my dump controller

[XOKE]

Hi everybody, my name is Pedro and I live in Portugal, since a long time ago that I follow this forum.

By my mystake this topic is also post at reviews

When I decide to build my own wind generator, I check on the web for information

My preferences go for Hugh Piggott model,
 
I contact with him and he was a very good helpful

I build an 8 foot machine 12 volt model



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmexEzw43g8

I still contact him every time I have a doubt

Now I need a dump system, the best idea about that it was air heater, because I don't have any appliance at home for use at dump system

I search for a DIY for controllers and I have found two
 
http://www.fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,141564.html

I build the first one and its working, not the way its describe, and I'm testing him, I connect the DC cable direct to batteries, so I don't use any relay, I wish to use the signal from IRF 510 to activate the IRF Z44N, the test point A I´ll set him for 14, 4 Volts and the test point B for 14, 3 Volts, hope that works.



The second I have follow the instructions from GHurd controller. (Now I know that it was cheaper and easy buy the kit), well if it doesn't work fine ill buy a kit.



I believe for the post about the kit that it was the best one.

My dump system has 8 resisters that I build at home, I use ceramic pipes from scrap, the box and wires was from a dead UPS, the pieces of aluminum and fans were from damage computer power supply.








I have followed the schematics from Mr GHurd, and I can say that was a great help for the job

I have these two breakers; it´s a good idea put then between the batteries and the dump box. I can use then in case of any problem?



This is what I have done, maybe next days I can share more with all forum users,

Sorry for my english
 
Thanks for yours post, because help too

Regards

Pedro Bernardo

[ghurd]

Looks like a lot of fun!

"I wish to use the signal from IRF 510 to activate the IRF Z44N"
Instead of doing that, replace the IRF510 with IRFZ44N.
It can drive many IRFZ44N.
Only use one 100K resistor for all the IRFZ44N mosfets.
G-

[XOKE]

Ok

I will change the IRF 510 for IRFZ 44N

“Only use one 100K resistor for all the IRFZ44N mosfets”

What do you mean about that? Do you refer this 100K resistor?



I Will do it soon I have free time

For now Im very busy for NATO summit Lisbon 2010

Regards

Pedro Bernardo

[ghurd]

The old circuit can switch many mosfets.
It is important they all share the same 100K resistor going from G to S on the "relay out" mosfets.

If they each have their own 100K resistor from G to S, the Gate voltage can be too low to be good.

Try to enjoy the summit.  History is being made, and you will be there.
I do not know if the history will be good or bad, but you will be able to say you were there when it happened!
G-

[XOKE]

Thank´s Mr G.

like i said, soon i can i´ll do the modifications

And test the other circuit too (your version)

for the first i think you mean this modifications?



Thank´s

Pedro

[ghurd]

That is NOT it at all.

I am very hesitant to post any type of "fix" to that bioelectrifier wind charge controller circuit at all.
It is a very bad design.
It is a very VERY bad design.

I meant to connect all IRF510 Gates and Sources together.
And each Drain must have a separtate load.
And the IRF510s are replaced with something relatively modern, like an IRFZ44N.

If that is what you meant then yes.

However, the entire concept of the load being connected to the turbine will result in a catastrophic failure.
Eventually.
(this could be your turbine-  http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/7600/Oct_28_2008.jpg )

And that is why any decent dump load controler is connected to the battery.
Not the turbine.
G-

[snake21]

hi friend,how much power will your dump load dissipate?

[XOKE]

Hi snake21,

I have 8 resistors with 2.4 ohm each one

connected to 8 FET IRFZ44N

if each one dump 6 amps at 14,4 Volts (voltage set for dump) it will dump about 86 watts (8 x 86 watts = 688 Watts)

i use this site to do my calc.

http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslawcalculators.asp

theres about 30% of the total power output turbine

Regards

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

Hi snake21,

I have 8 resistors with 2.4 ohm each one

connected to 8 FET IRFZ44N

if each one dump 6 amps at 14,4 Volts (voltage set for dump) it will dump about 86 watts (8 x 86 watts = 688 Watts)

i use this site to do my calc.

http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslawcalculators.asp

theres about 30% of the total power output turbine

Sounds like you need to dump about 3 1/2 times as much then.  Your dump load should be larger than the total generation.  Otherwise when the wind comes up you'll overcharge your batteries.

[snake21]

hi xoke,

your dump load should be more than the turbine maxpoweror else your battery will be overcharged.

an 8' turbine on an average produces 700w,according to hugh book.so,your dump should be around 900w or more of power dissipation.

some friends have even seen 1.5kw or more from their 8' turbine

so  just beware.

[XOKE]

Hi snake21

thank´s, but my turbine its a little bit different than Hugh´s book, I made my with 1,6 mm wire instead 1,7mm, so the output should be a little lower

maybe between 500 watts and 600 watts

but I really consider the idea of put more resistors

Regards

Pedro

[fabricator]

Pedro, are you hooking your dump load direct to the turbine or the batteries?

[XOKE]

Hi,

Thee dump load are connected direct to the batteries, not to turbine

About the circuit breakers i need to change then for changeover circuit, most save

Pedro

[XOKE]

Hi guys

How know the valor I should read at the middle pit of the pot

2, 7 k ohms it's close to 14 Volts

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]

Anyone can tell me how much it's for 14, 4 Volts

I don't have any power supply for test

Thanks for help
 
xoke

[fabricator]

If you have a battery charger that will put out enough amps to get to 14 volts you could use that.

[XOKE]

ok maybe i ask it for a friend



Xoke

[TomW]

2.7 / 14 = X / 14.4

or

14  / 2.7 = 14.4 / X 

[works either way being a simple ratio evaluation]

X ~= 2.7777

That is where I would start.

They told me algebra would come in handy and it does!

Basic DC circuits 101 stuff really.

Tom

[XOKE]

Ok Tom

thanks, I dont know it was proporcional and use that simple formula (i have already learned at school)

need a refresh

xoke

[ghurd]

The math is correct.
The 14V is not correct.

This is another place where some things are not as obvious as they first appear.
A couple things have been left out.

(Vbattery) - 0.7VfD1 - 5.1VZd1 = Pot voltage.

14.4V - 0.7V - 5.1V = 8.6V.  So 8.6V on the pot, when adjusted to approximately 2.7K center-to-ground will trigger at approximately 14.4V.

14.0V - 0.7V - 5.1V = 8.2V.  So 8.6V on the pot, when adjusted to approximately 2.8K center-to-ground will trigger at approximately 14.0V.

Remember, unless using the originally specified ZM part number, it is mostly a guess.
And the tolerances of any part in the string have a window of acceptable tolerances, so it is all approximately, and the circuit needs calibrated either way.

Substitute part numbers have different latent characteristics, and it will effect the set point and circuit's actual operation characteristics.

G-

[XOKE]

Ok. Mr G. Hurd,

I have just right now connect the controller to the battery (only 12,46 volt - theres no wind for 3 days)

When I adjust the center bolt from the pot  for both sides the led (dump) turn on and off.

I think the controller might be good

Tomorrow I connect to my battery car (running) and test the controller for dump

Thanks

xoke

[ghurd]

Yes.  It works!  Good job.

While running, the car battery is usually at a good, acceptable voltage to calibrate the controller.
G-

[TomW]

The math is correct.
The 14V is not correct.

This is another place where some things are not as obvious as they first appear.
A couple things have been left out.

(Vbattery) - 0.7VfD1 - 5.1VZd1 = Pot voltage.

14.4V - 0.7V - 5.1V = 8.6V.  So 8.6V on the pot, when adjusted to approximately 2.7K center-to-ground will trigger at approximately 14.4V.

14.0V - 0.7V - 5.1V = 8.2V.  So 8.6V on the pot, when adjusted to approximately 2.8K center-to-ground will trigger at approximately 14.0V.

Remember, unless using the originally specified ZM part number, it is mostly a guess.
And the tolerances of any part in the string have a window of acceptable tolerances, so it is all approximately, and the circuit needs calibrated either way.

Substitute part numbers have different latent characteristics, and it will effect the set point and circuit's actual operation characteristics.

G-

Some folks just like to be contrary.

No more free beer deliveries to you.

Tom

[XOKE]

HI guys,

I have tested it today, i connect the controller to my car battery (running)

I turn the bolt pot and the led  (dump) turn on and off, the voltage for dump it was 14,4 volts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6jAKvgzuQ&feature=BF&list=ULQNRiBId4yLg&index=3

I think it´s fine?





Before i connect then to dump box ill trie it in just one resistor and FET.

Just to make sure everything  it ok

Soon ill post more

Regards

Xoke

[snake21]

hi friend,you need to know the type of battery you are using before setting the dump voltage.it is 14.4v for flooded and 13.8v for sealed

[XOKE]

Hi snake21

this is the kind of batteries i have

12 V 53 Ah, they are used for remote system





I have 5. Total of 315 Ah

Ill buy this week another one, and then I have 378 Ah

If I´m wrong about the voltage for dump please help me

regards

Xoke

[snake21]

i believe that dumping power should start @ 13.8v not 14.4v.if it is flooded,meaning with water caps,i think the dump voltage can be @ 14.4v but if there is no watering caps,it is sealed,then the dump voltage should be 13.8v.if it is sealed and the dump voltage is 14.4v ,your battery will get damaged.

post a pic of the top view of the battery

[XOKE]

hi snake21

the batteries are sealed,

so, the dump most be set at 13,8 V ?

thanks

Xoke

[XOKE]

Hi one more time

Need help about the dump voltage for my tipe of batteries



they are the 12MF63 model

thnaks for spend time

Xoke

[XOKE]

I think that I really found the specifications for my type of batteries

http://www.eleceargentina.com.ar/Baterias/ETP%20Moura%20MC.pdf

Theres in portuguese (they are made in Brasil)

The floating voltage are between 13,2 and 13,4 volts

So I think the dump must set at 13,4?

Hope be right

Xoke

[ghurd]

The voltage you want depends on what you read and what you choose to believe.

I believe if the battery will be used and needs recharging, then 13.8V is good.

If the battery is very rarely used, and spends most of its life doing nothing, then 13.2~13.4V is good.
G-

[snake21]

ya,ghurd is right.if your battery sits in a corner doing nothing,then the dump voltage should be around 13.2v to13.4v.if there is constant charging and discharging,then the dump load should be around 13.8v.i believe in your ase,it should be 13.8v.

batteries costs equal or more than the turbine.maintaining the batteries will make their life longer but before,it is important to know battery technology a bit.

these battery stuffs was a big confusion for me but with the great help of ghurd and others,i could understand a bit how battery works.

[snake21]

i forgot to ask you a question.what is the max power output you have seen from your system?

[XOKE]

HI thanks for the spend time, all have been a great help for me

I really dont be confortable about battery technology.

Yes, the batteries will be charged and used, thats why I build a turbine

The Turbine its a Hugh Piggott 8 foot model, 12v system, Cut speed 210 rpm, I use 1,6mm wire instead of 1,7mm, so the output will be around the 500W and not 700W like Hugh´s last model.

I have seen very close to 500w, for the lack of controller the turbine spend most of the turbine shunt down.

The turbine have already resist to a storm with winds 120 KM/h, (on brake).

I have another project that i have already start, thats another 8 foot turbine, thats exactly Hugh´s model except the stator and rotors.

Soon I have something really good to show ill put here (i hope be right).

Regards

Xoke