Author Topic: vinyl ester questions and suppliers (Read 6517 times)

picmacmillan · « **on:** December 05, 2010, 01:45:35 PM »

i have been looking to buy some vinyl ester....from what i have seen on others here the color is green...from what i read there is some different colors also..like pink, and black...also it says you need a promoter??? ..i the color doesn't matter to me, just getting the right type is....i am looking for a supplier i can purchase some...preferably in Ontario Canada...Toronto?, or even better Windsor....i need it to encase my magnets on my rotors, and to build another stator...so if anyone can suggest a company to buy it, and maybe even give me an idea of how much i need, and of what type, ballpark figure on cost etc..?,...it would be appreciated.....thanks..randy

dsmith1427 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 06, 2010, 07:57:26 AM »

Michigan fiberglass is on the other side of the lake in St. Clair Shores, Michigan. They ship but I am not shore if they ship to Canada. You can call them and ask. They were very helpful when I spoke with them. Their website is as follows:

http://www.michiganfiberglass.com/

I hope this helps.

Don

picmacmillan · « **Reply #2 on:** December 06, 2010, 08:54:50 AM »

thanks don...that is an option as i have family in windsor and ill be there for the holidays...randy...anyone else have a place it would be appreciated also?...as there is potential customers all over the globe that will likely use it

bradyaero · « **Reply #3 on:** December 06, 2010, 09:28:00 AM »

Hi Pic,

Try Noah's boatbuilding supply in Toronto thats where I get my epoxy. (It's near the 427)

picmacmillan · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2010, 09:34:38 AM »

thanks noah for the company name will give them a call ..

itsandbits · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2010, 12:20:35 PM »

not up on the terminology but wouldn't fibreglass resin work that you can get at ant building supply or Can.Tire

Rover · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2010, 04:29:54 PM »

That is normally polyester resin not vinyl ester , and usually not of the highest quality.

picmacmillan · « **Reply #7 on:** December 07, 2010, 08:29:50 AM »

hi its...a lot of people were having trouble with fiberglass and resin..some shrinking and cracking....the vinyl ester can handle(from what i have read) 300 degrees farenheit...our stators get really hot...fiberglass didnt seem to be the best..i have a new stator here that started to crack..it was just sitting in the shed...also i had encased my magnets a bit in the resin...when the turbine fell( i was taking it down and a cable broke)...the whole circle of magnets moved over about a quarter of an inch....i will show a photo of it as i get going on my build here...for me the fiberglass worked ok....but just ok...from what i have seen and read, vinyl ester shrinks less, and can handle more heat.....to me its worth the extra cost to get some...take care...randy

itsandbits · « **Reply #8 on:** December 07, 2010, 08:12:43 PM »

thanks for the heads up, I am just getting my mags this week

picmacmillan · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2010, 07:15:13 AM »

i looked up the michigan fiberglass place..for any canadians?..they do deliver to windsor, london, kitchener and toronto.....maybe eve more places,,,the cost is a bit less than a hundred bucks a gallon.....i do have another question....with this vinyl ester?? do you need a "promoter"....i read that word is promoter like the hardener for fiberglass....i mean that you must mix some in to activate it??..any help would be appreciated...thanks in advance randy

Rover · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2010, 04:53:19 PM »

Normally I refere to it as catalyst , and yes you will need some, be surprised if it doesn't come with some. When you order if it does come with it, order some, get a little more than needed..

its MEKP , methyl ethtyl ketone peroxide, same stuff used for polyester resin. (worse case you can pick some up at your local hardware or automotive store)

If you call it hardener , they will understand

Randomthoughts · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2010, 01:03:31 PM »

While looking at the suppliers, I noticed that one stated a 3 month shelf life. Is that for unopened containers? I want to buy enough for several stators, but the cost savings on the bulk buy disappears if the stuff goes bad before I can use it all.

picmacmillan · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2010, 01:10:58 PM »

thats a good question there random..i was thinking the same thing...when i order it, i am going to ask them that exact question...maybe some of the guys that use vinyl ester already can pipe up and give us some insight on that(its shelf life)...., and a sidebar to that is, how much do we need to build a stator with it, or how much do we need to encase our magnets so they dont move?

...i am guessing its the same amount we used using fiberglass resin...and to be honest i forget if i just used one can on the big 17' turbine stator or 2?? ..i see where keeping good notes applies

.....randy

ghurd · « **Reply #13 on:** December 11, 2010, 01:18:31 PM »

Check the local semi truck parts places.
Save on the S&H.
The last one I was in had sevaral sizes of both kinds, all with 1/4" of dust on them, so I wouldn't be overly concerned about going a little past the stated shelf life.
G-

Boss · « **Reply #14 on:** December 11, 2010, 03:24:05 PM »

Quote

how much do we need to encase our magnets so they dont move?Huh

I thought the general consensus here was the magnets don't need resin to keep them from moving?

Harold in CR · « **Reply #15 on:** December 11, 2010, 04:28:49 PM »

Word of caution. That stuff is more toxic than Polyester Resin. Used to build Ocean race Boats with that stuff and kevlar. Had to work in 2 man shifts, down in the mold. Get in- get out, or, you had to be dragged out.

No kidding, LOTS of ventilation is a must.

TomW · « **Reply #16 on:** December 11, 2010, 04:55:18 PM »

Quote from: Boss on December 11, 2010, 03:24:05 PM

I thought the general consensus here was the magnets don't need resin to keep them from moving?

I thought it was still undecided? Seems there are strong opinions from both sides on that.

Maybe I missed the deciding debate? It was debated in depth several times.

Tom

Boss · « **Reply #17 on:** December 11, 2010, 05:12:02 PM »

Quote

I thought it was still undecided? Seems there are strong opinions from both sides on that.

Okay good to know
Reading and researching is very good, but I'm reminded that assumption is the mother of fools.
There is so much inf here, hard to sort it all out at times

JW · « **Reply #18 on:** December 11, 2010, 05:26:28 PM »

http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php?action=search2

JW

JW · « **Reply #19 on:** December 11, 2010, 05:34:08 PM »

last one didnt work, try this-

http://www.fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,138006.html

JW

Boss · « **Reply #20 on:** December 11, 2010, 08:07:30 PM »

thanks Tom I'll read that thread again

picmacmillan · « **Reply #21 on:** December 13, 2010, 03:49:56 PM »

hi there boss...i can only give you my limited experience (been at this since about 2002)member here since 2004..but..

when i used to stick the magnets to the rotor i used to use gorilla glue, then encase the magnets(about a half inch deep or so) on the rotors..

.ill try and put the photo's i have up of the whole encasement moving...i was worried about angular velocity, and thinking the speed might spit the magnets out...the only time i seen them move was when i had forgot to short the machine out while i was away, and my blades just blew off the turbine..we had about 60 mile an hour winds if i recall...i never did find one of them and i have 160 acres to search..but anyhow..when we brought the turbine down..one of the ropes i was using broke..the turbine dropped and when i i investigated the damage i saw that all the magnets in the bolt circle had shifted to one side..although the fiberglass resin didnt brake or anything..so maybe this was an isolated incident, and maybe you could say the fiberglass did its job...i think when the guys are talking about shrinking and cracking, it is with the bigger machines which i am building now....the stator has cracked a bit just sitting in the shed for this 17' machine i am building(i had built it prior, but hadnt completed the whole project)...it was built using fiberglass and resin....it costs a bit of money to make one of these bigger stators...might save somebody a couple bucks if we hash this detail out a bit

..its the fun part of the learning curve i suppose

..take care...randy

Rover · « **Reply #22 on:** December 13, 2010, 04:28:51 PM »

I've not cast a stator, but I have cast a lot epoxy items. Cracking for me usually means a bad (hot) mix. I always use some kind of additive to prevent cracking, milled fiberglass fibers (powder) etc.

I do this irregardless of the type of resin to add strength.

talbott · « **Reply #23 on:** December 13, 2010, 06:44:38 PM »

Pickster

I believe Chases' marine just east of Tilbury carries the complete West line including vinyl resin and ATH. Thats only a big half hour from Windsor. I will find out for sure since I need some too. Hows things up Nort' ?

The farmer

Randomthoughts · « **Reply #24 on:** December 23, 2010, 11:36:04 AM »

A Western Canada Supplier for vinyl ester is Viking Plastics in Edmonton www.vikingplastics.ca The guy I dealt with was Mike, and he was very helpful, and is going to bring in some ATH powder for me as well in the new year, and keep some on hand. The shelf life is the difference between activated resin and non-activated. Two chemicals are added to the resin to activate it, once that happens the shelf life is reduced from over a year to a couple of months. The catch is that the catalyst is explosive with the activators in pure form, big warnings not to store them in the same cupboard in case or leaks, so cannot be shipped together. (I put the catalyst in the glove box, and the rest of the stuff in the back. Wouldn't want a simple fender-bender to cause more excitement than required)

ged · « **Reply #25 on:** March 28, 2011, 11:35:01 AM »

I know its a little late probably but I bought my vinyl ester at the Brantford,Ontario airport.Most aviation places have it or can get it.

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Author Topic: vinyl ester questions and suppliers (Read 6517 times)