Author Topic: My experience so far. (Read 8091 times)

Astro · « **on:** January 14, 2022, 06:44:03 PM »

Well, I figured I knew a thing or two about electricity and the utility company is a thorn in my side. It is just to dam expensive.
So I set out to build a wind generator. But I am placing it in a garden, so I want it to look nice.
So I put 2 and 2 together added 7 and carried the 2 and I have found out so far. that you will probably use more copper then you would think. I have also figured that you need to build with extra think plates and the iron content matters. A36 is probably the best. Reason being #1 you might want to stack magnets, later on. You need to be able to give the side stuck to the plate something to do. Then you need to study flywheels. But don't forget the weights as you build this thing. Then you need to study aero dynamics. It helps if you have a firm grasp of controls.
Then you can get back to knowing a thing or 2 about electricity. You will use more copper then you think, but you will probably never get as many winds as the numbers you ran come out to be.
As always this stuff we are doing is powerful, be careful. Even the small magnets, be careful. Plan your work and work your plan.
I am half done winding my coils. Mags bought, a few odds and ends bought, another spool of wire on the way.
Future updates to come.

JW · « **Reply #1 on:** January 14, 2022, 07:01:06 PM »

Tell me about it. This may be off topic, You Guys may have noticed we don't have any adds anymore. The truth is that if you try AdSense they get 75* of your possible revenue, and you only get 25*. Then. if you don't have the thing configured just right you are lucky to get that 5*

Anyway, I figured I would put this here.

SparWeb · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2022, 09:51:39 AM »

Hi Astro,
If learning is the goal, then you have nothing but success on your hands.
Throw in the potential for an interesting addition to your garden, and more power you don't have to buy from the power company; these can be treated as icing on the cake.

DamonHD · « **Reply #3 on:** January 15, 2022, 09:59:12 AM »

Completely agreed: there is lots of good learning in this. Which is why I plough on with my projects.

But grid is cheap and beating it on cost is hard.

Rgds

Damon

kitestrings · « **Reply #4 on:** January 15, 2022, 10:12:25 AM »

Damon beat me to it, but I concur entirely. If your goal is to learn, explore, engage with other crazy's, have some fun and at times be surprised (both good and bad) you're on track. If your goal is to produce power at a lower cost than you can buy it from the utility... I think you will find this to be a tall challenge.

Mary B · « **Reply #5 on:** January 15, 2022, 11:39:00 AM »

Quote from: JW on January 14, 2022, 07:01:06 PM

Tell me about it. This may be off topic, You Guys may have noticed we don't have any adds anymore. The truth is that if you try AdSense they get 75* of your possible revenue, and you only get 25*. Then. if you don't have the thing configured just right you are lucky to get that 5*

Anyway, I figured I would put this here.

Reach out to Morningstar, the magnet sellers etc and see if they want to run targeted ads in here. Won't really be a moneymaker but a little to help offset costs...

JW · « **Reply #6 on:** January 15, 2022, 06:59:45 PM »

Thanks Mary.

Were doing really good now. I'm not really worried about ad revenue. Got another project going, I'm working on forensic on one of my other websites. Were good

Astro · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2022, 11:38:03 AM »

Quote from: DamonHD on January 15, 2022, 09:59:12 AM

Completely agreed: there is lots of good learning in this. Which is why I plough on with my projects.

But grid is cheap and beating it on cost is hard.

Rgds

Damon

Everything I do that I have not done before, I approach as a learning opportunity. So I am good there. Yeah it is going to cost a bit, but I am still shooting for a 4 year payback, which fits into my plans. I am hoping to run my fridge, stand up freezer and gas furnace fan from my battery bank. I decided not to go grid tie, and if the batteries go dead, I will just have a switch that flips it all back to grid power.
Most of all SparWeb is correct, it is going in the garden. Well the edge of the garden. Right in between a 15x15 L shaped trellis for vines (cucumbers, melons) and 6in tall raised L shaped bed of strawberries. My version of self sufficient living in town.

My brother is digging a pond in his retirement. Way out in the horse and cow pasture. He wants to use an old 4 leg windmill tower that he can get for free and make a wind mill that aerates his pond. So maybe I will get to work on that project as well. He lives 5 hours away and is pretty smart guy, so I do not think he will need my help, but it might ne a fun project as well. Has anyone on here made a mill that pumps air???

Astro · « **Reply #8 on:** January 19, 2022, 09:17:39 AM »

Well I got a few more parts in. Bearings and some drafting items I needed. Still waiting on the wire to finish winding the coils. Should be casting the stator sometime next month (2-3 weeks). I will be building the mold for that in the next couple weeks as well.
U decided to pick up some drafting items, as it will help me build it if I have it drawn to exact, but also, just incase it works out super well, it might be nice to have it documented well.

Astro · « **Reply #9 on:** January 20, 2022, 03:29:00 PM »

What kind of weight are you guys running? As I build this thing, weight has become a question. I am only going to put it up 20ft to start with and see how it performs, but it is going to be heavy. I am thinking all done this thing could weigh 150 pounds. Yikes. LOL I am not afraid of that, but it is more than I had ever thought it would be on the first day I said, hey lets build a wind turbine.

bigrockcandymountain · « **Reply #10 on:** January 20, 2022, 06:17:03 PM »

Mine might be the heaviest. The rotor is about 60 pounds. The generator has to be 150lbs. The tail is probably 50lbs. Frame is about 100lbs. That's 260lbs at the top. The tower is about 350lbs so 610lbs grand total.

It's a big project. I had no idea either when i started.

Astro · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2022, 07:15:09 PM »

Quote from: bigrockcandymountain on January 20, 2022, 06:17:03 PM

Mine might be the heaviest. The rotor is about 60 pounds. The generator has to be 150lbs. The tail is probably 50lbs. Frame is about 100lbs. That's 260lbs at the top. The tower is about 350lbs so 610lbs grand total.

It's a big project. I had no idea either when i started.

Yeah it sure does grow as you go. What kind of tower and height do you have it up on? I am starting to wonder what I am going to have to build for a tower.

MattM · « **Reply #12 on:** January 20, 2022, 08:33:15 PM »

Quote from: bigrockcandymountain on January 20, 2022, 06:17:03 PM

Mine might be the heaviest. The rotor is about 60 pounds. The generator has to be 150lbs. The tail is probably 50lbs. Frame is about 100lbs. That's 260lbs at the top. The tower is about 350lbs so 610lbs grand total.

It's a big project. I had no idea either when i started.

Why do I count 710 pounds in your paragraph?

SparWeb · « **Reply #13 on:** January 20, 2022, 09:22:40 PM »

I'm still such a lightweight. 160 Lb on the tower top. The tower itself is 600 pounds, including all the cables. The gin pole is another 200.

JW · « **Reply #14 on:** January 20, 2022, 11:30:39 PM »

Check this out-
https://www.google.com/search?q=hugh+piggott&rlz=1C1JZAP_enUS981US981&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&fir=P9VNkiIKLhR_WM%252C2iwwbb-GH6tLbM%252C_%253BditeCaCaOKixEM%252C1-RSNCRfwrliNM%252C_%253BbSZjHeQYmudxxM%252C5Ak7jkO9Jz26BM%252C_%253BJXOJj20iIlDijM%252Ccacg_4XHJvDzbM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kQYap_-Pa-fUWhF4KX0fC9EfnnSyg&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwi24-yQgML1AhV-gP0HHd9dApwQ_h16BAgUEAE&biw=1280&bih=881&dpr=1#imgrc=diteCaCaOKixEM

The theory is good. Its nice to check out Hugest destines recent work... worth checking out.

bigrockcandymountain · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2022, 07:22:50 AM »

Quote from: MattM on January 20, 2022, 08:33:15 PM

Why do I count 710 pounds in your paragraph?

Nice catch. I'll blame the kids for screaming in my ear, but i was probably just having a moment.

Astro · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2022, 04:51:36 PM »

Something like that.

MattM · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2022, 06:45:56 PM »

I see a lot of connectors in your future.

If only there was a practical, low cost way to roll all of coils simultaneously. How long is each coil leg?

Astro · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2022, 08:52:52 AM »

Quote from: MattM on January 23, 2022, 06:45:56 PM

I see a lot of connectors in your future.

If only there was a practical, low cost way to roll all of coils simultaneously. How long is each coil leg?

The coils are 60 winds of 14 with a 1 x 1/2 center.
Yeah I am not exactly looking forward to all the connections and I thought the same thing about winding them all at once. Oh well. The whole project is moving slowly and it is mainly due to funds, but I do not mind it going slow. The coils for sure got easier as I went. I think I totally scraped my first attempt at one and then the next one was not so great either, so I did have some waste. But once you get going, it is not so bad. ANY TIPS and tricks on wiring all these up?? Also, been looking at something like this (I see midnite has a diy line that looks similar) thoughts on it? I like that it does almost everything I want it to do. https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Charger-Controller-Lithium-Batteries/dp/B096FG97DQ/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Oh and I am thinking about changing the location of it. I was going to put it in the garden, but now I am thinking a pole off the back of the garage. The garage is a good 20 ft up to the peak, so I could get it up 30 ft or so pretty easy. That is taller then many of the one level homes around me, but nothing compared to the huge trees I have. I am still deciding on that.

DamonHD · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2022, 03:21:13 PM »

Coupling turbine vibration to any part of your building is a BadIdea(TM) I think. Unless the building construction was planned for it.

Both because of coupling noise into the house, but also because you may shake things apart that aren't expecting those sorts of stressors.

But what do I know? B^>

Rgds

Damon

Astro · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2022, 05:28:31 PM »

Quote from: DamonHD on January 24, 2022, 03:21:13 PM

Coupling turbine vibration to any part of your building is a BadIdea(TM) I think. Unless the building construction was planned for it.

Both because of coupling noise into the house, but also because you may shake things apart that aren't expecting those sorts of stressors.

But what do I know? B^>

Rgds

Damon

Yeah, I never really thought of that. The noise probably would not be much or bother me. I was thinking a pole from the ground up, with stand off supports. I could even put a strip of rubber between the garage and the stand off brackets, but you are right, it is going to depend on how much it vibrates.

SparWeb · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2022, 11:59:04 PM »

They definitely do vibrate. They also speed up and slow down in cycles, so it's not a constant noise, but a pitch that varies up and down all the time.

It's a thing: I lean my head against the tower and listen for a while. There's a lot of information in the noise. But you don't want it broadcast at you 24/7.

Astro · « **Reply #22 on:** January 26, 2022, 11:48:45 AM »

Ok a couple more questions.
#1 If I wound my coils with#14 and it is good for 20 amps (prefer to keep it around 16-17 amps), then all I need is a 20 amp charge controller, correct?
#2 could I put pins in a board, put petroleum jelly on the board and the pins, put a piece of fiberglass mesh down, brush on resin until pretty goopy, then place my coils exactly, let dry. Then take the whole thing off and it would be fairly stuck together and then wire all the coils together?? I am worried that during the wiring of the coils, they are going to move around a bit and since they turned out somewhat round, the hole in the center won't match up with the mag perfectly if I do not figure out a way to stick them all together before i go moving it around wiring it.
What I am doing is, I divide 360 degrees, by the number of coils. Then I draw this out and each line should be running exactly through the center of the coil. So 12 coils means that every 30 degrees there would be a line and that line needs to be in the center of the coil. Then obviously the inner edges of the coil hole all need to line up with whatever circumference of circle works for the size of the coil.
But do you think I would be able to do that with the pins in a board, fiberglass mesh and wet it down pretty good with resin and set my coils before I wire them all up, just to make sure they do not move around on me??? The pins would be to mark not only the inner edge of the coil hole, but also on the lines I drew out that run through the center of the coil, because once you put down the mat and resin, you are not going to be able to see those lines you drew any longer.
As always thanks for your answers.

Mary B · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2022, 12:06:16 PM »

dot of hot glue under each coil is all it takes. Easy to break off whatever they are laying on once you have the wiring done.

Astro · « **Reply #24 on:** January 26, 2022, 12:26:07 PM »

Quote from: Mary B on January 26, 2022, 12:06:16 PM

dot of hot glue under each coil is all it takes. Easy to break off whatever they are laying on once you have the wiring done.

Could I just glue them together like that? I am just worried they are going to move around when placing in the mold to be cast.
Also I am correct that there is no sense getting a 40 amp controller, when I have #14 windings, correct? or am I missing some reason not to just get a small controller?
Thanks.

MattM · « **Reply #25 on:** January 26, 2022, 03:38:58 PM »

Quote from: Astro on January 26, 2022, 11:48:45 AM

Ok a couple more questions.
#1 If I wound my coils with#14 and it is good for 20 amps (prefer to keep it around 16-17 amps), then all I need is a 20 amp charge controller, correct?
#2 could I put pins in a board, put petroleum jelly on the board and the pins, put a piece of fiberglass mesh down, brush on resin until pretty goopy, then place my coils exactly, let dry. Then take the whole thing off and it would be fairly stuck together and then wire all the coils together?? I am worried that during the wiring of the coils, they are going to move around a bit and since they turned out somewhat round, the hole in the center won't match up with the mag perfectly if I do not figure out a way to stick them all together before i go moving it around wiring it.
What I am doing is, I divide 360 degrees, by the number of coils. Then I draw this out and each line should be running exactly through the center of the coil. So 12 coils means that every 30 degrees there would be a line and that line needs to be in the center of the coil. Then obviously the inner edges of the coil hole all need to line up with whatever circumference of circle works for the size of the coil.

Its not the center of the coil that is critical. All righthand sides of the coil need to align at each 30⁰ increment. Likewise, every lefthand side of each coil should align at each 30⁰ increment. You don't want the resonance of magnets going over each coil side out of balance for each phase. Generation is over each side of the coil, not when a magnet is over the middle of a coil.

Astro · « **Reply #26 on:** January 26, 2022, 03:52:39 PM »

Quote from: MattM on January 26, 2022, 03:38:58 PM

Quote from: Astro on January 26, 2022, 11:48:45 AM
Ok a couple more questions.
#1 If I wound my coils with#14 and it is good for 20 amps (prefer to keep it around 16-17 amps), then all I need is a 20 amp charge controller, correct?
#2 could I put pins in a board, put petroleum jelly on the board and the pins, put a piece of fiberglass mesh down, brush on resin until pretty goopy, then place my coils exactly, let dry. Then take the whole thing off and it would be fairly stuck together and then wire all the coils together?? I am worried that during the wiring of the coils, they are going to move around a bit and since they turned out somewhat round, the hole in the center won't match up with the mag perfectly if I do not figure out a way to stick them all together before i go moving it around wiring it.
What I am doing is, I divide 360 degrees, by the number of coils. Then I draw this out and each line should be running exactly through the center of the coil. So 12 coils means that every 30 degrees there would be a line and that line needs to be in the center of the coil. Then obviously the inner edges of the coil hole all need to line up with whatever circumference of circle works for the size of the coil.
Its not the center of the coil that is critical. All righthand sides of the coil need to align at each 30⁰ increment. Likewise, every lefthand side of each coil should align at each 30⁰ increment. You don't want the resonance of magnets going over each coil side out of balance for each phase. Generation is over each side of the coil, not when a magnet is over the middle of a coil.

Right, but given my center holes are a rectangle and not pie shaped, if I align the center, the sides will be aligned as well. I am using small mags and there just was no way to make the coils pie shaped. Well, no easy way with a center hole so small. I fought with them enough for my first time doing it and I am glad I just went with rectangular holes the same shape as the mags. By the time you get out to the outer edge of the coils they are starting to get somewhat round anyway (as you can see in the picture posted above).

bigrockcandymountain · « **Reply #27 on:** January 26, 2022, 09:46:00 PM »

I would oversize a controller for wind more so than solar if it has the wind output hooked directly to it. You'll get a lot of 1 second gusts that spike the amps up very high. Your coils will handle 40a for a second or 2 before they heat up i would think.

If it is a dump load controller, and hooked in parallel with the batteries then 20a is probably just fine. The batteries even out the gust peaks and you only end up dumping the average production. This is how i would recommend setting it up.

Your progress looks great. Keep up the posts. It's nice to have a new build thread.

Astro · « **Reply #28 on:** January 26, 2022, 10:52:03 PM »

Quote from: bigrockcandymountain on January 26, 2022, 09:46:00 PM

I would oversize a controller for wind more so than solar if it has the wind output hooked directly to it. You'll get a lot of 1 second gusts that spike the amps up very high. Your coils will handle 40a for a second or 2 before they heat up i would think.

If it is a dump load controller, and hooked in parallel with the batteries then 20a is probably just fine. The batteries even out the gust peaks and you only end up dumping the average production. This is how i would recommend setting it up.

Your progress looks great. Keep up the posts. It's nice to have a new build thread.

Thanks for the answer. I usually try to oversize everything, but only if the cost is justified. After doing what I do and reading for hours and hours I am kind of thinking this one sounds like it should work well. What do you think? It sounds like it would play well with a small mill.
https://www.renogy.com/rover-li-40-amp-mppt-solar-charge-controller/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA_8OPBhDtARIsAKQu0gZ4CbjyMHUUPCVQ0klswMH63tMBwktDAhsUh88N8XuDErJZB8ZFciIaAsdoEALw_wcB

MagnetJuice · « **Reply #29 on:** January 27, 2022, 03:54:03 AM »

Astro, I am aware that the picture that you posted is just temporary and it has not been properly aligned yet.

I just want to bring this up to show that when there is a large number of coils, a very small misalignment can throw you completely off.

That is why is very important to have a template to align the coils. I know you have one.

Here is a video that could give you some ideas about how to glue the coils in place before you cast it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiiP5mDVqLo

Ed

clockmanFRA · « **Reply #30 on:** January 27, 2022, 04:37:38 AM »

3.7m dia or 12 footers,
Coils 1.8mm diameter wire.

Astro · « **Reply #31 on:** January 27, 2022, 08:28:40 AM »

Quote from: MagnetJuice on January 27, 2022, 03:54:03 AM

Astro, I am aware that the picture that you posted is just temporary and it has not been properly aligned yet.

I just want to bring this up to show that when there is a large number of coils, a very small misalignment can throw you completely off.

(Attachment Link)

That is why is very important to have a template to align the coils. I know you have one.

Here is a video that could give you some ideas about how to glue the coils in place before you cast it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiiP5mDVqLo

Ed

That is a great example of why I do not want them moving around between wiring and casting. Yeah I drew up a template on a 1/4 piece of plywood because as you said, it is important to align them. When I snapped the pic before, I was trying to get and idea of what size steel plates I am going to need. The whole thing ended up being a little bigger then I had originally thought it would, but still doable. Thanks for the link, I will check it out when I wake up a bit more.
Thanks for drawing it up like you did, it makes it start to come to life instead of just being a big pile of coils right now. How do you think it will perform? I am thinking it should do pretty well for what it is. It is not a big machine and yet it is not a small one either. I am going with a vawt, but really I could turn it on it's side if I wanted to. Or I could spin it with my lawnmower if I wanted, Lol. Idk, right now I am just taking it one step at a time. I will worry about how to spin it later, but it is going to start life as a vawt.

Astro · « **Reply #32 on:** January 27, 2022, 08:36:12 AM »

Quote from: clockmanFRA on January 27, 2022, 04:37:38 AM

3.7m dia or 12 footers,
Coils 1.8mm diameter wire.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Wow. Yeah I am not ready to try that. I just told my wife, that if anyone ever tells her they want to build a windmill, to tell them to start small. Even smaller then they think, because they get big really fast. Besides, it takes a minute to wrap your head around everything the first time doing it. I learned a lot already and have not even done all that much. Smart idea using a board to hold them in place.

News:

Author Topic: My experience so far. (Read 8091 times)