Miller 400d welder not generating

[bigrockcandymountain]

So i finally took the plunge and bought a used Miller 400d welder.  It was listed with 9500hrs, so i bid accordingly, and won.  I got it home and it only has 3900hrs.  Yay me.

It was -17c and i thought what the heck.  See if it runs.  It fired right up first try and runs nice and smooth.  It welds perfect.  Yay woo again.

I plugged in the angle grinder...nothing.  crap i bought this half for the awesome 15kw 3 phase / single phase generator and it doesn't work.  It is looking like it is the main control board.  I'll be taking it off in the next few days and then begging for advice. 

[MagnetJuice]

I assume that you already tried to reset the receptacle supplementary protectors and the GFCI receptacle.

Do you have a Manual for it?

Ed

[bigrockcandymountain]

Yes i checked the gfci and circuit breakers.  I tested the leads that come out of the stator to the 3 phase terminals and no power there either.

I have an owners manual and parts manual but no service manual. 

I also checked the brushes and they are good. 

[Bruce S]

I might have the wrong style , but wasn't that one of those types that if sat too long needed the genset externally excited to get it back to seeing a field ? Kinda like to old car generators?

I could be way way off, but something is tickling the back of my brain about that generator part of this .

Nice find!!

Bruce S

[MagnetJuice]

I found 2 user's manuals for that welder. One has 98 pages with clear schematics of the electrical circuits.

Let me know if you need this manual.

Ed

[bigrockcandymountain]

Magnetjuice i actually found those too.  The wiring diagram was a big help.  I put the board back together and in and hooked up a plug that didn't really look like it was hooked up recently and now it works.  So now I'm not sure if i just didn't test well enough the other day or if what i did today fixed it.  Oh well, i guess it doesn't matter too much.

It still doesn't have power to the 120v gfci, but i traced that back to a switch/circuit breaker that is easy to replace but $120   The 50a 240v tests good and ran my angle grinder when i touched it between L1 and neutral.  The 3 phase tests good too, but i didn't try it. 

I'm feeling a little silly for asking for help before trying a little harder.  Thanks everyone for the help anyway.

Derek

[Scruff]

i traced that back to a switch/circuit breaker that is easy to replace but $120  

Hi Big Rock, that sounds double the standard price. Maybe shop around, if it's a standard GFI is ought to be less. Some manufacturers charge a lot for their name. Siemens come to mind...

[MagnetJuice]

If the circuit breaker is the one labeled CB2 on the schematic, it would be this one;



That is part number 093996. Many places sell it in the US. I don't know about Canada.

Ed

[SparWeb]

Nice! 

I've had the same experience - went asking for help when actually a good night's sleep and a bit more poking around would let me find the answer anyway.

You won't need to haul the turbine and tower back to the shop any more, will you?

400Amps in TIG...  holy cow.

[bigrockcandymountain]

It is CB1 in the schematic.  Part number  201083. 

I made an offer on one on Ebay. We'll see how that goes. 

400Amps in TIG...  holy cow.

It is WAY more welder than i need, but it's going to be a ton of fun.

[DamonHD]

I think that just formulating the question helps the answer emerge in your head.

In IT / programming this is "rubber ducking" or "cardboard cutout programming"!

Rgds

Damon

PS. Didn't seem like a silly question to me anyway.  Better to ask and avoid a bad outcome!

[Scruff]

Organic CPU sharing I callit...aka the Hive mind. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye.

Even computers are doing it these days.

400A  blimey, I dunno if I'd have enough lucky underpants for that craic.
Is she water cooled?

[bigrockcandymountain]

Nope it's a deutz air cooled diesel.  I like vw diesel engines.  Hopefully this German is a good one too. Of course i will have to buy a few 1/4" welding rods and see what 400a looks like. 

I usually annoy my wife with my ponderings.  We had baby #3 a couple weeks ago so she isn't quite as happy to listen to my constant droning on about circuits.  Something about being up all night i expect.

[Scruff]

I knew I asked that wrong...I meant is the TIG torch water cooled?

The prime mover is air cooled?!  Wow-wee I havenay seen a machine like that!
[Ah I just checked the listing she's a 6kVA....looks like a 40kVA in the pic..arah yersh I've spied some air-cooled listers alright]

Santa's bringing me a Esab Rogue 180 inverter jobber for "generator testing". Walk before you can run eh....

Well wear!

I like vw diesel engines.

Powered by tigers.
LT35 best LGV haulier ever made.
....cwaor they used to stand up on the back legs! They don't do that any more. 

I usually annoy my wife with my ponderings.  We had baby #3 a couple weeks ago so she isn't quite as happy to listen to my constant droning on about circuits.

Sounds familiar...

[bigrockcandymountain]

Aha i wondered if you were talking about the welder.  I don't even have a tig torch for it. It didn't come with leads at all.  I just tried stick welding with it.  I'm betting at 400a you better hope your tig torch is water cooled though. 

The 5 cylinder diesels.  We didn't get many of those over here.  They would be awesome i bet. 

[Scruff]

I don't even have a tig torch for it. It didn't come with leads at all. 

Neither does mine! 
hehe...I'm tempted to build a blue trolley for my set now as a learner project and brand it Mullered in white!
....I'm supposed to run the Esab offa 6kVA so I best see if my (4kVA) Studer can punch that far above her weight before I get too carried away. I reckon she'll take names though.

I just tried stick welding with it.  I'm betting at 400a you better hope your tig torch is water cooled though. 

I think after ~200A you haveta...but then again I thought that was what MIGs were for...not an expert.
I asked my neighbour welder helping me with my van what to get. He asked me what I wanted to weld. I said rust! His look was priceless.

The 5 cylinder diesels.  We didn't get many of those over here.  They would be awesome i bet.

I learned to powerslide in one. 

Computers won't let you these days. 

[SparWeb]

Without a water jacket that torch will burn your hand in seconds.  I tried a Miller 180 TIG a few times.  Couldn't do more than mess around, stuff happening either way too fast or too slow for me.  I can't even imagine what 400 A would be like.

[MagnetJuice]

BigRock, I feel like it would be useful to add some comments to this thread. It could help others deal with a similar problem.

I am sure that the welder was stored for a while in a place where temperatures and humidity was not ideal.

I suspect that the reason why the Generator in your Welder didn’t have any output when you first tried it, had to do with the control board. Most likely, the pins on the board or the contacts in the slot had a buildup of oxidation and some of the pins were not making contact. That could be the reason why the generator started to work after you reinserted the control board. Then the pins made a better connection with the slot and that ‘fixed’ it.

Over the years, I have restored many pieces of electronics test gear, audio amplifiers and other electronic equipment. Some of those have been setting in garages, attics or barns for years.

Whenever I get a vintage, valuable piece of electronic equipment, before I apply power to it, I remove the cover and make sure that there is nothing burned or damaged inside. Then I clean it with compressed air. After that I unplug all the wire connectors and clean the contacts with isopropyl alcohol or contact cleaner. I do the same with any circuit board cards, contact switches, rheostats and volume controls.

It would be a good idea, as soon as you get a break in the weather, (April?) to go over all the contacts and connections and clean them good.

That welder/generator is a nice piece of equipment. A lucky find for you.

Ed

[bigrockcandymountain]

Thanks Ed, i think your advice is great and i will definitely take it.

The worst thing about this machine is it was pulled down roads covered in road salt a lot.  There is a thick layer of salty dust covering everything. The rubber cover is missing off the circuit breaker that is wrecked, so it was probably the salt that did that one in.

I was just going to blow the dust out, but i will take your advice and a can of contact cleaner and do some work on all the connections. 

I am very lucky to have this welder, so i will definitely take good care of it.