Author Topic: 10 Foot machine with MPPT (Read 4813 times)

halfcrazy · « **on:** February 08, 2009, 06:05:27 PM »

Well we finally have a fair wind day and we are able to collect a little datafrom our 10 foot turbine built from Dans plans. the wind speed seems to be around 15-20mph we are getting a few gusts of closer to 30

the Classic controller was showing 42 amps at one point and battery voltage was at 56.4 so we where able to get 2370 watts out of the turbine around 28mph windspeed with a input amperage from the turbine around 15 amps.

We will continue to collect data and work on the classic and we will keep adding to this diary entry. i am hoping for 3000 watts but i need more wind. i was hoping for 30-40mph but i dont think we will get it today

electronbaby · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2009, 03:21:43 PM »

I hope the machine was furled at those wind speeds. If you made no changes to Dans design, then you were running at approx 158vdc after the rectifiers on the turbine side of the controller. This means you must be approaching 500RPM on the prop. It was probably starting to get a little noisy.

halfcrazy · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2009, 05:06:00 PM »

yes we where running in the 150 volt range and it was spinning but it wasn't that noisy at all i was surprised. the turbine was starting to furl lightly but it was still down in the safe amp range on the turbine side of things. i think 2500 watts is a real comfortable place for these 10 footers. i do feel with some thinking and engineering we could push the 10ft machines to the 3500-4000 watt area but we are going to need a bigger alternator i think?

Jon Miller · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2009, 01:28:03 AM »

I am looking to grid tie a couple of 10 footers, are you using a MPPT device to get that much power from your turbine?

Im looking to size the inverter for the 10 footer, what size would you say with your experience?

Many thanks

halfcrazy · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2009, 04:06:35 AM »

i dont have enough data to really answer that but i can say the way it sets stock right from dans plans it is real happy around 2500 watts. but i think if starting from scratch you may comfortably get more. My personnel turbine i will probably use the clipper to limit mine to 2500 watts until i decide if i want to rebuild it for the controller with more magnets and more coils

Jon Miller · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2009, 05:01:44 AM »

What magnet size are you using for this design?

cdog · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2009, 06:38:43 PM »

I likely should have done some homework before I asked this question, buttttt....

It is my understanding that a 10' mill is only supposed to be able to handle under 1000 watts or it will overheat?

I have a 10' mill very much the same as most around here, if I can double my output safely, please show me the way!!

Cdog.

halfcrazy · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:18:06 PM »

by letting the voltage of the turbine say double and the speed of the turbine raise we get more power

basically the stator can handle a certain number of amps. so by say doubling the voltage and making those same amps we double the wattage.

So stay tuned we will be adding more data and releasing more info on the Classic and its companion the Clipper in the very near future. with the clipper we will be able to limit the turbine based on say rpm's , power or voltage or all 3.

cdog · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2009, 09:05:48 PM »

I understand the relationship between volts/amps/watts.

I think I follow your idea buttttt....

If the stator is 50% efficient and you are doubling the watts, how does doubling the volts/cutting amps take the heat from the stator and put it into the work?

I'm sure it is all logical, butt if something seems too good to be true......

Cdog.

Jon Miller · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2009, 06:08:09 AM »

The heat losses in the coils are I^2r losses, as the resistance stays all but constant the losses are down to the current.

The MPPT dosnt take the heat from the stator is just minimises it to the stators limit whilst delivering maximum power by increasing the voltage which is related to rpm.

It does seem to go to be true but its true, looking forward to the Clipper being commercially available.

cdog · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2009, 03:46:33 PM »

Sounds good to me, I also checked out their site, looks great.

So if I understand correctly, it will let the mill run faster, producing higher volts, but will "step it down" somehow to be suitable for 24v(in my case)?

If this is true, sine me up, all I currently have is a c35, and it is marginal at best.

I have been looking at a morningstar 60 amp rig, but perhaps this will be the way to go?

Is there even a BALLPARK figure for a street price?

Many thanks,

Cdog.

halfcrazy · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2009, 03:54:15 PM »

you're understanding is pretty accurate. as for street price i have a close idea but i am not at liberty to say yet. Email Robin at midnite he can tel you what he thinks there. the clipper will be useful and i think it will add a nice touch to using these turbines for grid tie as it will fully control the turbine and limit voltage.

cdog · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2009, 05:49:57 PM »

Sounds like great news, keep us posted!

Cdog.

ibeweagle · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2009, 05:56:03 PM »

Keep and eye on the new design of rotors on my 12 footer sim to Dan's but bigger alt with aprox same size rotors 12.5inch 16 mags per rotor n45 will have update as I assemble it cheers ibeweagle under new rotors

ibeweagle · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2009, 06:12:14 PM »

You make jealous wish had that classic here have made many improvements to Dans design now keep and eye on my post in wind about new rotors will update as I assemble it. Are you going to use a clipper like Red Rock has for a diversion load if turbine gets above 150 volts DC or can the fets in the classic go higher than 150 volts and also understand need for load in case something takes off the load to the turbine cheers ibeweagle

halfcrazy · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2009, 07:09:55 PM »

yes we will use a clipper to limit voltage to the classic we will start in the 150 volt range but as robin stated they have a 250 volt unit as well that would be useful if one designed a turbine for the purpose of using it with a mppt controller.

and the clipper has a dump load built in so if one wishes they can use it instead of an external dump load so the classic will be programmed like any standard controller for bulk, float etc and the clipper will take care of everything else by itself or one could use an external dump load if they preferred.

i do think i may play with a bigger pair of rotors and stator on my 10footer when i get the time? and will be open to suggestions.

Jon Miller · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2009, 06:01:00 AM »

What grid tie inverters take 150 volts or there abouts?

halfcrazy · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2009, 07:04:18 AM »

well if i where grid tieng this turbine i would wind it for a bit higher voltage it would depend on what inverter i was using the power one aurora inverter looks very promising and if memory serves it takes 50-600 vdc in? so i would most likely shoot for the middle of the road for cut in voltage

Jon Miller · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2009, 12:42:34 PM »

Ok. Could you offer a bit of advice please, im looking to grid tie a ten fotter to a windy boy which is 250volt to 600volt DC.

It has a basic 3 point MPPT ability but i have not played with it before.

What cut in voltage do you think?

I was thinking a star / delta switch device related to rpm that can switch as it nears 600 volts to maximise power, or will this just confuse the MPPT of the inverter?

Many thanks

bobfandango · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:34:22 AM »

Halfcrazy, any updates on the Classic? You have the data logger in place yet?

Thanks

cdog · « **Reply #20 on:** March 18, 2009, 06:03:02 AM »

Bob, check out the video they have of a simulated turbine running on the new controller, very cool................http://www.midnitesolar.com/video/windSymVideo.php

bobfandango · « **Reply #21 on:** March 19, 2009, 01:18:52 PM »

Yeah, I've seen that video. Very cool indeed. But it doesn't simulate the mechanical conversion of wind power to prop shaft power. I would really like to see data from the thing on an operating turbine to see how well it can keep the blades near their optimal TSR (i.e. out of stall). So, data that includes wind speed, RPM, volts and amps out of the turbine and volts and amps into the batteries would be the tale of the tape, so to speak. Actually, come to think of it, I imagine the system may be able to tell us what, in fact, the optimal TSR is of any given set of blades. anyhow, real-world data would be GREAT! But, until the kinks are ironed out, they may just be keeping a lid on the data.... Anyhow, thanks for the link.

halfcrazy · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2009, 05:46:27 PM »

we do have the data logging equipment in place and should be live on the internet in a few weeks. i will say this i have the 1 by 2 magnets and i understand that makes my machine around 800 watts. we routinely see 1800 watts in the area of 30mph winds and we haven't really even started to work on the curve for this turbine. The learning mode will really help with that.

I would say at first glance we could go 2.5 times the rating on these turbines and still be very comffy and definitely could go 3 times the rpms do get up there a little at 3 times but it still seems very quite and rather pleasant sounding. I should have the clipper in place in a week and then i can get some rpms as well as mph and what not.

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Author Topic: 10 Foot machine with MPPT (Read 4813 times)