Author Topic: From wood, to independance.  (Read 5441 times)

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nothing to lose

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From wood, to independance.
« on: November 27, 2004, 08:02:38 AM »
This first post is not the bigger more fancy setup I am working on, it is simply about a 20 minute quicky I built yesterday to prove to someone it works.





This is very basic. Take a 55gal drum with removable lid. Remove any plastic caps or plugs in the lid, they will melt. Fill holes by threading in a pipe cap of the correct size or simply weld metal over the holes air tight. For this one I just happend to have the correct sized plug handy for the small hole, the large hole I had a metal cap from a different type of barrel. Remove the rubber gasket in the rim of the barrels lid, it will melt and leak. For this one I left it in just to see, it did melt and I had some small leaks burning around the edges. Replace the gasket with gasket material for wood burning stove doors. That works well, also I will test it, but I think a high tempature gasket silicone would work but not sure yet.


I made the frame from sections of a couple metal floor lamps. I have alot of those junk 300/500 watt halogen floor lamps, can't give them away. That was the posts for the frame. Each section was the corrct lenght, I simply used 4 as legs standing up right, 2 go side to side under the barrel, the other two go front to back along side the barrel. Just a cheap simple self standing four legged frame which I can sit the barrel into, it worked fine.


Lay barrel on side in frame, cut about a 2" hole in top, weld on 2" pipe. I had a junk section of exhaust pipe from some  vehicle handy, I used that.





I have a small pit here, I am building a fancy model of this and it will be in the pit. You don't have to have a pit. You do need to hold the heat to the barrel though. In the above picture I have filled the barrel with junk wood from dead trees that have fallen over around here. It has been raining alot so everything is wet, notice the water on top of the barrels in the first picture. Well this worked anyway!

 Would have been better with normal dry woods though, but wet worked fine.

 For my enclosure to hold heat to the barrel I used 3 sheets of metal siding/roofing.

The one is bent in a U shape making the sides and back. The wind blew it acrossed the roof and bent one side for me the other day when it hit my fireplace chiminey so I only had to bend the other side, wasn't that nice. I just had my daughter stand on it and I lifted the end and we bent it. The 2 pieces on top are just laid there of course, supported by the sides of the pit.

 We filled under the barrel with dead wet wood, around the sides also, then lit it.

 After awhile we had a hot fire burning and wood gas coming out the top.





Gee kinda looks like the gas pipe at an oil well doesn't it :)


Ok, here I did not do much except make a little charcoal and burn off the gas. The only real reason I did this yesterday was I got tired of a skeptic telling me it doesn't work and how hard it is to build such things that do work ect... Now they will be quit, at least about this one.


 In summery, you simply need a 4 legged stand to lay a barrel over sideways and a 2" pipe welded to the top (with hole cut in barrel to let out the gas). Fill barrel loosely with wood (not tight, heat needs to move around the wood and gas needs room to escape). Replace any plastic or rubber on barrel that will melt with something that does not melt, it needs to be air tight. Make a 3 sided and roofed enclosure to hold heat in. About anything that won't melt or blow away in the wind will do. Stack up some wood and get a hot fire going. First you get steam and smoke that won't burn, then in awhile you start getting the burning gas. How long that takes depends how wet your wood was and how hot your fire is ect..

 Lite gas and watch it burn. Keep fire hot with more wood as needed untill gas stops, charcoal is done. Let cool over night before opening the barrel.

 If you open the barrel while charcoal is too hot it will get oxygen and burn.


That's about it for a simple setup.


 If you don't want the gas, make the pipe bend over from the top of the barrel down the back side and run along bottom of barrel to the front. Cap end shut and drill/cut holes, basically making a burner like a gas oven. When the flamable gas comes out it will ignite and burn from the fire under the barrel. Be aware though this will become a self fueling fire and can really produce large amounts of heat and flames, not dangerous really, but it can get wild and should not be done near anything the heat or flames could damage or set on fire. If you do it this way, then as I say it will become self feuling, in other words the gas comes out of the wood, burns under the barrel keeping it hot to produce more gas, and it runs till the gas stops, and that's when the charcaol is done. Word of caution, you never want to build up a high presure, if you use the self feuling proccess then be sure to make LOTS of holes! The dryer your wood, hotter the fire, and type of wood, will result in lots of gas and high heats which create lots more gas! I have had thin oak strips (1/4 thick X 4-6" wide) I could snap like toothpicks that burnt like they had been soaked in gasolene in my wood burner. That wood will make tons of gas, the hotter it is the faster it makes it. Something like that expect to end up with flames shooting out 3' in every direction if self feuling. Perfectly safe as long as no presure is created!


Now for fun!

 Instead of burning off the gas for no reason, filter it, capture it, store it. That gas is useable for about everything you can use propane for including running an engine. My fancy setup will be storing the gas for other uses.


The heat, you are producing lots of heat here. Capture the heat for other uses also. Heat water for your hot water tank, winter heating for your house, anything else you want it for, maybe dry more wood for the next batch or heat a green house.

 I will be doing that and more. Tomatoes are about $3 lb here, Hell with that, greenhouse time! I'll heat barrels of water and those will prevetn the green house from getting to cold at night. Also I will be building a small kiln to dry fresh lumber for a house, use this charcoal production heat to keep that hot also.

The heat from the fire to make charcoal is as good as the heat in your would burner or fireplace. Just don't use the fumes. The gas coming from the barrel of wood needs to be cooled and filterd anyway before storage, so pipe it through a heat exchanger and reclaim that heat also.


Charcoal itself serves many purposes, some that can be provided by plain wood and some that cannot be. Use it for cooking outdoors, this is the best you can get, far better than store bought brikets!! I'll use it for melting Aluminum and other metals in my small casting foundry I am also building. It's perfect for the forge for back smithing too. For both build the proper container, load charcoal, pump air, and you have the heat needed for the job.

 As a filter charcoal is one of the best things you can use. After I get several batches made I will be using charcoal to filter the wood gas itself. First cool it to condense steam, then filter through charcoal before storing.

 Filter water also. And I will be using a water tank as gas filtering, letting it bubble through water to cool and wash the gas. As the water gets dirty, simply filter through charcoal to clean and reuse. When the charcoal finally should be replaced, let dry in sun then burn for heat in the next batch, nothing is waisted. And the unwanted tars and resins are captured back into the charcoal filter and burned.


Charcoal can be sold, if you make more than you need yourself, like to get the gas and use the heat, sell the extra! People by that glued together dust and ground pieces type brickets every day, this is far better!


Use good woods for the charcoal, but you can use wood that will otherwise be wasted. I'll get most of mine from a lumber mill super cheap, it's scrap they burn off or just pile up and let rot away. Some haul it off to a charcoal plant to be made into brickets, but still it's cheap to buy it from them. I used that because the bark is removed, good for smithing or founderies. Cooking I wouldn't care.

 For the fire, any garbage rotting tree pieces work well. I have acres of dead trees pieces. Many rot while growing and just fall over, break off half way up, or the limbs are falling off. Any of that wood is fine for the fire and dry it burns hot!

 Free scrap for the asking often also, just looks around. Loggers want logs, limbs are just left behind to rot. Sometimes it's cut for firewood, most the time it's not.


 Trees are RE.

 Replanting of trees is not difficult or feul consuming or expensive. It just takes time for them to grow. The Texas paper mills do it all the time! Cut the trees to make paper, then hire planters. They just walk along getting fresh air hitting the ground with a pick, sticking in a tree (looks like a stick), stepping down to mash back the dirt and taking a step or two and doing it again. What they are planting is a pine that grows to size in about 10 years. But it can be done with any trees.


Well I had a 2 day break in the rain, Thanksgiving day was nice, but I was busy and couldn't do anything, yesterday I built this quickey and used it plus a little other stuff, today it is storming again so no work of this type for awhile I geuss.

 Soon I will have an open building over that pit and be working on the real system in any type of weather, for now it's just a good day system.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2004, 08:02:38 AM by (unknown) »

TomW

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2004, 09:41:59 AM »
NTL;


When I make charcoal for melting aluminum I use the volatile gasses to drive the process of heating the retort [container of wood] I find it will pretty much fuel itself after it gets going. The gasses coming off the wood are very flammable so it seemed smart to burn it to finish the charcoal process.


I use paint cans with holes in the bottom that lets the gas out where it does the most good. It has been very effective for me and I have considered running the gas into a motor for power but I am not very good with engines and building things of metal such as the scrubbers and filters needed to burn woodgas properly long term in an ICE.


We have an extensive woodlot, heat with wood and I never have to kill a live tree for fuel and just use logging waste from the necessary harvesting that keeps the timber healthy and deadfalls / etc to keep the wood shed full. I always say that wood heat is my main RE.


Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: November 27, 2004, 09:41:59 AM by TomW »

Chagrin

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2004, 11:10:29 AM »
Regular silicone caulk is 400 degrees F capable. 500F is about $6/tube, and 600F is about $15. Wood burns right around 615F.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2004, 11:10:29 AM by Chagrin »

nothing to lose

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2004, 12:55:45 PM »
Sounds about same as me then to apoint. I have more dead wood than I need, and I don't burn it in the house because it's too bugy.


I mentioned there about self feuling the fire, IF you don't want the gas, glad to see the second on that, many people argue with me it don't work, but WE know it does don't we :)


I bet you've had those 3 foot flames I mentioned were posible from all directions when doing that. Or do you control it someway?


Myself I am building a simple system basically for making the charcoal and using the by products. I will be bubbling the gas through water for cooling and removes much of the tars/resins. Basically just connect the pipe to a couple others. I think I will just run it to the top of another drum, then a pipe from the bottom of that drum to the top of one with water and down to the bottom inside it. That gives me one whole 55gal barral of air in between the charcoal and water, so if there is any draw back (suction) as the charcoal barrel cools Water would be drawn into the middle barrel not the charcoal barrel.


Then just another pipe barrel setup like that full of charcoal for a final filter.


If running an engine off it right then simply a matter of piping it into the air cleaner and setting the engines throttle for the proper air mix to use the gas as it's produced. That's  how I ran a riding mower on propane before myself, just piped it into the air cleaner. Same thing, though the volume may change.


As for buying wood, for me it costs about $10-$15 for a full 8'X16' trailer of oak scraps from a mill plus gas to go get it. Nice small blocks of various sizes ready to use. 6"x4-6"X less than 12"long. Almost cheaper than cutting it myself, and a whole lot faster and easier too. I got another place that will give me 8'-10' slabs free for the taking. Big heavy, lots of cutting, lots of bark, but i use alot of it too. Will make great feul for the fire, blocks for the charcoal though.


My fancier model will be enclosed like an oven, concrete walls or at least concrete blocks, insulated well, and be one fire and several barrels at once.


Like I said, this one was a quicky basic :)


 

« Last Edit: November 27, 2004, 12:55:45 PM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2004, 01:00:53 PM »
I am thinking I have seen high temp silicone gasket putty in the range close to 1,000F but I forget exactly where. I think it was like a copper silicone mix perhaps.

Maybe for headers on the hot rods and race engines, more expensive than regular

form-a-gasket stuff but not too over priced.


I could be wrong through.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2004, 01:00:53 PM by nothing to lose »

Old F

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2004, 01:57:50 PM »
Here is a source for furnace cement and ceramic blanket insulation that I have used.

Keep us posted  And have fun.


http://budgetcastingsupply.com


Old F

« Last Edit: November 27, 2004, 01:57:50 PM by Old F »
Having so much fun it should be illegal

nothing to lose

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2004, 03:40:23 PM »
Thanks for the link I checked it and found a few things I may be needing before long.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2004, 03:40:23 PM by nothing to lose »

Roamer195

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2004, 09:45:37 PM »
Nice Rig!


If you want to get the most out of the wood all in one shot, here's a link on how to make a "downdraft gasifier". It can work with almost any type of biomass as long as you build the "reactor" to suit the fuel you plan to use.


This method consumes the gas AND the charcoal, leaving nothing but very fine ash.


http://solstice.crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Reed/T1.htm


And here's a very small gasifier for cooking that can be made with a couple of coffee cans.


http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/WoodGasStove/

« Last Edit: November 27, 2004, 09:45:37 PM by Roamer195 »

Roamer195

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2004, 11:59:54 PM »
And here's another homemade biomass gasifier.


http://www.ftlcomm.com/ensign/wallace/gasifier/gasifier.html

« Last Edit: November 27, 2004, 11:59:54 PM by Roamer195 »

drdongle

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2004, 08:09:05 AM »
Has any one got a good resource for home alcohol production?, a local moon shiner

( retired) want to get into making motor fuel.


Carpe Vigor


Dr.D

« Last Edit: November 28, 2004, 08:09:05 AM by drdongle »

nothing to lose

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2004, 06:10:06 AM »
Thanks for the links, I will look at those.


The gasifiers are on the list of things I will be doing also.

Heat is produced by a gasifier, I can use that heat to dry out some of my wood before making it into charcoal (or use it for other things too. Starting with already dried woods means I will need less feul to make the charcoal, compared to moist woods.


I think in the picture of the barrels part of a gasifier I started on is in the background. Not sure if it showed up? I would have been a down draft. I had welding problems using a torch on it, then I bought a cheapy wire welder but haven't got the rest done yet.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2004, 06:10:06 AM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2004, 06:12:20 AM »
I would like to have a jug or two of fuel, for medicinal purposes of course :)


I don't have the receipe for motor fuel, but I would like to have yours :)

« Last Edit: November 29, 2004, 06:12:20 AM by nothing to lose »

skravlinge

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2004, 12:45:03 PM »
Shipping is  not an option! I will tell you how I do my (body)fuel.

(This may not be legal by you, it is here, but I can just make for personal use).


12 liters of applejuice, 6 kg sugar, Yeast fermenter, Yeast of the "Turbo"-kind.

It goes up to 20% alcohol. Let it clear. Its nice in this way, but if you go for stronger, just put it in  a  bottle without closing it, frigde it the colder the better.

But the bottle upside down and let 1/3 to 1/2 melt (taste and stop then you think its too weak). Its better than destilling as all the good flavours comes with it.

It should easy be 80+ proof.

Some here can maybe make up a way to run  a motor using it.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2004, 12:45:03 PM by skravlinge »

skravlinge

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2004, 12:46:07 PM »
Forgott to say in 30 litres, add water.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2004, 12:46:07 PM by skravlinge »

nothing to lose

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2004, 01:07:26 PM »
30 liters of water.


If that's close to 80 proof, I wonder if I boiled off the alcohaul using the heat from the charcoal maker and condensed it to a can if I could run an engine on it :)


I was thinking of trying that with corn later as part of the system too.


Been rained out alot again for wahile and then this week was really nice but I had to catch up on other projects. Will have more to post on the charcoal system but may be awhile with the holiday comming up now too.


Kinda like spring time around here, very little need for heat. Couple sticks of wood at night and that's about it.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2004, 01:07:26 PM by nothing to lose »

ghurd

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2004, 11:45:57 PM »
""I was thinking of trying that with corn later as part of the system too.""

""I would like to have a jug or two of fuel, for medicinal purposes of course :)""


Don't drink the stuff from corn. It can kill you without proper treatment, involving, of all things, charcoal.


The 'Foxfire' books cover about everything related to this, except how to use it in a motor.  Vol I (?).


G-

« Last Edit: December 12, 2004, 11:45:57 PM by ghurd »
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elvin1949

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2004, 11:18:05 PM »
are you nut's

corn is the best,been drinking it for 50 yr's.

ain't dead yet.

Corn is what Jack Daniel's is made from.

oh well i could go on for a week but i want.

later

elvin
« Last Edit: December 16, 2004, 11:18:05 PM by elvin1949 »

ghurd

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2004, 09:44:59 AM »
I agree. But they filter it through charcoal somehow to get the poison stuff out.

I think the adds even mention it, or at least used to.

G-
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 09:44:59 AM by ghurd »
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weldingrodd

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2004, 04:06:03 PM »
White Lightnin! Made while the MoonShines Bright!!Good for what ailes you. Sometimes known as "Papa's recipe" Good for all medicinal purposes to .And just for plain old relaxation and enjoyment. "Wet your whistle,sit a spell,enjoy yourself now ya hear"
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 04:06:03 PM by weldingrodd »

nothing to lose

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2005, 09:34:40 PM »
Found a gasket silicone at Harbor Frieght for $2 a tube. Size tube normally used for auto gaskets, don't know if it's any good yet.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2005, 09:34:40 PM by nothing to lose »

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2005, 10:02:18 PM »
I got side tracked and did not keep up with this as planned so far, though still working on the system.

I am ordering a lathe/milling machine this week. When it arrives I will be working on this and alot of other projects I have started but not yet finished.

 One of the problems is I often can't find some of the things I want for parts. Often I find them but they cost more than I want to pay, around here.


So when I get my new machine I will be making tons of things I want/need instead of trying to buy them.


On a small scale I have made a filter filled with charcoal I made earlier and used that to filter the woodgas, then ran a small engine for awhile. Worked nicely. I should have cooled the gas better than I did to condense the moisture first in one container then filter the  cooler dryer gas in a second with the charcoal and that would have been even better.


 I am looking for the best/cheapest way to remove the heat from the gas and use it for something else like maybe heating a storage area full of wood to dry it before turning it into charcoal. The dryer the wood the less feul needed to turn it into charcoal and drive out the useable gas for an engine, and of course the less moisture I will have to remove from the gas also, though there will always be some.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2005, 10:02:18 PM by nothing to lose »

ignesandros

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Re: From wood, to independance.
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2005, 09:36:03 AM »
You know, if you burried most of the rig except a pocket underneath for the starter fire, air supply, and one end to remove charcoal and add wood, you could rig the self-fueling design and burry metal pipes in the ground to heat water off the waste heat. Not only that, but you'd get a system that'd stay well above ambient long after the last batch was fired, improving the efficiency of subsequent burns. This idea might be better on the side of a ravine or hill if you don't relish digging, though.


How long will the steel barrel last in a configuration like this? Does the fire deteriorate the metal?


-Andrew

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 09:36:03 AM by ignesandros »