Author Topic: VAWT backyard experiements (Read 9136 times)

Mary B · « **Reply #99 on:** January 26, 2024, 11:58:08 AM »

Politics and religion result in anger and flame attacks so verboten!

brandnewb · « **Reply #100 on:** January 26, 2024, 02:23:42 PM »

ohh wow!!

I am rambling on regarding my public thread on how to test the limits of coils / magnet arrangements.

depending on how one winds a coil one can get 300 winds easy to pull apart. So that iron powder can creap easily into every space in between the individual wires. Yet also be compacted really thinly like 8mm high only once compressed in isolation. So no resin and powder around it.

please see on the left 150 winds and on the right 300 winds. on the 300 coil I opened up the back and the front is somewhat compressed.

These are wound in a narrow fashion rather that a wide fashion like the coils I wound earlier.

This tells me 2 things;
* That I still should see if I can get the heat dissipation ability back (like I demonstrated earlier with a single non stacked powdered coil) even in a 20mm thin stacked configuration. I think I can do it.
* That there is a lot of unused copper in the leg bends.. But I am putting on hold any attempts of also harvesting there as I already see that this alternator in its current configuration is going to generate far too much volts if the goal is 52 at 3.3 m/s.

So I am at a crossroads and I could really use some advice / opinions.
Do I keep pushing this concept and end up with voltages in the 200s and use a Midnight Classic MPPT controller to deal with that?
Or do I scale down to a more economical size as to reach the 52 volts at 3.3m/s?
I am leaning towards scaling down to give this design a chance to contribute to the world by reducing the bill of materials considerably.

brandnewb · « **Reply #101 on:** January 26, 2024, 03:41:59 PM »

this makes me also realize I should try winding coils narrow and then aim for much less copper.
I have used this coil winding template shape for the narrow coils.

Now you see those 2 lines on the bottom and the top of the coil shape. That is how much I think I can cut of while winding coils since winding so narrow makes it so that I do not need the extra length of wire as to be able to stack/compress.

Lets see in practise if this works or not.

JW · « **Reply #102 on:** January 26, 2024, 06:13:08 PM »

actually this type of post/diary/section was built by me. since its "logged in" you won't traffic post to the main home page. If your posting on logged in diary's you can pretty much do what you want. multiple posts etc.

brandnewb · « **Reply #103 on:** January 28, 2024, 06:58:05 AM »

Its a nice addition JW to not only the software but also to the user experience.. Thank you for that.

It allows me sometimes be a little bit, ever so slightly, more weird than otherwise allowed elsewhere when it is in my logbook.

But truth be told I did take it as such already though. But thank you for confirming my gut feeling non the less.

brandnewb · « **Reply #104 on:** January 28, 2024, 06:59:17 AM »

but I will still try and keep hot topics to an absolute minimum if I can avoid it.

brandnewb · « **Reply #105 on:** January 29, 2024, 05:27:37 AM »

Ok I am going off the deep end again

In where my natural tendencies to not focus much also has a counter component in where I focus too much.

Please see if this concept of a friction less bearing makes any sense or not. Bogus or plausible I need to get moving again with the project at hand.

The magnets are available for purchase.
The anti gravity magnets are also available and can repel 140KG each. Well above the weight of the turbine if I do my homework correctly.

I will admit, if there is an actual possibility this might work, then now things are not really looking economical but I figured as follows.

If one is even interested in this design then one is perfectly capable to make changes to make it more economical. And I am sure we will all help in said process would there come questions.
Now I am not sure how long I have to create something to be proud of so I am going to just give it hell and end up with something strange.

-----

Yet intriguing and functional.

brandnewb · « **Reply #106 on:** January 29, 2024, 05:49:15 AM »

and I will be digging in the central 100mm diam alu column into the ground.

So technically it will be free standing again!!!! {1}hmm I am actually not sure. when a structure, although not connected to anything other than magnetic fields, needs the earth to provide stability. Can one really call it free standing? {1}

This concept, should it actually work in practice, will also allow for the turbine to be floating on the water. If physically possible then this will create new options on where to install this bird.

brandnewb · « **Reply #107 on:** January 29, 2024, 05:51:06 AM »

and it is especially when on water that I am looking for a {1}magnetic{1} bearing that allows for wobble of the column while keeping the rotor rather unaffected.

{2}when installed on water then I am actually rather confident one can call it free standing.{2}

brandnewb · « **Reply #108 on:** January 29, 2024, 11:39:46 AM »

now if ti was ok to post an .mp4 type of file then that would safe me a lot of effort converting to animated gif.

and it would help you as now you can actually pauze at the moment you want it to see what is going on there!!!

and the constant timeouts? it would be great if those can become a thing of the past.

brandnewb · « **Reply #109 on:** January 29, 2024, 02:42:38 PM »

here is a cross section of the bottom part.

I am worried that the forces required to keep the magnets responsible for keeping the column up right from touching are greater than the field can provide.

I am not worried that I will need more power to keep the column levitating.

brandnewb · « **Reply #110 on:** January 29, 2024, 02:53:47 PM »

haha I am sure us programmers can relate to the following statement.

over optimization is the root of all evil

someone needs to stop me!!!

ok I will go back to finding the sweet spot for PMA radius.

brandnewb · « **Reply #111 on:** February 07, 2024, 08:34:08 AM »

Personal ("Captains") log. Stardate 2024-02-07

I have recently realized that I failed to disclose the mission statement our endeavor is on.
This is why I have chosen to make some of the mission my ship is in more discoverable to the world at large.

To make it clear to headquarters here are the mission goals in order of importance. Although ranked subjectively by me, I believe I have earned my stripes to also suggest them as important to the multiverse at large.

* Get some usable power out of some wind so I can protect my family when s*(t hit the fan..
* Before I look my offspring in the eye before I have to depart I can be confident there would be interest in taking over my legacy.
* Get some more of that and figure out a way on how to store that.
* Make the whole structure reliable and versatility placed so that it could be adopted if one is interested. Or in other words make it cheap and easy to build.
* Reduce the reach of charlatans going about online claiming all kinds of things without demonstrating.
* Going down in history as someone that also benefited the field.

---

Anti importance yet totally plausible.
* Going down in history as the brave man that tried but never got there.

brandnewb · « **Reply #112 on:** February 07, 2024, 09:02:46 AM »

And yes I like to boast.

It is one of those things that result from an inherently insecure nature.

Now I just hope you guys will help get this show be more spectacular than ever before. That would be great!

But in the end of the day all that matters is to have something spinning to get one by in terms of additional energy needs.

I for one am done with all the videos I have seen about 3, 6 to even a gazillion KW alternators. It's all snake oil.

I am trying to learn how to actually demonstrate the capabilities of a wind turbine. And in the process it would be great if I can figure out a way on how to add something new to it

yet that is only an after thought.

brandnewb · « **Reply #113 on:** February 07, 2024, 10:36:38 AM »

yet I am never too proud to admit when I blunder.. even when doing so Hard.

Or always willing to include the source of the inspiration.

Because please all remember I make it known that I am not doing this alone. I stand on the shoulders of giants that enable me.

I did finally finish my foot and stabilizer for the new turbine column.

{if only I could just paste from clipboard here please!}

The MK 2.01 is now all alu. column diam 100mm.

Futuristic plans include dinging it into the ground as an early test test bed on how it might behave when the whole structure is floating on water.

Now it becomes apparent why weight is such an issue for me.

brandnewb · « **Reply #114 on:** February 07, 2024, 11:21:36 AM »

@TechAdmin,

Would you please run an SQL statement resulting in all records having an (image attachment && Adriaan was involved && I was involved)

i could then find the much needed inspiration I need for the direct drive to stay plausible.

What makes my mind even less reliable then I knew it would become in time is that I thought it was MattM that shared the image.

brandnewb · « **Reply #115 on:** February 09, 2024, 09:43:00 AM »

Ugg.

there is still wobble

Even though now the column is 100mm diam x 5mm alu. and order of magnitude more stiff than the previous column.
Now the problem is the alu plating on where the arms rest. It has gotten that flex which I do not like to see at this stage.

I am planning to tackle this problem while killing 2 (lesser) birds with one stone.

brandnewb · « **Reply #116 on:** February 09, 2024, 09:52:38 AM »

So I intend to put the old steel column on the top arm in the center.

So I can tether the arms to reduce the wobble. At least I am hoping that is what will happen.

And then also starting working on a self destruct feature that will pull the blades inward when the RPM get too high.

Something like incorporating a torsion spring like on my garage door.

That when triggered starts pulling on the blades to make them collapse inward.

I would love to hear some suggestions on how this can be done as I am not at all clear yet on how to actually pull that off.

brandnewb · « **Reply #117 on:** February 09, 2024, 10:00:04 AM »

in elevators they have this braking feature based on a device that when it rotates faster than a given threshold (when cables snap for instance) then the breaks kick in.

Something like that but then not susceptible to weather conditions like freezing and what have we.

brandnewb · « **Reply #118 on:** February 09, 2024, 10:19:03 AM »

grrrr. after more thought I can try as I might with tethering the arms but it will not reduce the wobbling.

&^$%&^$%

I can only think of adding weight by means of tick steel plating in between the alu plating and the arms.

The column it self is stiff as we need it to be. That one is showing no signs of flex what so ever. (visually that is of course. Physically and atomically there is always some flex going on there.)

DamonHD · « **Reply #119 on:** February 09, 2024, 10:20:02 AM »

The elevator brake idea is nice!

That doesn't stop you also putting an electrical emergency brake in. I used a crowbar overspeed short for my tiny turbine, which was a bit nasty, but when everything else has failed maybe it's better than the alternative...

https://www.earth.org.uk/wind-power-pilot-autumn-2007-MotorWind.html#crowbar

Rgds

Damon

brandnewb · « **Reply #120 on:** February 09, 2024, 10:56:52 AM »

wicked! next time I am near your neck of the woods I will stop by for a proper cup of tea.

Or better yet a proper lager!!

I just which you guys never left the union as now sourcing copper wires is far more troublesome.

I like scientificwire.com but now am forced to shop elsewhere yet I do not know where

I am open to suggestions!!

brandnewb · « **Reply #121 on:** February 09, 2024, 11:41:07 AM »

although I did not mean an actual break. I just meant a mechanism that once triggered (at a given RPM threshold) releases the tension spring and then it violently starts pulling on the blades. Making them collapse inwards.

brandnewb · « **Reply #122 on:** February 09, 2024, 12:10:28 PM »

you know what gang?!!

I am going with Mary's mental support suggestion. And that is to just build else risk falling into stagnation.
Analysis paralysis as it is called.

I am going with traditional at 3.75 interval at 300mm inner radius having 2 rotors and a single stator.

I am anxious to see what will happen.

brandnewb · « **Reply #123 on:** February 09, 2024, 12:24:53 PM »

in this context what coil would one advice?
I am willing to just go and use the "standard" as at the moment I am losing valuable time trying to over optimize things!!

JW · « **Reply #124 on:** February 09, 2024, 08:02:58 PM »

This section of the forum was invented by me. I am glad to see it works. Any user can use this as long as there logged in.

JW

brandnewb · « **Reply #125 on:** February 09, 2024, 11:28:36 PM »

Quote from: JW on February 09, 2024, 08:02:58 PM

This section of the forum was invented by me. I am glad to see it works. Any user can use this as long as there logged in.

JW

Yes indeed. It is a nice addition!

So please allow me to rant for just a second.

The turbine is spinning again all night. Next to near completly silent. It is mesmerizing to watch the blades glide.

Yet at around 1.6m/s wind speed I arrive at around 14 seconds per revolution. While at 3.3 m/s I arrived at 13 seconds per revolution.

There is just no consistency. This is ridiculous!!

How is one supposed to design a PMA like this?

;(

brandnewb · « **Reply #126 on:** February 09, 2024, 11:45:59 PM »

btw gang. although I am now fully frustrated please do not fear it discourages me.

No, on the contrary! I use this anger to drive me forwards. You think I would let a little wind hold me back?

brandnewb · « **Reply #127 on:** February 10, 2024, 01:44:29 AM »

The device I was referring to is called a "governor." In elevator systems, the governor is a speed-sensing device that activates the elevator's safety brakes if the elevator car moves too fast. When the elevator exceeds a certain speed, typically indicating a free fall or a significant overspeed condition like cable failure, the governor triggers mechanisms that engage the brakes, bringing the elevator car to a halt. This safety feature is crucial for preventing accidents in the event of mechanical failure.

brandnewb · « **Reply #128 on:** February 10, 2024, 02:39:45 AM »

There is just no way around hard work!! endless measurements and mistakes.

To arrive at an PMA that at least does something then there are no shortcuts to be made I am afraid. You see whether repelling or traditional i can defend both configurations with equal passion and data.

I guess the only real way forward to know for sure is to make use of the process I described in my public thread. I just do not see an alternative yet ;(

brandnewb · « **Reply #129 on:** February 10, 2024, 07:59:19 AM »

Hey Bruce, I hear you like making things yes?

Let us get together and make this speed govenor

Hahahah!! This is one of those times AI went totally over board

brandnewb · « **Reply #130 on:** February 10, 2024, 08:41:43 AM »

ok so early test results suggest that a back iron plating does not benefit a repelling configuration.

So that means that unless I find counter evidence the coming days then traditional still reigns supreme in this dual rotor setup.

brandnewb · « **Reply #131 on:** February 10, 2024, 08:58:51 AM »

but this makes me question the whole concept of back iron plating.

I mean let us take a mental image.

The idea of back plating is to reduce the resistance for the field to travel trough right? But to where? Yes of course abviously the other pole but in a dual rotor setup where is that pole?
Indeed not on the same disk. So would not then back plating only hurt the intended gain?

hmmm I must be overlooking something glaringly obvious yet for me not yet visible.

News:

Author Topic: VAWT backyard experiements (Read 9136 times)