New French wood 2 storey Garage, PV & electrics installation.

[clockmanFRA]

New French wood 2 storey Garage, PV & electrics installation.

A 3.7kW Photovoltaic PV, and its electrics installation, that will join my other 14kW of PV here that is also collecting the sun light.

These are UpToDate, Dec 2020, LONGI 370w split monocrystalline PV panels, each panel is 1760mm x 1040mm and 35mm thick. Each has a maximum output of 40.5vdc at 9.1amps.   I call these Longi panels medium quality, makers like LG and Panasonic etc i call top brand panels.

Firstly, SAFETY, if your not sure then please!, please! ask a competent qualified person.
 
This electrics installation is for France and complies to the French regulations, which after all these years I actually like. The earth system here is a 1.5m rod bashed into the ground and linked to the distribution fuse boxes with a earth 16mm/2 cable.  MCB’s here are 2 pole, so both N & L are protected, in France we do not use a common Neutral bond/bus bar, nor do we bond the Neutral to the Earth.

For this installation on the south side of the new garage slate roof, I have 2off used/second-hand 1700W SMA Grid Tied Inverters, GTI’s.  These will feed into the OzInverter created 240vac Mini Grid.   Therefore, I have split the 10off PV panels into 2 strings of 5 panels each, and those 5 panels will give a maximum of 202.5vdc at 9.1amps into each GTI.
 
The 2 GTI inverters will convert the 202.5vdc into 240vac and this will feed back into the OzInverter MINI GRID that is connected to all the 8 buildings here.

If the electricity being created by the PV is not being used around the buildings, then any excess will back feed through the OzInverter and re-charge the batteries.  If the batteries are fully charged then the AC voltage will rise slightly by a few volts and shut the SMA GTI inverters down.
 
 Please note, it is very important for the life and longevity of your batteries, that they MUST NOT BE OVERCHARGED.

So setting the GTI shut down voltage is specialised for each GTI, as its location for voltage drop/droop, and its own internal settings do vary.   Dc battery voltage Comparator circuits can also be used to operate a relay at the GTI to shut it down.  Another method is redirection circuit or specialised battery controllers that sends excess power to Dump Loads or other uses like underfloor heating or swimming pool heater etc.

Costs so far, the 10off Longi PV panels with transport fees, tax etc, $1920 or 1600 euros,  2off SMA 1700 used GTI’s, total $204 or 170 euros.

The 10off LONGI Mono PV panels.



The hardware electric boxes and wire channelling/trunking and 2off GTI inverters gets installed.  That white board is plasterboard over a 18mm plywood support back board, it is a wooden garage, and those GTI's inverters are 30kg each!


 

[Bruce S]

 Please note, it is very important for the life and longevity of your batteries, that they MUST NOT BE OVERCHARGED.


Costs so far, the 10off Longi PV panels with transport fees, tax etc, $1600 or 1600 euros,  2off SMA 1700 used GTI’s, total $170 or 170 euros.

 GTI's inverters are 30kg each!

ClockmanFRA
This stateman is SO so true. I still have the NiCd battery that I pushed too far . It is toast and kept in my battery area as a stark reminder.

The costs: I'm a bit confused by the $xxx and xxx euros part. Are you saying the cost is the same for USD$ and Euros?

Ouch on the weight! BUT knowing what they're doing kinda makes sense .

Looking forward to seeing the installs.

Cheers

Bruce S

[clockmanFRA]

whoops, sorry Bruce.

Dollars and euros are not to far apart, but i should have done a better explanation.

Hmm...  seems that today 1 euro equals 1.2 dollars.

Have now corrected.

[Scruff]

This electrics installation is for France and complies to the French regulations, which after all these years I actually like.

  Ever try putting 10A continuous on a schuko?
The only Distro I've seen set fire was a Frenchy.

nor do we bond the Neutral to the Earth.

What!? How do yer RCDs work without that?

The 2 GTI inverters will convert the 202.5vdc into 240vac and this will feed back into the OzInverter MINI GRID that is connected to all the 8 buildings here.

That's pretty borderline.  Mine is much more efficient up around 360V
A. Bodger says there's a way to open up their input acceptance scope.

If the batteries are fully charged then the AC voltage will rise slightly by a few volts and shut the SMA GTI inverters down.

Haha typical me.  D'oh I must start doing that.

Costs so far, the 10off Longi PV panels with transport fees, tax etc, $1920 or 1600 euros, 

That sounds high. I can get those same panels shipped to me 10 for €1180

[clockmanFRA]

Scruff, ......

The latest French regs is what i talk about, and i always use the French Legrand products, especially for wall sockets and the 3 pin plugs.   Those old cheap Schuko plugs are still available at the supermarket etc, sadly made in the East with poor QC. But me, i stick to fitting the best available, as one day my lads will take over here.

From the Australian side,    ....... "The RCD continuously monitors the Live (Active) and Return (Neutral) wires to see they are in balance, that is, inflow = outflow. Since the Earth is not part of this sensing, technically the RCD can protect without an Earth.
If a person contacts the Active (A) wire and a dangerous current flows thru that person to ground, the RCD senses an imbalance between A and N and trips out.
However, it is still vital to have a good Earth bonding system in the installation to give added protection should exterior metal or conductive parts of the system become live, say because of a loose wire. This protects against fire from a dead short as well."  Note.... the French regs have different rated ma RCD for differing circuits in a house.

These are 2 off the SMA 1700w GTI's and are the old toroid type, love em.   Max they will handle is 400vdc,  the input MPPT range is between 130vdc to 320vdc.    What i have found with AC coupling is that small and many GTI's are best, as long as the dc input is within MPPT range, having larger, GTI's over 2500w, puts constant triggering on the OzInverter created Mini Grid.


Yes i do go inside the GTI's and reset all parameters once everything is installed as the distance for this particular install is nearly 500 meters and even using 16mm/2 cables on the 240vac, there is sag to be taken into account on the AC 240v shut down regime.

With AC coupling and the batteries are full, and when i say batteries i mean anything over 1000ah at 48v, the batteries will push back slightly through the OzInverter on the AC 240 voltage, here i set, depends on distance from the OzInverter, first GTI to shut down at 245v, then the others are sequential, 246v, 247v, 247.5v, 248, and 248.5v..     The SMA's are tight on there parameter settings so nice to work with.
Other GTI manufacturers folk use battery voltage sense cables, and voltage comparators at each GTI these comparator circuits are readily available and have hysteresis times as well so the GTI is not constantly cycling on and off.   Programming these comparator circuits is a bit tricky.

I also have 3 wind turbines that are clamped direct to my 1300ah 48v battery, so therefore i have 4 Tristar controllers that diversion load 4off 2kW air heaters up at the house. These also control the AC coupling by dumping excess if a large load is being drawn on the Mini Grid and switches on GTI's that are not necessarily needed at that moment.
Certainly been fun getting ones head around AC coupling, without all the fancy complicated and expensive commercial add on's.

Those Longi 370w PV panels are quoted at retail price, ie what an ordinary person would be charged. The problem for me is that France is a bit of desert regards getting good/reasonable quality PV at a fair price as the French PV industry relies on registered business only and YOU HAVE TO GIVE YOUR BUISNESS SIRET NUMBER and minimum order quantity.  And France really do have some rubbish panels on their market for retail sales,' fleebay' and 'Boin Coin' etc.    Longi 370w Retail Cost is £97 each but then £140 for a pallet transport and 20% tax on top.   

Scruff i always think of you as a formula one electrical man, while i plod along in my trusty old simple car.

 

[Scruff]

Those old cheap Schuko plugs are still available at the supermarket etc, sadly made in the East with poor QC. But me, i stick to fitting the best available, as one day my lads will take over here.

I'll take a cheapo ceeform over a high end shuko every day of the week. It was the socket melted actually. The distro self-combusted. Fortunately, French distros require E-Stops...tehehe ours don't and they don't set fire either!

From the Australian side,    ....... "The RCD continuously monitors the Live (Active) and Return (Neutral) wires to see they are in balance, that is, inflow = outflow. Since the Earth is not part of this sensing, technically the RCD can protect without an Earth.
If a person contacts the Active (A) wire and a dangerous current flows thru that person to ground, the RCD senses an imbalance between A and N and trips out.
However, it is still vital to have a good Earth bonding system in the installation to give added protection should exterior metal or conductive parts of the system become live, say because of a loose wire. This protects against fire from a dead short as well."  Note.... the French regs have different rated ma RCD for differing circuits in a house.

I read from that that the supply is earth referenced somewhere, otherwise GFIDs couldn't work. They're be no imbalance if it wasn't. If the earth is isolated there's not much point in wiring it as far as I understand. Having said that, I definitely don't understand IT.

These are 2 off the SMA 1700w GTI's and are the old toroid type, love em.   

I've a grey one. I like it. I haven't tampered with the settings though, I'd be curious to see how. Mine kept dropping out when I fed it 180V, it performs much better with a higher Voc.

The cycling display wrecks my head.

Certainly been fun getting ones head around AC coupling, without all the fancy complicated and expensive commercial add on's.

Yurp. It's a universal translator. DC coupling is less likely to end in smoke if there's a c0ck up though

YOU HAVE TO GIVE YOUR BUISNESS SIRET NUMBER

Ha I heart Ireland, I just talk my way into trade accounts.

Scruff i always think of you as a formula one electrical man, while i plod along in my trusty old simple car.

Gorsh, high praise and ironic. I learn a lot from you. Why dya think all my cam switches are K&N? 

PS. Rally not Formula 1, because mud, skids and grey areas.   

[richhagen]

Looks great so far.  I am reminded of the quote from somewhere which the Dan's posted on the battery section a long time ago and goes something like:  most batteries do not die a natural death, most are murdered. . . . .  It is such a true statement.  Similarly here in the U.S. a lot of the domestic brands making wall outlets and switches have switched to having their products made in the East and often from inferior materials.  In the U.S. here have had several 120V duplex wall outlets have the plastic face between the pins crack under minimal stresses.  I have taken to buying the material for my contractors when I re-do apartments here as otherwise they often solely shop on price.  The cost of sending an electrician out to replace a wall outlet likely exceeds the difference in the cost of the cheap parts vs. the better made parts for all of them in the particular apartment being serviced as labor is very expensive relative to material.  The problem is that the foreign made parts are so cheap by comparison that most people keep buying them and the manufacturers save a penny or two making them by using inferior plastic mixes.  Keep having fun building that Garage/shop.  Rich

[clockmanFRA]

Hi richhagen,

Yes, it does seem that today we have to really examine everything ourselves before we put it into operation.


Here is a photo of my youngest 13 year old boy doing his school work on line.  It was taken first thing this morning and the Kiwi cat was first into the library to get the comfy chair. haha

[clockmanFRA]

Scruff young man,

Well everyone seems younger than me !.

"I've a grey one. I like it. I haven't tampered with the settings though, I'd be curious to see how. Mine kept dropping out when I fed it 180V, it performs much better with a higher Voc.

The cycling display wrecks my head."

Before SMA red there was yellow, but grey? is it that schuko make?

Okay just checked and i can confirm that i have a 1700w Red case toroid SMA in operation and this morning in the gloom it was showing a DC input of 120 volts, and yet it was outputting real well to my MINI grid.

Yes, i have altered all the times for start up after shut down, i found 10 seconds start up with SMA toroid's was acceptable.  So very little flashing from those 3 led's.

Here is a photo of the 1700w SMA GTI along with a larger one on my 240vac MINI GRID, they share the array.

[Scruff]

Scruff young man,

Careful now or I'll start callin' ya CM auld fella!

Before SMA red there was yellow, but grey? is it that schuko make?

SMA make, Schuko brand. The grey appealed to me because it's traditional to have all your boxes the same colour and it was £50.
She's a frankinverter. It's G83/2 but speaks Spanish. I reckon the seller swapped donor boards until it worked (but didn't clean the chip fat off it, left a loose screw inside, bent header pins, forgot to connect the PE to lid and broke & lost a light pipe  )

Okay just checked and i can confirm that i have a 1700w Red case toroid SMA in operation and this morning in the gloom it was showing a DC input of 120 volts, and yet it was outputting real well to my MINI grid.

I replaced an ApprenticeVolt Soladin with mine which had many a special snowflake issue like used 30W as a load as soon/as long as the array produced 1W. Or drop out due to grid instability every time you powered up a capacitor, SMPS or brushed motor, It heat derated a lot too.
Anyways...the Apprenticevolt was producing far more kWh per kWp on the array I gave to the SB1700 successor. The ratio improved after I added more solar and increased the VMP.

Where dya plug in the RS232 on those yolks? What software do I use to talk to it?

[clockmanFRA]

Hi Scruff,

I have a SMA Bluetooth Piggy-Back daughter board i plug in once the cover is off there's a connector near the display.  Then i use a USB bluetooth Adapter  a SENA UD100 as the SMA bluetooth board is real crap with its signal output. 

 Over the years i have picked up SMA SB bluetooth boards for just a few euros.    These boards give 9 differing GTI talk to's, but soon get out of range after 80 meters.
 I tune a SMA with my nearby ancient laptop, infact its all the old laptop does, and the Sunny software until i am happy, then i remove the daughter board.  Thats it.

[SparWeb]

Here is a photo of my youngest 13 year old boy doing his school work on line

What a coincidence!  My son is in the same class.  What are the odds of that?

[clockmanFRA]

SparWeb,

"What a coincidence!  My son is in the same class.  What are the odds of that"?

About the same as my boy getting up by himself, without me stopping work to drag him out of his PIT, ! haha

OR,

 about the same as 'Scruff' flying over the bit of water between us, to buy me a pint, and i a pint for him.

Probable that the latter is a distinct possibility.   I suppose the teenager will grow out eventually. 

Scruff, Still got that yellow van.?

[clockmanFRA]

The Utilities, EDF, supply is now installed and operational.   ECO supply, OzInverter MINI GRID, armoured 16mm/2 cable needs to be trenched in from 25 meters (75 feet) away and spliced in underground to my existing MINI GRID cable that goes to another building. 

[Scruff]

Cheers CM I'll put an SMA BT dufer on my hitlist. I'd like to significantly reduce the dropout - reconnect times because I tend to upset mine (anti-islanding protection trip) quite often when I have suynchronising sets pulling in and out or even when I'm supply changeOvering.

So..er.....does that from your interpretation of French regs mean you haven't neutralised yer Eco-supply? Question is electively rhetorical, one answer enables life harm protection thuther overlooks it.

[mab]

Hi Clockman
Can i ask where you find the sma communication doo dahs for 'a few euros'? whenever i've seen one for sale they're £60 or more!

Does one comms module fit them all or do you need a specific type for a particular SB?

I could do with one as I've got 3 SMA SB's (1200, 1700 & 4000tl), paid £50 for the 1200 and was given the other two, so paying £60-70 for a communication module seems a little steep, but as i'm running them into a powerjack inverter and they're still on standard UK grid setting it can be a right PITA - particularly the one on the hydro as the unloaded voltage shoots up when unloaded (i do have a dump load controller on there, but as it uses a triac to divert power to dump the peak voltage can still charge the SB's input cap to >320v which upsets the 1200 as it's too high)

although mine don't seem as bad as Scruffs - I usually have to start the lathe or weld at high power to trip them out.

[clockmanFRA]

Hi,
I just keep a fleebay search for them, been doing that since 2014, max paid £30, min £4 but had a job lot.

Yes will work on the GTI Sunny Boys with the toroid in them.

Here's the installation manual.

 BTPBINV-NRpiggy-back.pdf (1914.7 kB - downloaded 322 times.)

And here is what i fit them onto.

 SBuseforSISIPVusage.pdf (386.52 kB - downloaded 278 times.)

[clockmanFRA]

Scruff,

My ECO supply uses my toroid windings so i dictate which one will be the Neutral and stick to that premise.

However all my change over switches are 2 pole, so when i switch to ECO supply the Consumer unit gets a new Neutral and a new Live.  Yes all from fleebay, but Kraus & Naimer.

All my Change Over switches are 3 position and the centre is OFF.   So turning from ECO to EDF (local Utility supply) or EDF to ECO you have to travel through the Centre OFF position.       Therefore no nasty surprises.   And the EDF utility supply is 3 phase and i have split the phases, but EDF supply just 1 neutral. There pole transformer has 3 live and one common neutral winding output which is real nice.

The below is a 90amp 240vac changeover switch.



I have 9 consumer units here, in 9 separate buildings, each with its own changeover switch and each with its own Earth rod.

The smallest Kraus & Naimer change over switch is 60 amp and the biggest is 100amp.

Sadly I have to think into the future a fair bit, as when i am gone it may be that using the ECO supply and renewable energy might not be want the new owner wants here.  They may just want a utility supply.   This way all the buildings can be as the customer wants, and no hassle for my boys to sort out.

[Scruff]

What I'm asking is have you conducted an earth loop impedance check on the ECO supply CM and do you know that your GFIs are operating correctly as per specified disconnect times and load thresholds? ie. Do your RCDs operate correctly on ECO supply?
The reason I'm asking is I'd say it'd be extremely difficult to pass such a test without neutralising the supply(s).

I would speculate that just because the French don't tie the neutral-earth at the domestic property they must elsewhere and compensate for the impedance with rather large earth nets.


When I look at the invested energy and resources of being off-grid and the associated losses in charge controller throttling, dump loads and over-supply for a rainy day I have to think that for the same invested in grid-interactive technology the result would be a greener planet.

For instance, the grid is my dump load for prototypes & system testing.
I don't need batteries with utility power, I can have double the solar instead.
I think people are romantically attracted to off-grid, I can't say it's efficient or economically competitive...unless you want to live in a boat/vehicle/off the radar etc... then it's a lifestyle economy but the lecky is still very expensive.
There's also the economy in green tourism.

Sure we can both argue that given our resources, skillsets, the price we pay for good hardware and not counting the not insubstantial amount of our time we invest in these endeavours aka free labour (of love), then it can be competitive. This is not exactly (global economy) sustainable, there'll be no mass uptake of the technomancy we call our bread and butter.

I like the way you futureproof it. This is a sign of the highest engineering principles. The facility to accommodate the want/needs/advancements of the future not fully realised at the time of the installation. It's a humble natured design acknowledgement that we can never fully understand the future nor applications of our creations and in the realisation of this making it open-ended/modular/upgradeable is what differentiates fashion from classic.
Option 3 could well be grid-tied eco with back-up. (Off-grid-tied...did I invent that? Can I claim it?..probably not  )
Sure there's legal hurdles and pitfalls to that and the French are not so complacent as the Irish are incompetent when it comes to reprimanding unsanctioned feedback.

Having said that, If I wanted to be legit, I can, in theory, tie everything I have (generators/vehicles/out-building installations etc...) to a microgrid with my marvellous Studer Xtenders and back-feed via the Xtender with some modifications to meet Irish compliance. I would only need sign-off on the Xtender in theory. Wouldn't be hard to get seeing as the average Irish inspector can't tell the difference between a B-type RCD (€200) and a trip curve B RCBO (€30).

[bigrockcandymountain]

I think people are romantically attracted to off-grid, I can't say it's efficient or economically competitive...unless you want to live in a boat/vehicle/off the radar etc... then it's a lifestyle economy but the lecky is still very expensive.

Yep, right on the money scruff.  I like the freedom to twist and tape whatever wires i choose being off grid.  Nobody can tell me not to. 

Just running the power through the batteries costs 30 cents a kwh.  That is 2.5x the price of grid power. 

Having said that, i have kept rough track of costs here and kwh used and we are money ahead by a small amout being off grid. We donate a lot of time that isn't accounted for though.  I try to talk people out of off grid more than talking them in to it.

The only observation a have for clockman is your ground rods are rather short...no offence   We use 2x 3m rods here. 

And your building looks great.  The satisfaction walking around your property, looking at all the fruits of your hard work must be great. 

[Scruff]

Yep, right on the money scruff. 

I was a van dweller for 6 years. I broke even year 4 and made a killing after that until the chassis gave up and then I paid a high price for normality commuting 5k miles a month to work and staying in accommodation.
I can live on 2kWh a week.

I like the freedom to twist and tape whatever wires i choose being off grid.   

Yes Big Rock with that I am inspired to second your sentiments...thanks CM for setting such a high bar for those who follow!

Nobody can tell me not to.

 

Electrical limits are physics defined.
Speed limits are traction and reaction.

Some smoke is more expensive than others.

[clockmanFRA]

Scruff,

Earth tested we require 100ohm French Regs. As regards times and switching then the equipment required is way beyond my expenses and my very old oscilloscope and my old HP frequency counters.

All RCD's here are tested, but not by me, before they are installed.

Regards ECO supply, the output 240vac goes through a RCD inside the OzInverter, However on the control board we have a variable setting for amperage output.   But what this circuit also does is to sense any feed back or imbalance on the 240vac windings of the toroid, infact its so fast at instantly shutting down the OzInverter it beats the RCD hands down.  The red LED is switched on and glowing and only a reset of the OzInverter will re-start it.

BigRock,  Yes 1.5m earth rods are perhaps short but then that depends on your actual ground conditions.   Here its 300mm top soil , then damp clay subsoil for about 1.5m then chalk, Iron ore and flint for about 3 meters, then soft limestone bed rock.

Again its the French regulations, and what i have learned in France is that the Government technicians that visit here just stick to the rules.  As my French Eco Warrior friend Dimitri constantly says,  "Just show them what they want to see, DO NOT SHOW THEM ANYTHING ELSE, they do not understand anything outside the normal".

Costs and install costs are most of the time very prohibitive for most folk if they get the so called professionals in. Here in France 3kW is the maximum amount of PV panels for Grid tie for a domestic property.  However they do have a written down law 'that a domestic property can auto consume as much energy as it wishes'  ie you can create energy and use it as much as you like.

Yes Big Rock,     i get asked all the time, so I have put on my web site a page on OFF GRID and creating your OWN MINI GRID, these are actual costings this year if you install everything yourself.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/off-grid-and-your-own-mini-grid.php

What we try to do here at 'Le Vivray' and why we came to a small old collapsing farm in 2002, is to show that a large property with several buildings with normal family demands and heating etc, can run OFF GRID, or run a MICRO GRID very cost effectively by utilising AC coupling.  Second hand MPPT GTI's are readily available at a fraction of there original installation cost.

We are also following a sustainability philosophy.      see    http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php  &   the 'fluffy bunny' site   https://levivray.com/smallholding.php

Ac Coupling is the main reason i got seriously involved with making a REAL powerful INVERTER, the OzInverter creation.

And No, we don't have much money to buy the latest this and that, as most stuff is fleebay and repurposed, i just await for something to come up at the right price.

I do my best!



 

[mab]

Hi,
I just keep a fleebay search for them, been doing that since 2014, max paid £30, min £4 but had a job lot.

Yes will work on the GTI Sunny Boys with the toroid in them.

Here's the installation manual.

(Attachment Link)

And here is what i fit them onto.

(Attachment Link)

cheers for than CM - looks like I might need a different sort for the 4000tl - HF type.

I'll just have to keep looking then... 

I do wonder if the French system is similar to UK 'TT' system:- The utility ground one side of a single phase supply at the transformer to define neutral ( or ground the star point of a 3ph system) but the consumer property has it's own earth rod(s) - and there's no N-E bond in the property; RCD's work fine as long as the rod's to spec. If the french system is the same as UK TT then I would expect CM to have a N-E bond at the oZinverter, which would make the property TNS when on 'eco' and TT when on grid.


 Having Terre-Neutral allows for use of single pole breakers and switches though - which must be in the live line, whereas I seem to recall (?) CM says they use double pole breakers? (don't recall re: switches) which may imply IT? I have to admit that the only IT system i'm familiar with is for a portable generator suppling a single appliance, but once you have an installation with multiple connected appliances/circuits it normally needs a NE bond somewhere to be right unless it's a totally earth-free system?

Sorry CM - I don't mean to hijack your diary with concerns about your installation - I'm sure you'd do it right - it's just that those of us who do electrical installations for a living all too often come across scary DIY attempts were they've done it by rote without understanding earth bonding, or even just don't care as long as the lights come on when the switch is flicked.

[Scruff]

Earth neutralisation is probably the most overlooked part of off grid because:
It works without it.
It's complicated
It's often outside the scope of the average DIYer
The test gear to procure compliance readings can be expensive.



Looking at the drawing it's not possible to pass a ELI test without the neutral tied to the earth.
I'm not sure if CM either has this and not mentioned it or is only measuring half of the loop. PE to terra.

As regards the test gear being prohibitively expensive for a DIYer.
Meh...sure if it's new with a valid calibration cert.
Megger MFT, Fluke, Robin, Metrel they all turn up for low prices on the used market when they update the regs or corporations routine renewal etc.
I bought a joblot of Robins out of cal date but there was enough of them to verify the calibrations against themselves.

Here's another cheapo solution. (Haven't tried it myself...looks a little too simple but better than nothing).

Artful bodger infected me with an uncompromising methodology of ensuring it's at the very least enabled, life harm protection, it's important. I am my insurance policy, being a cowboy I'm not expecting a liability policy to bail me outtov an incident.
It's a bittova curse when you clue into it. It's the most complicated aspect of the install and can double the workload and then some.

I believe France is TT.
IT is a nightmare, I can't be dealing with it...I do have to on occasion but unless it's a submarine or an aircraft there's usually a better way imo. Most countries regulation bible's have IT cross-referenced with world of pain.

As regards the spending on hardware...psah. It's all lightweight fast turnaround niche application tripe these days, built down to cheaper manufacturing, shipping costs and local economic factors. There's nothing I see on today's market I can't outrun with decade old hardware that's no longer fashionable.

The Irish are all buying Mickey Mouse 1.5kWh grid tied li-ion house batteries for the equivalent cost of 3kWp of solar because there's no FiT and the state is backing it (offering a grant that the installers are pocketing so nil sum gain for the end user).
Efficiency reduction devices I call 'em.
The green wannabes callit soft gridding. 
The governing bodies and people writing application notes are calling them "AC batteries" I sh1t you not!

Those SBs will run 5 years longer than the current generation...but they're a 2 person install and 25kg.

[Scruff]

Costs and install costs are most of the time very prohibitive for most folk if they get the so called professionals in.

Never confuse a professional with an expert! 
Same here. I can install grid-tied solar in my back yard for €0.40 per kWh and maybe €0.45 on the roof.
I got about 30 quotes in from the privateers and twas ~€2 per kWh with a grant and €1.20 without.

Here in France 3kW is the maximum amount of PV panels for Grid tie for a domestic property.  However they do have a written down law 'that a domestic property can auto consume as much energy as it wishes'  ie you can create energy and use it as much as you like.

That's interesting if you grid-tie a "hybrid" inverter and not a solar array. By the letter of that law you're either exempt of compliance or you can peg it to 3kW 24/7

What we try to do here at 'Le Vivray' and why we came to a small old collapsing farm in 2002, is to show that a large property with several buildings with normal family demands and heating etc, can run OFF GRID, or run a MICRO GRID very cost effectively by utilising AC coupling.  Second hand MPPT GTI's are readily available at a fraction of there original installation cost.

Funny what you teach and what people learn from it isn't it?
I adopted your cost-effective hardware strategy and & DIY approach.
I'm totally neglecting the power the property with it aspect other than back-up & test load, I think your cost-effective generator (EDF) is too cost-effective to compete with...I might change my mind later.
I think I'll be the first to grid tie a 3 phase truck though....Mwahaha.

[SparWeb]

Never confuse a professional with an expert! 

Usually, yes, that's the best way to confuse a professional.  Go find the right expert that can talk the pro out of whatever they planned to do!

[Scruff]

"Professional" doesn't mean they're talented, people just assume that. It just means that you're willing to pay them.

I pay professionals all the time, check their work and fix it after them. More often than not.
Got a new oil stove thuther day. I fixed the leak in the tank plumbing they left me. 'effer couldn't have missed it; a cup an hour after he capped off a T he cut with a hacksaw compromising the joint above it.

Didja ever solder a kerosene fitting SparWeb?

Sometimes I pay professionals to repair damages done by other professionals to my equipment and plant.
I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, then usually realise how naive I was after scratching the surface.

[Scruff]

that's the best way to confuse a professional.

Uh...d'oh, penny dropped..

Righto bedtime...I've been up all night reading about batteries again...soggy brain now...

Good one!

..there's me coat!

[clockmanFRA]

Okay Earth system here for my OzInverter and the French utilities.

Had a long discussion with some very highly educated true electrical engineers over in Australia.  Nice to get real information from folk who will commit to a point of view and have actual experiences.

My OzInverter has one of the output leads from the 35kg toroid 240vac linked with a 16mm/2 cable to a very big earth rod that goes very deep. That output cable from the toroid with the earth link i have designated as Neutral /Blue, so we have a link from neutral to Earth rod.

The OzInverter is a Power station and therefore requires a earth link.  All tested and all working.  The Earth link to the neutral is after the EMF filters but before the main RCD.

Remember that the OzInverter can give 50kW surge when asked.

 

[Scruff]

[clockmanFRA]

PV goes on the slate roof mountings.

This system I am installing for mounting the PV panels is called GRASOL, and yes its no longer sold by Wholesalers and the like.
  But all other systems, Fisher etc are very similar but not always interchangeable.

This slate roof is 5.47 meters wide and I am using all the width for the 2 rows of 5 panels.

Each panel is 1040mm wide and each double holding clip between panels is 26mm and with the panel single end clips taking up 30mm and i allow a extra 40mm at each rail end.    Most PV clip manufactures are now about the same.



So i have made each of the 4 aluminium rails 5470mm long.   These particular design of rails come at 4.2m long so I have added an extra 1.27m .   These are the aluminium joints with stainless steel Allen cap 8mm diameter threaded bolts. The underside of the rail is serrated along its length so gives a sure locking to the brackets from the slate and to the joining bars.

The other small locking 8mm threaded units in that plastic bag in the Photo is for locking the rail to the roof/slate upright bracket. Its adjustable so the rails can be kept level and straight with each other.



I always put good scaffolding up when doing a roof. And with PV on rails its a real pain getting a standard crawler ladder to go under the rails and be able to keep pulling the crawler out.   So i use short ladders that i hang on a roof /slate/rail holding bracket, with the ladder footed at its base with a large wood block screwed to the scaffold wood boards, that are in turn well affixed to the scaffolding. These 2 photos show the method.

 



All 4 rails now firmly attached and awaiting a non windy day to fit the PV Panels, I have no help here as the Covid brings many regulations on travel and Curfews here in France, so i have installed the electric winch. Its good for 200kg so i can lift 2 PV panels at a time with a special lifting cradle.






 





 

[Bruce S]

ClockmanFRA;
Is this the same one that you installed all the slate on?
Those look "professionally" installed!

Cheers on the continuing installation !
Bruce S

[clockmanFRA]

Yes its this one Bruce ......   

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