Author Topic: Third Turbine work (Read 5000 times)

theTinker · « **on:** February 01, 2006, 06:49:10 PM »

im gonna keep a log of all my stuff related to my third turbine, maybe it might record sum common mistakes that can be learnt from.

im still designing at the moment. its gonna have 6' blade diameter(all thats allowed in my urban area and it has to be non reflective white )

its going to be three phase and im aiming for 12 volt. its goal is to be able to charge a battery. my first alternator was tiny and useless, my second one managed to light sum leds but it was built with no measurements .

firstly here is a excel attachment of the measurements i plan on using for my alternator. its just spacing and size of coils/magnets/rotor. if any one of experience could run thier eyes over it, it would be very helpful, i made the formulas up myself so im hoping they are about right, the rotor is a disc brake(the machine with be a single rotor with laminates. aiming for low winds only. no high winds here.(lots of amps isnt important, i dont have anything to use atm, so aslong as it hits cut in and can recharge a battery in a couple of days i would be very very happy)

alternator spacing measurments

Ray

willib · « **Reply #1 on:** February 01, 2006, 06:26:48 PM »

I havnt got excell on this pc , maybe a .jpg or .gif , of the output?

theTinker · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2006, 07:56:45 AM »

as always thanks for ur help willib.

if there is any other information which i can give, please just ask

any suggestions would make me very grateful.

willib · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2006, 11:02:15 AM »

all outer dia. are equal.. 12"

i'm not suggesting that you use round coils , it is just a way for me to check the dimentions..

the smaller circles are 2'dia. ( twice the width of magnets)

the 9 coil setup shows that there is way too much room on a 12" rotor disk.

the 15 coil shows there not enough room on a 12" disk to hold 15 coils..(20 poles)

the 12 coil seems ok..thats 16 poles 32 magnets..

hope you have that many :-) ?

you should REALLY DL this program .. its free !!

i could help ya get started with it..

http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/2965/tinker.GIF

theTinker · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2006, 03:50:27 PM »

i would really like to make sumthing like that, paint is great for everything except measurements

i was thinking coils of 2.76 inches wide and that covers a leg over each pole and gives just about 100% of the space for copper.

there is just over 1 inch width between each magnet at the inner circumfrance so this fits the 1 inch core here and leaves just the legs over the poles (in theory heh), i would like to model this on ur program so let me know the name and i would be grateful. that would let me see if my thinking in correct.

Ray

willib · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2006, 04:05:12 PM »

http://www.emachineshop.com/

on the leftside click FREE DOWNLOAD..

like i said i will be more than happy to help ya get started with it..

willib · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2006, 04:24:25 PM »

can yo go with 16 poles ? is that a do-able option?

i would recommend it .

the distance between the inside corners will be 0.460 " which is fine in my opinion..

http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/2965/0tinker.GIF

theTinker · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2006, 05:09:30 PM »

ill have to have a think about it,ill get back to it tomoro(exhasted atm) , haven purchased the magnets yet , building my set up first

that program is brilliant willib, only took a little while to use and produced these results brilliantly no more set sqaures and pencils for me

thanks so much for the recommendation. the options are so made for this

theTinker · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2006, 05:10:41 PM »

i must say that does make it more clear than my excel spread sheets lol

willib · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2006, 05:27:51 PM »

good for you !!

it is a fantastic program...

i didnt know you could do fill in objects ,taken from another program, with paint.

theTinker · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2006, 07:00:22 AM »

if i make it 16 magnets and 12 coils, i get the spacing to be 0.57 "

(25.13(inner circumfrance) minus 16(1 inch per magnet) )/16(number of spaces)= 0.57 inches?

i would be using a coil leg of 0.53 with 12 coils instead of 9.

do u think the 4 extra poles would give more power then having that 0.88 inch legs as up above? i suppose the voltage would be about 1/4 higher aswell which is a large boost with such a small machine, and been single rotor that would be most welcome

(im going to model it on the program lol. cheers)

theTinker · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2006, 08:27:21 AM »

heres the model.

if u think a good idea is that the coil leg should be equal to half the magnet width then this does look much better. if ya think this is ok then i will go for this one, the measurments do look good.

coil leg = 0.53 inches

click me

12 inch, 16 pole, 12 coil, 3 phase model

theTinker · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2006, 06:57:16 PM »

my next design issue is about bearings and support.

Im building the frame out of wood as I have a ready supply and the tools.

in DanBs woodenAXL gen, he used 2 pillow blocks to support the shaft and the rotor was welded to the shaft which when turn obviously spun the shaft in the pillow block bearings too.

I see another way of doing this would be to support the shaft securely on the frame, and attach in the rotor "hole" a radial ball bearing which then is put on the shaft, so really its a question of whether the shaft and rotor should turn or just the rotor.

I figure the second one just has the friction on one bearing? while dans had the friction of 2, im aiming for low winds so im trying to reduce energy lost. but is there any advantage of using the 2 pillow blocks bearings? does it lessen the load put on each bearing so they should last twice as long maybe?

Ray

willib · « **Reply #13 on:** February 05, 2006, 09:29:09 PM »

http://www.otherpower.com/images/pmg17.jpg

If you can use a tapered roller bearing , that is an option for sure.I'm not sure how strong that would be ,because with wood as the frame , the tapered bearing needs tension , and the wood may not be able to supply that tension for very long

It is commonly done with a hub and spindle assembly maybe you could scrounge one up somewhere ?

an old trailer ?

an old front wheel drive car?

it would make thing so much easier.

If you are going to use wood for a frame i would use the double pillow block ,because of the forces involved .which means your shaft and rotor will be spinning. You are going to need a flange of some sort to attach the rotor to the shaft.

i wouldnt worry about the friction of another ball bearing on there

theTinker · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2006, 02:26:41 PM »

i looked into the spindle and bearings from the wheels of a trailer, but i found that the spindles are very little sticking out the back, and on a wooden frame i would need quite a bit to support it.

heres my idea below, its very much like one of dans.

heres a emachine file of it.

click me

it seem fair enough?

theTinker · « **Reply #15 on:** February 06, 2006, 02:49:39 PM »

ive just ordered my bearings from http://stores.ebay.ie/BEARING-BARGAINS

he has sum great deals comparing to what else i can find. i live in ireland so postage and shippinh nearly put the cost up by 100% but anyone in the US should like it.

i ordered 2 pillow blocks. 4 shaft collars. and 2 radial ball bearings(just incase)

all 1 " shaft diameter

20$ total price + 18$ for shipping

i will start cutting out my wood pieces this weekend. and post pics as they go along.

cheers for ur helps so far willib

willib · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2006, 05:40:13 PM »

Nice job !!! you are very good at this program <

, that drawing is really something..

i downloaded the file , emachineshop poped up , with the file loaded , it worked great..

willib · « **Reply #17 on:** February 06, 2006, 05:58:49 PM »

two of those shaft collers could be welded to JUST "ONE" rotor , not to the shaft , because you may want to take it apart in the future,and let the other rotor float on the shaft being held in place by the shaft .

if you know someone who has a welder?

and then just attach your prop to the outer rotor , centering it on the shaft..

willib · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2006, 06:24:51 PM »

Forget the welding , i see what you are doing now..

theTinker · « **Reply #19 on:** February 07, 2006, 11:35:29 AM »

excellent, i was unsure about it

its a fantastic program, makes things much clearer for me

willib · « **Reply #20 on:** February 07, 2006, 11:55:23 PM »

check this out ..

in emachine shop , upper left click edit ,preferences , set your rotation snap angle to 1.00 degrees .

click on the magnets twice ( to initiate rotation)

then press right or left arrow key..

and see what happens..

look in my files for movie .ems..

or click here for the eMachine shop file..

http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/2965/movie.ems

this shows what is going on in a three phase machine, for two phases , you could allways add another coil ..

enjoy <;-)

theTinker · « **Reply #21 on:** February 08, 2006, 02:51:38 PM »

ye i do that with my ones too, it gives a good feeling to see things perfectly lined up

lol, and i can give a rpm of about 700 a min

willib · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2006, 12:45:28 AM »

did you get the parts yet?

theTinker · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2006, 04:16:18 PM »

not yet, it was by surface mail so i knew it would be a while, im looking forward to it still though, i think i have most things planned and measured, i was able to improve my last $#|+ty alternator, now it lights up 3 red leds instead of one, fancy i know

willib · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2006, 04:23:05 PM »

How did you improve it?

theTinker · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2006, 03:12:28 PM »

lol, just recutting parts to make sure its not wobbly, adding better laminates, lowering airgap, nothing new im afraid

ill post sum pics as soon as my gear comes

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Author Topic: Third Turbine work (Read 5000 times)