Author Topic: 12v panels  (Read 2076 times)

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Soapman

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12v panels
« on: December 11, 2006, 01:09:08 AM »
 I know that this has been done to death, but I did a search and came up with everything but what I want. I finally got my panels up on the new house. Just to make sure I'm doing this right, I want to maintain 12 volts with 4 panels. I need to connect all positives together and all negatives together.This should still give me 12 volts but increase the amps. Yes?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 01:09:08 AM by (unknown) »

ghurd

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Re: 12v panels
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2006, 06:14:11 PM »
That's right.

Make the connections very good.

Sometimes, it's better to bring 4 wires down to a reachable position. A later problem will be easier to figure out.

G-
« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 06:14:11 PM by ghurd »
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Tom in NH

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Re: 12v panels
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2006, 07:50:35 PM »
In addition to Ghurd's statement, make sure you use nice big fat wires to keep the I2R losses to a minimum. --tom
« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 07:50:35 PM by Tom in NH »

badmoonryzn

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Re: 12v panels
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2006, 08:32:06 PM »
That is the way to up your amps and keep your voltage the same and I agree with G- bring down the wires to a useable place so you do not have to go up on the roof to make any changes if you need to in the future. Then there is to solder or not to solder?? Well that will get you all kinds of opinions. I use to solder everything but now I use a compression crimp with the new epoxy filled shrink tubing. The compression crimp uses a metal crimp tube that in without plastic covering. The crimping dies have a dimple in the jaws and there is no way you can pull it apart without tearing the wire in half. I have run tens of thousands of wires in my life and heaven knows how many connections. I have tried everything I could think of because if it failed not only would I be held responsible, but someone could be hurt or suffer in some way so I always tried to stay at the cutting edge of the technology.


I tried the new low temp solder type that when you heat the shrink wrap the solder melts and sticks the wire together and a big bunch of heat activated epoxy melts and holds it all together too, but vibration caused the connections to fail often in the first year. I told the manufacture what was happening and they told me it was our electricians. Oh well, that ended us using that junk so beware! They are much too costly anyway. If you don't use the dimple compression crimp then solder and shrink-wrap it with a quality heat shrink tubing. Some of them even come reinforced with fibres in the tubing. Make sure you get one that stays flexible so they don't break or crack. When you solder use clean stripped wire, a good 60-40 electrical solder and strip it back a half inch, add a shrink wrap tube and give it one half inch over the edges of the trim, push the wires together on a horizontal plane where they go inside each other and look like they would if there was no cut, then mash them together so none of the strands stick out. Solder them together as quickly as possible, making sure the solder flows freely, so the joint doesn't overheat.


You want a shinny solder finish. If it is a dull finish it was moved before hardening or not hot enough or too hot, otherwise known as a cold solder joint. Even if they may hold they could have a high resistance and can cause problems on top of breaking. Soldering seems easy, but it can cause all kinds of problems with electricity if done poorly. Yea, I know it's just soldering. But a poorly done solder joint can be the same as adding a 2 - 10 ohmm resistor. It can heat up and melt the solder or cause other seemingly impossible problems, If you can use the compression dimple crimp, use it because it is strong, almost water tight by it's self and will last for years without problems. I have used them in 12, 24 and 48 volt connections with out an appreciable raise in resistance for years. Half of them were on outside vehicles. Oh one other problem soldering has if you use too much heat it will temper the copper and make it quite brittle, it will break if it is in a vibrating situation. I hope this info is useful to someone. Good luck. And happy sailing!

Badmoon

« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 08:32:06 PM by badmoonryzn »

ghurd

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Re: 12v panels
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2006, 09:24:01 PM »
I don't trust the low temp solder, so I solder on standard crimp terminals, with standard rosin core solder.  Old crimp connections have too many problems.  I like to let the solder wick down stranded wire a little way, so the first half inch is stiff. It may help with the issues of breaking or internal corrosion.

Heat shrink with the built in glue is great stuff.  I never use tape.


And Soapman, the theme seems to be avoid a problem, while making one easy to find.

If all 4 sets of wires are soldered together, up under the panels, up on a steep 2nd story roof, then finding a problem with a connection or panel will 'Not be Fun'.


Like Tom said, use big wire.

G-

« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 09:24:01 PM by ghurd »
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badmoonryzn

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Re: 12v panels
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2006, 11:06:17 PM »
 I got my compression crimpers from some tool selling guy. They are way cool. They ratchet four times to get a crimp. There is no way I could get a crimp like that with a standard pliers type. There are six sets of dies in the jaws three to crimp the plastic crimp stuff and three with the eighth inch dimple and hole for the metal crimp holders. They each have dies to contain the materials while you crimp and you get the same crush every time. I have a set of the dimple crimpers from Snap-on and they make a crimp very close to the ones with the ratcheting crimp, but they do not have near the power of the ratcheting ones or the dies to contain the crimp. They are kind of like the ratcheting pruners that will cut a one inch dowel using one hand by a woman. LOL Now I'm going to get it. I crimped two 8 gauge wires into a loop on each end and hooked it to my pickup hitch and a gate. I pulled the damn gate, fence and poles down. Not too smart I guess, but it really surprised me how strong the connection was in that trial. Oh well, my neighbour wasn't to pissed, but he sure liked the crimping tool. LOL
« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 11:06:17 PM by badmoonryzn »

richhagen

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Re: 12v panels
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2006, 01:35:28 AM »
As has been pointed out, the biggest problems tend to be bad wiring connections and such.  I wound up building a box which is on my roof to combine the inputs of the panels so that I can test each panel individually for volts and amps.  Also I use one larger cable to bring the power down.  Here is the post, although since I have switched to a 48V system for the box and most of my panels:

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/12/12/232315/76

That box is mounted on a flat roof and is easy to get at if needed.  


Rich

« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 01:35:28 AM by richhagen »
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Soapman

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Re: 12v panels
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2006, 06:17:24 AM »
Thanks for all the help.  I have then wired up and they seem to be working. As usual, as soon as I put them up it got dark and then clouded over. The sun is just barely showing through this morning. I tried a quick test and got 14.4 volts. I tried to get the amps but my meter won't let me for some reason. Maybe time for a new meter,this one was cheap and is now getting old. When I get a proper reading I'll post an up date. Thanks again.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 06:17:24 AM by Soapman »

ghurd

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Re: 12v panels
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2006, 06:45:01 AM »
You blew the fuse. Maybe. I do that 5 times a day. LOL.

G-
« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 06:45:01 AM by ghurd »
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AbyssUnderground

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Re: 12v panels
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2006, 12:02:44 PM »
Don't forget you might need to change the red probe to the amps socket.


Don't forget to change it back after or you might short out something you regret! (battery for example)

« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 12:02:44 PM by AbyssUnderground »

Soapman

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Re: 12v panels
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2006, 05:18:56 PM »
Oops. I forgot to switch the wire. Now I just have to wait a week for some sun shine :-) Live and learn.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 05:18:56 PM by Soapman »