 

[Scruff]

I was thinking the same about 3d printers. Plastic driveshaft tho?!...3d printing is a neat tool in the box but apples and oranges...

[DamonHD]

Different horses for different courses!

I had a 3D printer, and did some good stuff with it, but have moved on...

I'm not nearly as handy as any of you with tools and machining, though was lucky enough to have a dad and granddad who liked carpentry and from whom I acquired some skills and tools.

I suppose if the tool (and space - I live in a very small house) fairy turned up I would have up-to-date plastic and metal 3D additive printers, and a lathe and a CNC machine, and a bunch of tutoring on how to used them well and safely!

Rgds

Damon

[JW]

Haaaa!

a 12in lathe means it has a 6in swing tiny....

Just couldn't resist. Here's mine its a 12 by 20




 

[SparWeb]

Hey, that looks like a Grizzly, JW.
For a while, Grizzly has supported the long-term parts supply that vanished when Emco/Frejoth stopped importing lathes and parts to North America. 

I agree with the "horses for courses" analogy.  You use a lathe for certain things, like a milling machine or a welding machine or a 3D printer do different things.  There is some overlap but mostly they do things particular to their own abilities.  The REAL power is when you combine the abilities of several such machines.  I spent 12 years prototyping parts for helicopter equipment kits using stuff like this and basic sheet-metal tools.  I learned a lot from the boss and the other guys who worked the shop.

I've been doing without stuff like this for years and it's been bothering me more and more.  Finally doing something about it.

Yes, a motor conversion project is now a step closer.  I do prefer to have a series of flats for magnets on the rotor - which needs a milling machine to do properly.  I don't have the cash for a milling machine right now, though.

If you look at my previous post about the duplicating machine, it's waiting for a new pair of arbors that I can make on this lathe.  I need to remember what I'm doing with the lathe first, and make sure I have the right tools for it, of course.  The chucks on the duplicator machine's two shafts don't hold the cutters snugly, and I stripped the threads on one trying to tighten it up too much.  Before I can do anything else with the duplicator, I want to make a pair of arbors - maybe fit some mini-collets...?  I haven't decided.

[SparWeb]

One more thing...  don't tell my boss...

At work I come across problems that need solutions almost constantly.  Usually I can propose a solution to people in the company and they can decide to go or no-go, and I've had some uptake on my ideas in the past.
This year has been terrible.  Nobody wants to develop anything new.  They may be rightfully cautious but it's to the point of losing opportunities.  In the past 9 months I've proposed a number of money-making or at least break-even projects that would help keep people at my company employed, and fit with an "innovation" policy that the CEO has spoken about.  But at every step I've been blocked or ignored.  I've made some accommodation for current events and been patient, but it's looking like I should shut up about these ideas and stop drawing them up on company computers.  Since there's a dam about to burst in my head, I should do something about it on my own time.

Sorry - I usually don't bring my workplace stuff to Fieldlines and you'll be right to say it doesn't belong here.

[JW]

Hey Sparweb

It is a Grizzly lathe one of the things my Dad did for me before he died, he insisted on getting the table bench for it.

Speaking of work Ive designed and built some HUGE lathes 3 I learned alot from the old timers before they died. The machines have duel axis True Trace tracers. I think rose brook makes them now. The machines had a PLC and a bunch pneumatic and hydraulic components. I made alot of money building them.

At work we were never able to take pictures or anything like that. But it is some awesome $#|+.  If one of the lathes fails they have me on a plane within two hours to repair it. I live in a different state than the production shop now.

[ruddycrazy]

G'day Spar,
                   Now you have the lathe how about making a milling attachment to fit on the said lathe, now if it doesn't have a T-slotted cross slide a few tapped holes in the slide can be put in to secure the milling head.

                  Ok on saying the milling attachment does have it's limitations but if you only have a lathe then making a milling attachment should be the first point of order. Just look online and you will find plenty of tips and when fully researched it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a design then just make it.

Cheers Bryan

[Mary B]

Small CNC machine is on my want list. Some of the electronic stuff I do requires heatsinks that are FLAT and the copper heat spreader that helps dissipate device heat has to be just as flat. Talking about dissipating 1,000 watts of heat in a 1 inch square area... currently payin ot have heatsinks and heat spreaders milled and it is NOT cheap.

[tanner0441]

Hi

The mention of a Myford lathe broaght some memories back. I left school in 1958 a fortnight after my 15th birthday, but in my last year at school I was taught to use a lathe, Myford ML7, I still want one, a Bridgport veritical Milling machine, Starret Bandsaw and a shaper of unknown make, we were taught to change grinding wheels and true them up. Now with health and safety you need to be 18 before you can even think of being taught any of those.

I had friends left school and went straight into a machine shop. My first employer was going to turn me into a toolmaker, that was until they gave me a set of needle files and a block of EN97 with a little hole through it, "Make the hole square".....


Brian

[SparWeb]

they gave me a set of needle files and a block of EN97 with a little hole through it, "Make the hole square".....

That was you Brian!  The story of the apprentice given the files and the round hole to make square is FAMOUS.  It gets told by every shop teacher even to this day.  Of course it could only have happened once, ever...  I never realized you were that one guy that actually happened to!

[SparWeb]

ruddycrazy,
That thought did occur to me.  In fact the first lathe I looked at was actually a combination lathe/mill machine.  Quite small although fairly capable.  The owner had some trouble with it as he demonstrated it to me, said he'd call me back when he figured out why the cross-slide wouldn't engage, and didn't hear back from him.  I'm happy that didn't go through in the end.  I would rather have a separate milling machine.

Today there's a classic 1969 Bridgeport for sale in my town (with all the fixin's too) but too expensive for me now. 

[ruddycrazy]

G'day Sparweb,
                          In my shop I have a German Wiler toolroom lathe and an old 4' flat belt lathe over 100 years old, also got a Bridgeport mill and a surface grinder waiting to be restored. Now all of these machines run off VFD's so they can run off my Kipoint Inverter I bought in '05 and is still going. With the bridgeport and the wiler I programmed the VDF's to 100 hertz so I got double the speed and a few other parameters so the motor thinks it's double the HP.

With the surface grinder I do have a 1/2 HP 2 pole motor and dedicated vfd for it and oneday I'll buy a ball screw for the vertical travel and put stepper motors on the other axis's. I do have a magnetic table for the grinder so when the occasion comes that I need it I'll recondition the machine.

With my tax return this year I bought a 181amp Unimig and had a bit of fun getting it to work with the inverter where I found if I dropped the volts and increased the amps it would work. I bought some gasless wire for it and gave it a run today to make a fruit press and it worked nicely with the inverter only cutting out once.

Got a 130 amp Lincoln arc/tig welder that also works off the inverter and for the unimig got a 5kg roll of 309 SS wire which I'm yet to setup.

Now if you can measure up your cross slide I may just have a T slotted cross slide to suit and I would be happy to send it over to you. Having a rear mounted parting tool is a dream to use and making a slotting tool for doing keyways is a must.

A quick tip for getting the centre height on the lathe, just use a 6" rule and wind in the cross slide so it holds it firmly. Now look to see if it's vertical and if it isn't the centre height is wrong.

I've been using a lathe since I was 8 yr old and I am still learning everyday new things but having everything running off the grid is just great.

Cheers Bryan

[bigrockcandymountain]

Hey Bryan, do you mean that you run your shop offgrid with an inverter and batteries?

What is the rating on your inverter, batteries driving it etc?
I'm back and forth on whether to run the large shop loads off the inverter or a big genset.  My big loads will be welder, air compressor,  and hopefully some machine tools up to 5hp 4kw. 

[tanner0441]

Hi

The little hole actually had to be slightly rectangular. The company IMI, parent ICI and they made brass and copper extrusions for Curtain rails, car windscreen surrounds, and welding rods. make it square was a figure of speech. In the apprentice school the filing exercises was to file a block of metal straight off the bandsaw to turn it into a cube, without leaving file marks or vice marks, and a piece of half inch steel plate with 4 little round holes which we had to join together with a thing called an Abra file, like a round flexible abrasive tool that goes into a small hacksaw frame. we then had to square the corners off so the cube went through it smoothly no slop.

I nearly had my marching orders on that one, not for using a the miller, that was a reprimand, I committed the cardinal sin of leaving the miller covered in swarf and the suds pump running.  You do NOT EVER leave a machine in that condition.....

I made a suitable grovelling apology and a month later left and started on the bench in the back of a TV repair shop.

Brian

[SparWeb]

Like you, Tanner, people who witnessed my early attempts at shop work and concluded the drawing board was where I belonged.  Driving rivets and spinning fly cutters alike I think they were just afraid to be around me.

Bryan, there is not a lot of travel on my Lathe's cross-slide.  In fact it seems to be less than 12" so the swing over the bed may be, in practical terms, a lie.
There are so many reasons for getting a proper vertical/knee mill - I can't convince myself it would be logical to modify or tool up the lathe to compete with one.  Thanks for the offer, though!

[SparWeb]

Hey Bryan, do you mean that you run your shop offgrid with an inverter and batteries?

As a side note - the vertical mills I would prefer to have will normally use 3-phase motors, so at my shop, a VFD will be the order of the day. 
From an off-grid inverter, that makes for a long chain of power conversions if you look at it from start to finish.

[ruddycrazy]

Hey Bryan, do you mean that you run your shop offgrid with an inverter and batteries?

What is the rating on your inverter, batteries driving it etc?
I'm back and forth on whether to run the large shop loads off the inverter or a big genset.  My big loads will be welder, air compressor,  and hopefully some machine tools up to 5hp 4kw.

Sure do my Kipoint inverter that I got custom made back in '05 is rated at 3Kw continuous and I use a 24 volt 735AH forklift battery, I only have about 750 watts of PV and my F&P wind gennie for charging so I don't even bother with a charge controller as the batteries will lap up what power they get. Now all my machines run off VFD's and all are programmed to the max to get the best out of the 3 phase motors. On my big lathe and the bridgeport I have 2hp motors and the toolroom lathe has a 1/2hp motor.

Both my Lincoln 130 amp arc/tig welder and my unimg 181 Viper will run off the inverter aswell but I need to keep the volts down on the mig or the inverter complains. Now in winter if I need to give the batteries a charge I have a forklift charger and I run that using my 16hp listeriod which has a 5Kw genhead.

Now I got a bank of nicad batteries not long after buying the farm back in '03 and with a 20+ year old 80 watt pv panel they have run my shed radio 24/7 ever since.

The only time the big lathe's VFD went bonkers saying too much current was when I was testing that 4Kw motor conversion, I had the 5:1 back gear in and it still couldn't drive the 2hp motor when it got to cutin voltage.

Using the bridgeport and lathes is a dream as if I get any chatter changing the hertz soon gets rid of the vibrations.

Cheers Bryan

[ruddycrazy]

Eh Tanner as a first year apprentice I had to do the same thing with the block, only hand tools were allowed and if any feeler above 0.002" went thru it failed and one had to do it again. Lucky for me I learn to do scraping at a young age so after filing it square and with it very close to size I scraped it for 2 days to get a perfect fit and with a bit of oil the block would sit 1/2 way in and the outer block would be stuck to the bench.

Cheers Bryan

[bigrockcandymountain]

Awesome stuff bryan.  That is extremely useful information.  My batteries are similar to yours (428 ah 48v) so i will give a welder a try. 

I will definitely be on the lookout for vfds as well.  It sounds like they are key for the big machines.

I remember your big motor conversion back in the day.  I read the stuff you posted quite a few times before building mine.

[GreenTeam]

Very nice lathes both of you!
I want to get into lathing also
But, more or less for the building of axles and rotors for my teensy designs
So with that in mind, I think I want the Grizzly 7x14 or is 7x12 not sure lol
Or even the smallest one to learn on first like maybe the grizzly 6x10
I almost bought myself a Taig micro lathe 2 back when they were sold here in vancouver
by some liquidation store, Princess Auto I thinks, but, you have to buy the motor yourself.
Now, I will have another subject to bother everyone till kingdom come with soon also!