Author Topic: wood gas  (Read 3760 times)

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machinemaker

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wood gas
« on: October 18, 2021, 04:08:29 PM »
does anyone here have experience using wood gas / syn-gas for powering small engines? I am thinking of using this to run a backup generator.
Kent

Mary B

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2021, 12:49:37 PM »
I remember a discussion on this a few years ago... the forum search feature should bring it up...

Scruff

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2021, 05:21:30 PM »
Burnin' wood's pretty CO2 intense with current implementation it's akin to burning dinos. Trees can't sequester as much CO2 as they release from incineration in their lifetime.

Politicians, lumbermills etc say otherwise...without demonstrating any data because that'd be the same as saying I'm a bald-faced liar and have a financial interest at heart.

If you'd intended on burning it anyway then by all means rotate a turbine with it on it's way to the atmosphere.

We've an open fire in our house. If you light it it redirects the draft but doesn't heat anything inside the building. It's a 5 ton engineered hole in the building and the heat losses through it are about >1000:1 what it provides when we light it 4 times a year. Why is it so shyt? I asked...I was told "That's the way we always do it!"

Mary B

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2021, 11:57:07 AM »
Why my pellet stoves uses outside air for combustion and draws zero inside air... and I can burn corn if I want(it is a pain) which IS carbon neutral. They claim stove efficiency of 90+%... I think closer to 80%, the exhaust is hotter than I would want to hold my hand over but it vents via a simple insulated vent pipe and thimble thru the wall.

machinemaker

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2021, 10:15:19 AM »
WOW! Interesting comments!
Kent

electrondady1

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2021, 11:18:16 AM »
i can recall several discussions about wood gas over the years+ photos of peoples systems . it hasn't come up for discussion in quite a while but you might find something if you dig in the archives


Scruff

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2021, 05:09:00 PM »
Sorry machinemaker...the answer's in your name to my internal question "Why would I?".

I'm all for making things purposeful...ignore my gripe with wood-burning being branded renewable, please. Off-topic. Oh look..my coat.. :-[
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 05:21:27 PM by Scruff »

Bruce S

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2021, 09:59:01 AM »
Sorry machinemaker...the answer's in your name to my internal question "Why would I?".

I'm all for making things purposeful...ignore my gripe with wood-burning being branded renewable, please. Off-topic. Oh look..my coat.. :-[
Scruff;
I was wondering where you were going with this. Normally you are pretty open minded with making use of what'cha got.
While burning wood in older wood stove and pot-belly heaters are both inefficient and environmentally dirty and great number of the newer ones (including the mini-burners for Tiny Homes) have come along way to being much better.

I do have to disagree on the CO2 statement though. A dead tree is gonna give up all the stored CO2  whether is does it by burning or decay.

I do agree in principle that wood-burning being renewable. The growing of trees and burning them is CO2 neutral, HOWEVER, that does not say anything about the particulates going up the chimney or the fossil fuels being used to harvest them in mass quantity  :o.

Cheers
Bruce S
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machinemaker

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2021, 05:24:59 PM »
After gritting my teeth and not replying I wanted to state some facts: We have a ten-plus acre wood lot that we let nature have its way. It is great habitat for wildlife and undisturbed plant growth. The little we use this resource is for a walk in nature, gathering mushrooms and wild onions (ramps). Knowing that this is left natural is worth the yearly cost in taxes. I have observed the great number of limbs that fall each year and this would be a part of the wood for this wood gas use. We heat our home with wood that is in another wood lot closer to our home and easier to cart to the house. So when someone tries to tell me that burning wood creates more carbon than the tree absorbed to create it that is wrong! We live in a region of hardwood forests, each year the trees pull carbon out of the air, minerals, and water from the soil to produce wood and leaves. Right now the forest floor has a covering of several inches of leaves. Leaves that are carbon and minerals. They will compost into the soil, effectively sequestering that carbon into the earth. If a tree dies or the annual fall of branches is not removed they too compost into the soil, or become the nutrients for the mushroom we gather. HOW CAN burning a tree release more carbon than it took to create it?
What has even greater carbon sequestration on a per-area basis is not the forests, but the grasslands of our pasture. It is never plowed, grows local native grass species, never chemically fertilized or treated. This pasture is managed for feeding animals and building the soil. We use a grazing plan that some call “mob stock grazing”, the idea is to daily move animals to smaller areas to encourage them to eat a third and trample two-thirds as mulch to build the soil. This along with first grazing cattle, then poultry in movable pens. The cows eat and trample the taller grasses, leaving their manure behind. By moving them each day they have a clean, healthy feed, no parasite build-up, and after grazing the pasture has time to rest and regrow. The poultry in pens follows to spread the manure, eat insects, and the shorter growth the cows can not eat. The sheer volume of grass that grows each year far exceeds the growth of trees or bushes. More than half of the growth, (carbon) is returned to the soil.
Cutting back carbon emissions is a smaller part of helping the environment as opposed to changing the way we live and in particular, how we produce the food we daily eat. Living in rural lands rather than urban and suburban areas is the solution to the environmental impact humans have. In this country according to census data, 80% of the population live on 3% of the land area. This suburban and urban lifestyle is nearly 100% dependent on outside resources. The carbon dioxide that fuels our pasture and forest comes from some urban areas. But we are taxed to provide this for the city dwellers.

Scruff

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2021, 06:05:42 PM »
Does a turbo make your car more efficient? Yes in theory. No in reality because I can go faster with a turbo. ..it's like that.

Clicky

I just wondered why make a generator with the same or less advantage than one I could buy....I wasn't always like this...less time these days..and jealous of those who have it in a way being honest about it.
There's lots of very good reasons, agreed. Hence me thinking I oughta shudup.

I spent a month designing a thermo-electric generator for watts once upon a time.
Same for wind.
7 years looking for a high fidelity battery charger.
I ain't shy a burnin' dinos myself. Plentya time I poured them into a PA system in a field.

A lot of things we do for local reasons it's our right, we are free.


Scruff

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2021, 09:04:18 PM »
Haha deadly!

I found a pic..that wasn't easy.



...I even invented the Electric Wood Burning Stove.

It's a 2kW induction hob. Shore power heater.

Fews days at that. Worked grand too.

Couldn't be listening to a 50hz Stove though. ::)

electrondady1

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2021, 11:25:58 AM »
your trying  to change one form of of matter (solid) into another form of matter (gas)
 a big energy input is required.
a lot of that energy is going to be lost in the process.
if you could utilize that waste energy, to say, heat your home in winter or make hot water then the wood gas could be thought of as a useful bi-product.
my understanding is a lot of other materials are released in the process and condense into liquids and semi solids like tar. you have to deal with that.

it turns out the earth has been starving for more co2 for a very long time.
at 125ppm all plant life dies. green house operators like to keep levels up around 800-1200 ppm.

 Cannabis is legal to grow and consume here in Canada.  i find it useful to plumb  my wine making byproduct (co2), into my grow operation.
two birds, one stone. 
:))



SparWeb

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2021, 09:04:28 PM »
machinemaker,

Thanks for sharing the experience of your lifestyle and especially how land is managed where you live.
The experience for my wife and I, living in a fairly similar way, also bears some similarities.  We keep horses but we don't pack a dozen of them onto a postage stamp.  Instead we can give them each a couple of acres to graze all year and supplement that with other feed and minerals that usually is produced locally.  We have also learned that horses are evolved to eat very low-grade grasses, and do better if that's all they get, so we can feed them poverty-grass hay and everyone's happy.
This lifestyle comes at a cost which means more driving.  All the conditions are right that I can switch to an electric car, but my current cars are showing no sign of quitting soon.  I can't bear the thought of discarding all of that material just for a "consumer" choice, so I will make sure these things have every last KM driven out of them before switching to an EV.

In terms of heating, I wouldn't consider wood gas because I live on the prairies and my home has already been built with a natural gas furnace.  That said, if I ever have to move, knowing about choices like this might be valuable someday.  Learning about peoples' experiences with various technologies is what I'm here for!

Oh, and don't mind Scruff.  We grit our teeth, too, from time to time.  And Scruff knows it.  Teasing one's mates is a time-honoured tradition among the Irish, so take it as a sign of friendship, next time he pokes you.
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bigrockcandymountain

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2021, 06:50:15 AM »
Hey machinemaker, glad to hear you are into some mob grazing practices etc.  We have been trying to do more if it with our cow herd too, but we are 7 years in to a pretty severe drought and the results are hard to see so far.  It does definitely work though. 

I'm pretty sure i remember a tractor with a big wood gas conveter stove mounted on the side.  I always thought it was a neat idea.  Especially if you were using the tractor to clear bush. 

We heat with wood too and feel good about it.  In large parts of the country, you can either harvest the deadfalls or watch the next wildfire burn them.  I prefer to heat the house with them.  Our house is super insulated, so we only use about a cord a year.

MattM

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2021, 07:16:14 AM »
I burn off a lot of fallen limbs and pine needles each spring and fall season.  I should probably take an old A-coil and put it over a barrel to heat the pool with it or something.  But otherwise I do it to keep the lawn clear of tinder.  Utilizing this as a resource certainly would be 'green energy'.  So I have a little different view than scruff on the subject.

DamonHD

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2021, 09:04:34 AM »
Using what would be waste wood from your own or close-by land that would otherwise rot seems entirely green to me.  (Burn it properly so as not to make anyone ill with smoke/particulates!)

Lots disagree by the time you get to the scale of DRAX in northern England burning gigawatts for electricity.

Rgds

Damon
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 10:34:34 AM by DamonHD »
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Bruce S

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2021, 09:52:51 AM »
machinemaker;
Here I am reading this at work getting homesick.
In my home town, this is what our families do and did back when they homesteaded the area in the Ozarks region of SE MO.

Even up in the urban area of St Louis, we hold to this idea. This is also one of the things the city understands very well, we began getting rid of the front yard grass and planting known local flowers,herbs and such.

THANK YOU for posting this!

Bruce S

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machinemaker

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2022, 06:40:41 PM »
Just an update: went back to the forum "drive on wood" and found a lot of information. I look at this as an onsite solution to energy needs. I will be adding wood gas to power my backup generator in the near future. This spring I will start the site work for micro-hydro, then look at the engineering for a tower build and turbine. I need a 90-foot tilt-up tower for our site. I will start a page when I start clearing brush around the creek.
Kent

MattM

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2022, 03:41:10 PM »
Pine Needles should work really well as fuel, too.

Maybe California should consider forest floor materials for an alternative fuel.