Author Topic: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)  (Read 5941 times)

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mbouwer

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This topic was split from "axial generator with lamination core" -
axial generator with lamination core

A friend wants a solar tracker on his shed and I offered to make the construction.
A setup with a dummy panel.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2023, 10:57:41 AM by DamonHD »

DamonHD

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Re: Re: axial generator with lamination core
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2023, 02:04:21 PM »
1-axis or 2-axis?

Rgds

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mbouwer

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Re: Re: axial generator with lamination core
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2023, 02:17:49 AM »
2- axis. It is now first about the design and the control.

bigrockcandymountain

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Re: Re: axial generator with lamination core
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2023, 10:15:23 AM »
Maybe you could start a new thread?

mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2023, 02:24:23 PM »
Thanks Damon and Bigrockcandymountain.

A first set up showed a little more insight into the construction and components for the movements.
But it's only a small panel and the pivot has to be more compact
and the control less expensive.

MattM

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2023, 07:01:32 AM »
Seems like solar tracking should be sensorless and just use date and clock to predict where to keep it pointing.  Honestly, seems like trying to build a light sensor and the logic to home in on the sun takes way more energy than simply allowing a scheduler to align as we already know where the sun will be within a picosecond.

Mary B

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2023, 11:54:26 AM »
Plenty of programs to do it... I have ham radio based moon trackers that will do it... and they will output the common rotor formats...

mab

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2023, 12:14:41 PM »
Seems like solar tracking should be sensorless and just use date and clock to predict where to keep it pointing.  Honestly, seems like trying to build a light sensor and the logic to home in on the sun takes way more energy than simply allowing a scheduler to align as we already know where the sun will be within a picosecond.

This has been suggested before as a theory, but i don't know if anyone has actually implemented such a system on a diy setup to demonstrate if it's actually any better or simpler than sensing the suns position or not.

True you don't need optical sensors, but then you do need to sense/keep track of the actual position of the panels, either by using a datum point and dead reckoning from there, or by position feedback on the tracker.

Also depends on how sunny it is where you are: where i live you can have overcast conditions for a fortnight or more in the winter. A sun tracking system ends up facing south and not moving anywhere for the duration, whereas a system as you describe would be running the motor daily to faithfully point the panels at the eastern horison every morning and trundling across the overcast sky to the western horizon every evening.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 12:24:47 PM by mab »

JW

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2023, 04:55:15 PM »
 

What interests me about this type of solar tracker is the central cone. Surly it will have to rotate, maybe driven by a clock of some type. Then there should be an angular bearing on the panel its self, tracking horizon.

JW

-edit-
upon further thought the cone should have a lobe possibly more than one. the angular bearing would be central like a small globe. I would imagine the whole thing would have to be picked up a rotated every couple of weeks.   
« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 05:08:03 PM by JW »

mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2023, 03:39:52 AM »
The control is under development.
For the construction there is now a new smaller set-up with wall mounting, rotation and tilting of the panel.


MattM

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2023, 07:46:51 AM »
Interesting.  I assume like a J mount for satellite receivers.

Starlink used a turnable t-bar on early models.  Dishy rotated the yaw using a pair of motors connected by a central bevel gear on the end of the 't'.  Not sure how that worked but the plastic gears didn't hold up too well in practice.  I assume one side freely rotates and the opposite is connected to the dish, allowing the motors to work in redundancy.

mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2023, 05:37:19 AM »
There are so many possibilities.
This is the frame for set-up 2 with upper slide bearing.


mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2023, 05:25:18 AM »
The foundation frame with pivot (lower bearing not mounted here) and dummy panel in the 0 degrees initial position.
The entire frame with rotation and tilt drive gets a polyester box.


mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2023, 04:03:01 AM »
The tilt:
It seems to me that I can make the starting position of the panel at 10 degrees.
Almost no difference to the yield and it limits the stroke.


mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2023, 05:25:35 AM »
When driving the pivot with the panel,
1 degree of rotation must give 1 pulse.


Mary B

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2023, 11:22:13 AM »
When driving the pivot with the panel,
1 degree of rotation must give 1 pulse.

(Attachment Link)

1degree per pulse will not be very accurate! 10 pulses per degree would be far better!

mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2023, 11:20:56 AM »
How do I get 10 pulses per degree of rotation?
Perhaps I should install a much larger worm-wormgear transmission in the drive.


Mary B

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2023, 12:44:35 PM »
How do I get 10 pulses per degree of rotation?
Perhaps I should install a much larger worm-wormgear transmission in the drive.

(Attachment Link)

Instead of a magnet/reed switch on the output of the gear drive put it on the motor shaft.

This is the drive motor/worm gear set from one of my ham radio antenna rotors. The silver piece(low right) is the motor, under the black cover it has 4 magnets that drive a reed switch. If memory serves me it is 30 pulses/degree rotation...


DamonHD

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2023, 01:21:41 PM »
Output of PV is likely far less dependent on exact angle than I imagine some of your antennae might be!

So maybe less precision is fine?

Rgds

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mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2023, 01:44:02 PM »
Thanks Mary B and DamonHD,

The motor makes 2 rpm. The ratio to the pivot = 1 : 6
So for 1 degree of turning the pivot the motor must rotate 6 degrees.
How can I detect 6 degrees from the motor shaft.


mab

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2023, 07:27:37 PM »
Output of PV is likely far less dependent on exact angle than I imagine some of your antennae might be!

So maybe less precision is fine?

Rgds

Damon

That was my thought too.

It's a cosine relationship between output and anglular error from the sun, i.e.:

0°  100% output
1°  99.98%
10° 98.5%
20°  94.0%
45° 70.7%

So there's little to be gained by trying for <1° error

mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2023, 02:48:53 AM »
Finding a control without reinventing the wheel and then applying it to our construction. That's what it's about.

Mary B

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2023, 12:33:59 PM »
Thanks Mary B and DamonHD,

The motor makes 2 rpm. The ratio to the pivot = 1 : 6
So for 1 degree of turning the pivot the motor must rotate 6 degrees.
How can I detect 6 degrees from the motor shaft.

(Attachment Link)

2 small magnets on the shaft  and a reed switch next to it on a circuit board, that will give 2 pulses per shaft rotation

Mary B

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2023, 12:36:05 PM »
Output of PV is likely far less dependent on exact angle than I imagine some of your antennae might be!

So maybe less precision is fine?

Rgds

Damon

about a 30 degree beamwidth on 6 meters(50mhz) so not as critical as people think. Repeatable accuracy matters most because errors have a bad tendency to add up! More pulses means errors are lower if you drop a pulse or two.

DamonHD

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2023, 01:29:16 PM »
I think that you might get away with as few as ~9 distinct positions over a 180 degree arc (<<10% solar loss), so yes two or three magnets on the original shaft.  Optical encoding (shiny strips, and IR emitter/detector pair) might work too.

Rgds

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MattM

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2023, 07:50:39 AM »
Makes more sense to keep to ^2, like perhaps 8 or 16 positions.  Only need 3 color-coded sensor strips for 8 positions, and four for 16.  Piece of cake.

mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2023, 08:33:23 AM »
It is now about matching construction and control.
Fine tuning is always possible I think.






mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2023, 05:33:09 AM »
The composition and the (preliminary) shape of the small polyester cabinet.
On the left the 2 steel wires come down for the drive of the pivot.


mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2023, 08:50:21 AM »
It seems to me that the control of the panel becomes easier if I increase the gear ratio in the drive.
I now want to make the first stage to the pivot 1 : 60.


mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2023, 09:50:58 AM »
To increase the transmission ratio for the rotation (now 1 : 60 )
and to make room in the foundation box for the drive and control, I now have a new set-up.


mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2023, 04:28:00 AM »


Version 3 with a greater rotation gear ratio (1:60) and more space for drive and controls in the foundation box.
I want to make the suspension arms for the panel at the top of the upright and the tilting mechanism in the middle.

mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2023, 03:05:33 AM »


The upright (64 cm heigt) will be covered with polyester.
But first I want to shape the tilting mechanism in it.

mbouwer

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Re: 2-axis solar tracker (was: axial generator with lamination core)
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2023, 08:42:07 AM »


A recess is made in the upright for the panel-tilting mechanism.