Designing and Building a Practical VAWT

[MagnetJuice]

Adriaan, here is a better explanation:

On your report, KD 599, you have this link:

www.greenenergywindturbine.com/download/vawt/760131.pdf

That link doesn't work because that website (greenenergywindturbine.com) is OUT-OF-BUSINESS and FOR-SALE.

So I did a search and found the PDF that you were linking to. That PDF deals with the testing of TWO and Three-Bucket Savonius Rotors by Sandia Laboratories. I provided the new link to where I found the PDF, which is this:

www.vawt.om2cm.sk/sites/default/files/2or3savonius.pdf

Maybe you want to update your KD 599 report and add the link to where the PDF is still available.

I hope this is clear.
________

By the way, this is an interesting thread. I would like to encourage Elemental Madness and topspeed to continue with their experiments. With the guidance of ULR, electrondady1, Adriaan and others, it could be possible to come up with a practical VAWT design that is easy to build.

As I said before, a HAWT mounted on a high tower would be ideal to produce power from the wind. Not everybody has the land or the money to pay for and erect a tall tower. There are millions of people around the world that have strong surface winds and would like to be able to make a little power, and for them, a VAWT would be ideal.

What choices do we have? There is the Darrieus, patented by Georges Jean Marie Darrieus, a French engineer, in 1926. And the Savonius, invented by the Finnish engineer Sigurd Johannes Savonius in 1922 and patented in 1925.

The Darrieus needs fast winds to start turning and then they spin so fast that end up self-destroying. The Savonius turns too slow to produce any power with the home made axial flux alternators that we build today.

We need to combine the H-Darrieus and the Savonius into one design that would start in low winds and would not go so fast that it blows to pieces. 

We don't have to depend on designs that are over 90 years old. We can learn from them, but this is 2019 for crying out loud!!!

It is time to re-invent the wheel. We can do it RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW.

If you are a guest reading this, I encourage you to join the Forum and help us design a VAWT for the 21st century.

Here is a design that I have been working on for a long time. I am presenting it here for your consideration and critique. I hope that we can improve it and someone can build a prototype for testing. I call it the Darivonius 2020.

Ed

[Mary B]

Many are using a lift type wing for a VAWT. Similar to these https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Aluminum-blade-blanks-WindSeeker-Southwest-501-505-VAWT-vertical-42-X2-5/332495413230?hash=item4d6a455fee:g:LZQAAOSw34FVBelm the designs I have seen use an adjustable bracket to hold the wing so angle of attack can be tweaked to match your generator head.

[MagnetJuice]

Thank you Mary, it seems like you are also interested in generating a little power. All I want at this time is something that can produce a little power.

If we can come up with a VAWT that is easy to build and can generate a few hundred watts, the same design can be made bigger for those that want a Kilowatt or more.

I am totally convinced that we have the talent here so let's do it.

Ed

[JW]

MJ I think we all are impressed with your enthusiasm...

Bear in mind that you are hijacking this thread

I dont think there is any way, to do what you are wanting to do without making a new topic and go from there. I think your ideas will be addressed so users can collaborate with your new topic  

JW

[MagnetJuice]

Maybe you're right. I got carried away, sorry about that.

Ed

[JW]

Your ok MJ,

Just start it on a new topic anytime. Make the new topic and your able to do whatever you want there. I think that you will get some good stuff as development here

JW

[mbouwer]

Good idea MagnetJuice and JW.
If its possible I want to join the actual building itself.

[Adriaan Kragten]

Adriaan, here is a better explanation:

On your report, KD 599, you have this link:

www.greenenergywindturbine.com/download/vawt/760131.pdf

That link doesn't work because that website (greenenergywindturbine.com) is OUT-OF-BUSINESS and FOR-SALE.

So I did a search and found the PDF that you were linking to. That PDF deals with the testing of TWO and Three-Bucket Savonius Rotors by Sandia Laboratories. I provided the new link to where I found the PDF, which is this:

www.vawt.om2cm.sk/sites/default/files/2or3savonius.pdf

Maybe you want to update your KD 599 report and add the link to where the PDF is still available.

Report KD 599 has been reviewed. The link to the report "Wind Tunnel Performances Data for Two- and Three-bucket Savonius rotors" has been changed.

A self starting, 3-bladed Darrieus rotor which is not using a Savonius rotor to get a positive starting torque at low rotational speeds, is described in my public report KD 601 from 2015.

[Mary B]

Thank you Mary, it seems like you are also interested in generating a little power. All I want at this time is something that can produce a little power.

If we can come up with a VAWT that is easy to build and can generate a few hundred watts, the same design can be made bigger for those that want a Kilowatt or more.

I am totally convinced that we have the talent here so let's do it.

Ed

I have 2400 watts of solar installed. Wind here takes a very robust design... winter storms with 2-3 days of 60mph+ winds, summer t-storms with 95+mph straight line winds...

[MagnetJuice]

OK JW, it seems like a good idea to start a new topic on this.

I can start one tomorrow. Right now I have to finish my Honey Brown.

I hope that there would be enough interest to collaborate together and design and build a working VAWT for the masses 

Ed

[SparWeb]

MagnetJuice,
Great idea - and maintain practical goals for performance, build-ability and safety.

I've experimented with VAWTs.  Had a good start with mine.  Once I tried to generate power, however, I went looking for performance that the machine couldn't deliver.
Aerodynamically it could be done, but structurally the machine had a lot of problems.  Basically, the "metronome" vibration mode was going to make it blow up if I didn't take it down.  To solve that problem I needed a very heavy driveshaft, making all other components bigger and more expensive.  I only had a ~20 square foot (2 m^2) swept area so it was never going to take in more than 500 Watts, but the machinery to make it stable was going to cost more than a thousand dollars.

To learn from my mistakes, you will want to work around a heavy-wall tube or solid steel central shaft.  If you want a 5-foot (1.5m) tall VAWT then the shaft needs to be 2 inch (50mm) diameter if it's solid, and if you want a tubular shaft then go with 3".  That tube will actually be lighter than the 2" solid shaft, but it will demand more costly bearings.  The VAWT stands tall like a mast, and forces on the top will bend it easily if it's not surprisingly rigid.

Also something that I'd suggest trying is to taper it like a pine-tree.  Not necessarily pointy on top but reduce the diameter so that there's less kinetic energy flinging the top of the mast around.  You might be concerned about the aerodynamics by doing that, but really it's not a big deal to make the blades taper from bottom to top, too.


JW,
Do you mind if I do some "housecleaning" on this thread?  Now that it's been split, it looks funny to read so much discussion of splitting it.
I would remove Replies #3,4,5,7,10,11, and ask MagnetJuice to edit #12.

[mbouwer]

@Sparweb,
So the striving is not a design like this one, but a tapered tube central shaft.

[topspeed]

@Sparweb,
So the striving is not a design like this one, but a tapered tube central shaft.

A bit like this ?

[oneirondreamer]

Hello Magnetjuice, and all.

I have been thinking and working around practical VAWT's for a while.    I have a patent from 2007, for my previous design.    I'd post links but I'm not allowed to yet.   I had an account here previously as oneirondreamer but no longer have access to the email address associated with the account, so I've started again.   

I've just released my construction notes on my latest VAWT, which is most likely doesn't look anything like what you'd expect a VAWT to look like, as an instructable.    it should be findable on the instructables site by searching my username there drewrt  , again, sorry not to attach a link, but when(if?) the moderators allow me to I'll come back and add links.

I've also posted my construction and testing notes on my axial flux alternator.   I'm going to need some help in making sure that I get my test equipment set up right, but I should probably start my own thread for that.   

[MagnetJuice]

Hi Drew, I replied to your post on the other Topic about VAWT's. I will not post anymore on this thread.

Ed