Author Topic: New Tower Build  (Read 7702 times)

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SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2021, 12:30:16 AM »
I actually did take a video, but I'm having some issues with the file. 
Up until recently, I have used Adobe Photoshop for most of my photo and video editing.  Well apparently it doesn't want to work any more.
I wasted an hour today trying to fix it but now all I can say is every Adobe product is uninstalled from my computer and I'm still no closer.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2021, 12:33:17 AM »
I got a vanity shot of it with a bit of sunshine, just at the end of the day.

14542-0
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bigrockcandymountain

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2021, 08:19:10 AM »
Oh boy that is what success looks like.  Great job and congratulations.

70' wow i think your gin pole is likely taller than my tower.  I bet those 3 minutes seems like 3 hours. 

electrondady1

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2021, 08:41:51 AM »
congratulations . that is quite an accomplishment
 

clockmanFRA

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2021, 11:06:27 AM »
Yes, Congratulations from me as well.

Nice to see the young lady flying again!
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
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SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #71 on: December 13, 2021, 04:21:05 PM »
Quote
I bet those 3 minutes seems like 3 hours.

Oh, and as the cable winds on, the winch vibrates, sending a buzzy hum through the ENTIRE structure. 
If you've ever watched a winch operate, you've probably seen the wraps seeking the gap in the wrap under them, sometimes shifting with a "snap".
That SNAP is also amplified through the whole damn structure.

Bring me my brown pants, now.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #72 on: December 14, 2021, 12:09:00 AM »
I've been looking for a week, and still can't find the current sensor loops that I used to have on the power leads. 
I was a bit too aggressive when removing the wiring coming from the old tower, before moving the shed.
Now I can't find all the pieces.
---
EDIT: I spoke too soon - I found 'em.  But I can't install them now!

It's blowing mightily tonight but I can't measure Amps on the datalogger... 
At least the RPM's are in the right range...
« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 12:38:37 AM by SparWeb »
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #73 on: December 14, 2021, 12:37:58 AM »
Wind is varying between 20-30 kph according to the weather station, but the thing is already partly furled.  It's getting a workout up there.  The diversion load is going regularly.  Even the cooling fans come on!  I haven't heard those fans start for years.  It's a lot windier up there.  Which is what they tell you...
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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Mary B

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #74 on: December 14, 2021, 02:11:33 PM »
Congrats! Now that you need a calm day a storm system is approaching LOL

gsw999

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #75 on: December 14, 2021, 06:13:21 PM »
I salute you brother , the workmanship looks top quality all round , If you get any video/s would love to see it in action.

SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #76 on: December 14, 2021, 07:57:48 PM »
Outside temperature is -16C, but inside the battery cabinet, it's a toasty +12C!

Happiness is a warm battery.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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Mary B

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #77 on: December 15, 2021, 12:27:33 PM »
Is that just from residual battery heat or do you actively heat that space? I had an insulated battery box and they got to cold in deep winter when it dropped to -30f at night.

SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #78 on: December 15, 2021, 11:15:43 PM »
A couple of factors:
  • The temperature dropped in one day by 5 degrees C (9F)
  • The turbine has been delivering 10-20 amps the whole time
  • The diversion load has been left with temperature compensation On
  • The temperature compensation raised bank voltage to about 29.5V

So even with the diversion load taking some of the current, there was still lots of charging going on.  Also, as the battery warmed up, it could absorb more charge, so there was actually more current flowing through the cells than there would be with the battery holding at a constant temperature. 

In a sense, this is the precursor of "thermal runaway" and if unchecked by the diversion load, could be bad.  Normally I have a switch to cut out the Tristar's temperature sensor when it's cold, so that it starts diversion at 28.2 Volts instead of the compensated value.  Since the batteries had been resting uncharged for a couple of months as I moved everything over, I thought a nice top-up to overflowing would be OK, and the weather was obliging with lots of wind.  Also because it's cold enough that -16C (outside) +28C=12C inside the box, and not +10C +28C=38C inside the box, which would be a crazy hot battery and awful.

Now that it's quiet, and not turning, I can go disconnect the POS cable from the battery terminal for a minute to slide on the current sensor ring.  I had no way to measure performance during the last few days' storm except by holding a clamp meter.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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topspeed

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #79 on: December 16, 2021, 02:51:22 AM »
Really awesome set up SW ! ;)
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

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kitestrings

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2021, 03:43:18 PM »
You must be getting tested?  We've had crazy high winds in the last few weeks, including today.  Hope all's holding together for you.

SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2021, 06:52:22 PM »
Sure am.
It comes to a stop for a tantalizing few minutes, only while I'm busy with work. Can't get away to put that current sensor ring on the cable.  Finished up work again today with some hope - no, there's a breeze again.
I guess I could throw the braking switch but it's also -20C and not fun doing fiddly work outside.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #82 on: December 18, 2021, 01:22:55 AM »
Kitestrings,

Should I do anything to prevent the drop-cable from swinging around?
I've heard a slapping sound and I think it's the cable (it's usually dark when I finish work and go check on things).
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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clockmanFRA

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #83 on: December 18, 2021, 06:22:10 AM »
Welcome to the Boat Mariner and the yacht masts.

All my lot slap inside the poles since 2007.

Interestingly they change tone when they twist, (i don't have slip rings).

So if they start getting tight and twisted excessively inside the main mast the slapping increases.

I feel sure you could make a slapping sound meter.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (15 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (11 yrs) .. 25kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah batter

kitestrings

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #84 on: December 18, 2021, 07:47:19 AM »
If it is in the tube section at the top, you might look at these plastic pre-formed widgets that they use in drilled wells to keep the wire & piping centered to the pump.

In the guyed tower section - more likely where the problem is I suspect - I've had good luck with these rubber shock boots.  We have a "sash weight" on the furling line to keep it taught, and I put one of these boots around it, with a stainless clamp on top, and it works quite well.

SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #85 on: December 18, 2021, 05:36:10 PM »
I guess you mean "boots that cover the motorcycle fork shock absorber piston rods".  That looks like it would protect the cable in a few places.  I'll think about whether I can use that.

I probably don't need to add weight to the cable - 70 feet of #8-4 is about 50 pounds.  I'm sure the Kellems grip is fine, but why push it?

It doesn't sound like you actually have a problem.  Maybe I'm just overreacting to every little noise.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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Mary B

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #86 on: December 19, 2021, 12:20:04 PM »
With the cable hanging down the center of a triangular tower you will get enough movement to eventually fatigue and break a cable. Fix is easy though! Make up a flat with a U bolt each end. One end goes around the tower leg, the other is centered in the  tower and you cable runs thru that center U bolt. I usually add some foam wrap(bicycle hand grip tape works) to the center U bolt and bar to prevent chafing. Only need one of these every 10 feet so a simple fix and even adding one center and 1/4 of the way from the bottom will help a lot until the next time you lower things. Yes you have to climb the tower for this! I use a similar system but on the outside of the antenna tower to keep my cables from flapping in the wind! Being a crank up tower cables need to slide as they come down... heliax coax doesn't like sharp bends so lowering my tower is a slow process of lower, pull cable out away from tower base, lower, pull cable out etc etc etc...

SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2021, 12:35:52 PM »
I get the u-bolts, thanks.  Reminds me of the stand-offs that held the cable on the steerable TV antenna on the house when I was a kid.  They were eye bolts with a swiveling plastic insert that also allowed the coax to twist.

Another thought...  every section of this tower has some unused 3/16" holes.  Those might help me do this.  But U-bolts are a more obvious way to attach things to the legs
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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kitestrings

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #88 on: December 19, 2021, 08:34:45 PM »
So long as they are loose enough to allow the cable to twist freeing, right?  I doubt you will need many - 10' seems overkill for this problem.  It probably doesn't last forever, but UV deterioration will probably make the SO insulation brittle long before the conductor itself is in jeopardy I would think.

Ours hangs free from the head assembly to the twist-lock outlet some 70' below.

Mary B

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #89 on: December 20, 2021, 01:33:17 PM »
I get the u-bolts, thanks.  Reminds me of the stand-offs that held the cable on the steerable TV antenna on the house when I was a kid.  They were eye bolts with a swiveling plastic insert that also allowed the coax to twist.

Another thought...  every section of this tower has some unused 3/16" holes.  Those might help me do this.  But U-bolts are a more obvious way to attach things to the legs

Yup! The old twin lead stand offs, hated those things!  Will it make a difference in cable lifespan? No clue... Will it make it quieter an done less thing annoying me on a windy day? YES! That cable slap against the tower is noisy and travels!

Astro

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #90 on: December 23, 2021, 07:38:05 PM »
I didn't have to wait the usual day to see it start turning.
In violation of the windwright's curse, the wind actually did pick up 3 or 4 hours after it was raised, and even now it's humming along at about 250W in a breeze I can barely feel at ground level.

 Nice build. That is awesome.

SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #91 on: December 24, 2021, 12:50:54 AM »
New problem.

The weather station is on a 30 foot tower.  Well... 29-ish.
The turbine is on a 70-ft tower, plus a few feet of extra elevation.

The wind speed coming to the weather station is nothing like the wind at the tower-top.  Getting strange results when I crunch the data logger's number - but the reason is pretty obvious.  I'll try correcting it with the exponential factor for height - just an approximation.

The real solution will be to put the anemometer on the turbine tower.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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Mary B

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #92 on: December 24, 2021, 01:53:04 PM »
They make a side arm for that tower that is designed to bolt to the legs and can give 4-5 feet of offset to the side. I made one from electrical conduit  by drilling U-bolt holes thru the conduit that gave me 8-9 feet of offset for a 7 foot tall 2 meter antenna. Getting off to the side will help with tower wind shadow errors, placing the anemometer in a spot where you don't see a lot of wind helps too. Mine is on the east side of the tower by the house. East because I am shadowed by town from west winds but I see NW to SW winds a lot, I am east edge of town, the very edge with no houses to my north or south until I go 2 blocks back into town. so no wind blockage like straight west.

At the 70 foot level I wouldn't go more than 5' out... run the conduit or tubing inside the tower with U bolts wrapping around the outside of the legs on that style tower. Something as light weight as the anemometer could be done by climbing but that is a VERY uncomfortable tower to climb with your feet on the outside edges of the X braces, do not climb the center of them! They can bend! They do make tower steps and your tower sounded like it might be drilled for them... basically an 8" long L bolt that is bolted into the tower leg. I have put them in while climbing them! Pain in the butt!

SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #93 on: December 24, 2021, 03:41:29 PM »
Oh golly if I haven't said it enough - I don't want to climb this tower, either!  That was the whole point of making it so easy to tilt. 
3 minutes setting up the anchors, 1 minute to disconnect the upwind anchor, 4 minutes to lower it. 
I can't even get into a climbing harness that fast.

As for mounting, I do have a little "arm" in mind to set the 'mometer away from the tower shadow.  In my area, SE wind is rare and never interesting, so the 'mometer can stick out to the NW.  That will also point it to the side and up when the tower is lowered, not likely to get caught on something on the way up or down.


Hey:  5.5 kWhrs in the past 24 hours.  My wife commented on my constant giggling yesterday.  My only explanation is "I make my own toys".
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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kitestrings

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #94 on: December 24, 2021, 08:37:03 PM »
That’s good production by any measure.

How does it sound?  Any new, different or diminished blade noise?  Is the balance good?  Any other new observations?

SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #95 on: December 24, 2021, 09:08:25 PM »
No, it's still really quiet.

This is hard to describe, but I'll try.  In the "vanity" photo I took on December 14, just to the right is the power service pole on my property.  Transformer "jug" on top of the pole, meter and connection panel at the bottom.  Typical.  Now, have you ever stood beside one of these poles on a windy day?  If you have, then you know they hum.  The flow of wind over the high tension wires causes them to vibrate, and that vibration is conducted to the ground through all of the poles.

My point is, no matter where I stand, close to the turbine or close to the power lines, the hum from the power line is louder than the turbine blades.  If it isn't windy enough to make the power lines hum, then there's nothing to hear either way.  When it is windy, maybe I can hear the turbine blade tips whistle, but hard to notice over the drone/hum of the power lines.

The problem with this explanation is, I think I make it sound like the tower is close to the power lines.  But it isn't (that would be stupid). 

That's also why I can hear the cable slapping the tower rungs, even 250 feet away.

The situation changes when I'm at the base of the tower.  It sounds funny, but it's also interesting to lean my head against a tower leg.  Now I hear lots of stuff going on.  But that's no different from the many-toned vibrations that I could listen to in my last tower.  It's the same turbine so it plays the same "concert".  It hums on a variety of frequencies.  The stator slot vibration is obvious because this is a motor-conversion.  Yawing motions might make a random sliding sound.  There's a little 1/rev oscillation because the blades aren't perfectly balanced.  I suppose if I was there in strong winds I might feel it when the tail furls on and off the stop - but it's winter and I have warmer places to be in a blizzard.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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kitestrings

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #96 on: December 30, 2021, 06:05:26 PM »
Sounds are good; this sounds good.  I'm not sure why you have the cable slapping, and we don't.  Our site is not as open I suspect.  There are lots of trees, softwoods lower, and hardwoods up to I dun'no 50-60' maybe...

The blades are quiet, and well balanced, that's good.  Your attention to detail payed off there, huh.

Right now we have two sounds that I want to eliminate, both are preventable... One is a buzzing.  It is just a lose aluminum piece on the television antenna mounted below the turbine that vibrates at one frequency.  It's pretty low decibel, but I can pick it out.  The second is a hinge squeak that has just started when the tail returns from a fully furled position.  The oil-lite bearings I find occasionally need a hit of dry-lube graphite spray.

SparWeb

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #97 on: December 30, 2021, 07:46:53 PM »
The cable slap has been gone for about a week or so since I "hung" it a little more toward the center of the legs.  If you refer back to my earlier photos, you can see a pair of arms on the hinge-base that extend to support the gin-pole hinge.  It didn't run between those two arms before, although that's what I'd intended all along.  Now that it's run between them, it hangs more centrally down the tower.

As I consider adding an arm for an anemometer, I should keep the secondary vibrations in mind.  Don't want to add a new noise as I add a new feature to the tower.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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Mary B

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Re: New Tower Build
« Reply #98 on: December 31, 2021, 11:28:37 AM »
Sounds are good; this sounds good.  I'm not sure why you have the cable slapping, and we don't.  Our site is not as open I suspect.  There are lots of trees, softwoods lower, and hardwoods up to I dun'no 50-60' maybe...

The blades are quiet, and well balanced, that's good.  Your attention to detail payed off there, huh.

Right now we have two sounds that I want to eliminate, both are preventable... One is a buzzing.  It is just a lose aluminum piece on the television antenna mounted below the turbine that vibrates at one frequency.  It's pretty low decibel, but I can pick it out.  The second is a hinge squeak that has just started when the tail returns from a fully furled position.  The oil-lite bearings I find occasionally need a hit of dry-lube graphite spray.

My ham antennas use elements made of 3/16" aluminum rod held on with stainless steel push on keepers. You can NEVER get them tight enough because the button insulator shrink when cold. Now picture 44 elements sitting up there vibrating, and making a racket! That is for the 2 meter band antennas...

This pic is one of the 35 element 23cm band antennas being constructed. I will have 4 of them... 136 elements(driven element doesn't count, it is a solid loop) to rattle away in winter. On the tower right next to the wall my desk is near, on a tower with 2 very substantial braces going into said wall to transmit noise to the house... Same style construction for all my antennas except 6 meters.

I try to keep towers as quiet as I can but some things are out of your control!  Like wind setting up a harmonic whistle as it passes thru the tower legs...