Author Topic: Low speed hydro  (Read 9706 times)

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12AX7

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Low speed hydro
« on: March 02, 2006, 06:07:44 AM »
How slow?   TBD

How much torque?   TBD

Dang,  pretty much means I'm not prepared for this!


I'm guessing the ice at the "sweet spot"  might be only 1/8 thick..and I"m not about to go ice diving.  but come spring and ice out..  Thing are going to start happening here.


A paddle wheel 14ft (maybe a bit more) in a strong current (strong ripples on the surface) might be several MPH.  M ph  not RPMs!

I'd like to avoid using any sort of gear up system.  

Played with 1/2 to 1 hp PM dc motors.  Not overly impressed.   AC servo motors look promising  Played with a few but I'd need a MONSTER, at the speeds I'm shooting for.


I've collected a pile of stuff (junk to many).  Currently have my eyes on a 40 hp leeson.  I'm thinking more mass is needed for output at lower speeds.  The run from the site to the house can't be more than 40 ft.  None of that is VERTICAL! (I'm guessing the floor of my basement is about level with the river bottom).

(dang!   I coulda used the nick..   SUMPMAN )


THeres a good chance that IF I were to get the 40 hp I'd not beable to use the lathe to turn it down.   Thinking I could set it on the mills table and cut slots or use an endmill and use round mag's.   Getting the thing back into the stator..  will be a trick.


And there's that "copper" thing!    not time for that yet!

Cept the Frequency thing.  I'm thinking freq maybe a "factor"  Just THINKING and not sure of doo due.


The Paddle wheel will take up most of my time, and the gen will be a nasty distraction.  (hell, the crane I'll need to build will be another!)


So the big question is..   just HOW slow can a motor (at home) conversion go and still do a KW or three?

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 06:07:44 AM by (unknown) »

oztules

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2006, 03:54:18 AM »
Well mr thermionic man,


I can't help but feel that your gonna give yourself a whole lotta pain if you dont gear it up. At least use a chain and a few teeth if you don't want gears. The torque is what you will have in abundance at 14 feet amd a few mph. Think of the water as air, nearly 900 times as dense. 2-3  mph of water is serious if you are talking 14 feet by a few feet wide. The rpm will be abysmal at these figures( probably about 2rpm @ 3mph).  Gear it up to a zubbly conversion and set and forget, but you will have to gear it up....lots.


Maybe enough power to run some 6AQ5's on the output of your AX7 front end...if you use a bigger wheel maybe get into some 807's in pushpull... regular disco


You notice how far 4 watts used to go (6AQ5) in the output back in the 70's  A mono 6aq5 in a class could drive you outta the room now ..???


............oztules

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 03:54:18 AM by oztules »
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wildbill hickup

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2006, 05:56:02 AM »
Watt's the rated volts, amps, RPM of the leeson your concidering. Yow should be able to calculate a useable speed, but I agree with oz your not going to get much with even 10 or 20 RPM nevermind 3,4 or 5. Even if you got some useable voltage I would think it would be a mass of spikes, my small conversion at less than say 50 RPM varies so much you can't even read a constant voltage (open) with a digital meter, it jumps all over the place. But with that kind of torque you could really produce some power with the right reductiuon.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 05:56:02 AM by wildbill hickup »

jlt

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2006, 06:18:04 AM »
i have been playing with a hydro progect but going about it in a difrent way . a multy blade turbine that is hooked to alt, by a  flex hose that will handle the tork.

I will be building i barge to hold the alt  in the stream above the rapids.  i held this in my hand last summer and was getting 200rpm.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 06:18:04 AM by jlt »

roddy

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2006, 06:28:44 AM »
this might be a good alternative to the floating type paddlewheel that a couple of us have talked about. could you expand on the turbine to alternator connection a little? looks like something totally outside the box, that is cool.


roddy

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 06:28:44 AM by roddy »

Gary D

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2006, 07:13:36 AM »
Just a thought to contiplate. If you start with a prototype unit about 5 to 6 feet diameter height (whatever width you desire), you could get an idea of rpm's unloaded. No need to go with a 14 foot ferris wheel. (Less chance for a chinese water torture from the spouse). I don't think you will get any more power out (only using a few inches on the bottom anyway). You'll only drop your rpm's going higher. You could use 6 or 8 inch schedule 80 pvc cut in half lengthwise to resemble your 55 barrel thoughts (schedule 40 might be too flexable but might work). It would require less magnets, or try various dc motors to check best preformance... As to a raised line, drop cords are retractible (used in most garages). Use it, lose it, but have fun playing! Gary D.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 07:13:36 AM by Gary D »

jlt

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2006, 08:29:03 AM »
the turbine is hooked directly to the alt by a hyd. hose .it will take quite a lot of tork.tryed a rope first. but it twisted to much.this is just a model of what you  could build if you had plenty of flow and depth.somthing 3ft diameter. and say 50 ft long would make a lot of power. and 24 hrs a day. even 200 watts. would be as much as a very large wind turbine .out put would be. i have a 7 1/2 ft and it only puts out 60 watts x 24 hrs. per day. i will post some more info when the weather warms up and i get it in the stream.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 08:29:03 AM by jlt »

coldspot

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2006, 08:39:38 AM »
"AC servo motors look promising"

"Played with a few but I'd need a MONSTER"

Look at my Diary for "CMI"
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 08:39:38 AM by coldspot »
$0.02

ghurd

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2006, 08:48:28 AM »
Is the body of that submerged or floating?  Looks like it floats.  Might make more power if all the blades were under water?

G-
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 08:48:28 AM by ghurd »
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12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2006, 09:23:38 AM »
Hello Oztules..


Yes, I am sure your correct.   With out some sort of gearing up system, The can of worms may be bottomless.   But    and it's a really big "butt".

If I shoot for an "ULTRA SLOW SPEED" gen..  I can always add something (plenty of 1-10 and 1 -20 gear boxes around).  Heck   I've got a nice dual vee belt pully 30 inches and a couple of mates  4 - 10 inches.  The 30in..  weighs in at 75.5 lbs!


Like I said "I'd like to avoid".    didn't say never!


A 6aq5 could drive one out of a room with ease.   (cause at that level it be sounding like poo poo).  I'm going to take a guess (based on been there and done it) that you were thinking of the 6BQ5.


Now there is a sweet sounding tube!  Not enough SLAM for my tired abused and old ears.  Many stereos made back in the late 50s and 60s (The FIsher  Scott Sherwood Grief Kits [I never had problems with Heathkit] Eico Dynaco) to name a few used the 6bq5s in Push-Pull.  By the 70's most stereos were Solidstate.  Harmonic Distortion went from 1(ish)% down to .01thd (the music sounded like crap).  


I'm not sure about driving an 807 with a ax7.   I suppose it would work,  but there are better choices out there.  


And now lets back this truck up a bit!   How can you use the words "Thermionic" and "DISCO"  with in the same post!!!!   L  The most dealing I had with discos was reparing the power amps.   They sure burnt up plenty of Phase Linear 400 and 700bs.

(If only I had one neo for every output transistor I preplaced!) ah just the thought brings back memories of Flaming Linears..


If there is/are anyone out there with tube stuff...   SHARE!


"HOW FAR 4 WATTS" could go.     (I sure do jump around, don't I?)  

IT's not how big it is, it's how you use it.  

Thats the Frequency thing (remember the waterwheel/genny?)  But it does tie into another entry I'll have to work on!


Dust off your tubes, and make sure your heaters are running DC!

Thanks for your reply!

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 09:23:38 AM by 12AX7 »

12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2006, 09:41:24 AM »


Hello JLT


I have played with the same thing!  and When the river has that rock hard surfaced the wheel will be out of the water....  but under that ice the water is still flowing..  

Depth would be a funtion of how high the river was when it freezes.  Times it might be about 18 inches or so.   Other times could be a foot or two more.


not sure about the flex drive shaft and ice out.  Ice out can be real slow and pain free.  but then there's "Glacier" snydrome....  and oooooh that can be scary!


So maybe the gen also needs to be under water.   The power cables can sneek up the river bank.    BUt HOW TO MAKE it water tight?   HA!  lets make it to run wet?


Your turbin,  will you need to anchor the tail end?  and How about it's nose?  With my depth so shallow theres no room for "error".   Playing with the flex shaft (mine was a heavy 2in poly hose)   I found that changing the load caused the long shaft to want to "sprial"  


A project not given up on...  just a bit back on one of the burners!

If you haven't already..    Google "VERDANT POWER"  and "GORLOV HELICAL TURBIN"


the "lawnmower" reel looks very interesting!


Please pass on EVERYTHING/ANYTHING you learn!

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 09:41:24 AM by 12AX7 »

12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2006, 09:45:40 AM »
Hello RODDY!


Theres plenty out there that's out side the box!   (some of us have looked back and pointed out that it's not always a box..  just can't tell it from the inside!)


LIke I just posted to JLT    Google the same two items.  


Start building it...  and work out the details later!   L

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 09:45:40 AM by 12AX7 »

12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2006, 10:06:41 AM »


Hello WIldbill


I am unable to get that info off of the motor,  it's currently (still on it's org shipping skid) coverd with junk, and behind a couple of tons of misc. stuff.

The chances I'll get it are very slim.  (but there is always a chance!)


No,  I'm not expecting to get a lot at 7-20 rpm.   But thats not saying I agree with the idea these speeds can't generate real power.


Theres a company out there     claims 600 KW 1.2 MW and 2.something MW at rpms around 20.


Wildbill, the digital meters are WONDERFULL.   but they do have their issues.

Just because your meter fails to "lock" onto a reading doesn't mean the actual votage or current is doing the same.  Get an old analog meter (it won't be much more accurate) but it will give you an "idea"  of whats really going on.

a Scope would be better.

"massive spikes"   There are lots of POwer circuits out there that work on just that!

There's POWER in them spikes..   and if it's spikes you have,  run with them!

In your case,  I don't think there are massive spikes, just your meter unable to pick a "range".  


I'd guess your gen's output at 50 rpm (a steady 50) would be just as steady as it's out put at most any other (constant) speed.   load it with a lamp and see?


The many overlooked/understood things of DVMS..   could take pages to discuss!

and I've got a lot to learn!

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 10:06:41 AM by 12AX7 »

12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2006, 10:18:29 AM »
Hello Gary


I've given that plenty of thought myself.   A decent prototype could take as long to build as the final wheel.  And the FINAL wheel will be made from the items I can hack together with little $$.    


If after lots and lots of work I end up with a paddle wheel that "just turns"  I'll still have something to look at.

I don't think I've heard the term "WHIRRLYGIG" for a long time.  (not too sure that's the way it's spelt!)

Something that spins in the wind (not like a windgenerator) in that it does nothing but spin (little men fishing.. rowing a boat..).   (unless your blades are spinning free)

Kinda like a paddlewheel in a pond, located in someones garden.  

What does it do?   nothing!  but it's fun to watch!  

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 10:18:29 AM by 12AX7 »

12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2006, 10:19:19 AM »
Hello coldspot


I'll have to do that,   but right now I'm out of time!

thanks!

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 10:19:19 AM by 12AX7 »

whatsnext

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2006, 11:36:59 AM »
I hate to throw water on your low speed hydro project but if you have low speeds you have no power. Water is much smarter than it looks. The only way to extract kinetic energy from moving water is to slow it down. When you do this it will forma dam and the water will just flow around your wheel. This is why all water wheels have some sort of water diverter to force the water to develop head. Then you can extract the available potential energy which will actually work. This problem was solved by Archimedes(sp) and since it's been solved everyone who knows hydro always says "how much head have you got" first thing before answering any other questions.

John...
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 11:36:59 AM by whatsnext »

zubbly

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2006, 12:44:51 PM »
hi 12AX7 !


hydro is a very interesting subject.  i have no hydro experience at all.  i have thought about it a few times and understand all the ice issues and many of the other problems with gearing up and having a floating platform.


what i would like to try sometime is a completely submerged unit. i would like to try converting an actual deep well submersible water pump motor (the ones that look like torpedos. the units are available in single as well as 3 phase. the windings however are totally encased and all the stainless housing is factory welded. so i think the higher voltage units would have a good chance of hitting charge voltage at not to high of an rpm. the rotor part however is removable. the rotor could be converted to permanent magnet. most units are 2 pole, but i "think" could still work out to an efective unit.


now as i understand it, the tsr of air props is an indication of how many times faster the prop will turn in ratio to the air speed. tsr of 7 equals 7 times the air speed. i am not sure how to or understand the concept of using water in place of air in respect of size and reduction in diameter because of the greater power in water compared to air. multiple small props on a common shaft could be used. perhaps this would be a good application for pvc props. the shaft of the motor is splined, and the motor to pump coupling could easily be retrofitted with a shaft and multiple props.


you could simply have a pile or pipe driven into the river bottom with a spacer to keep it whatever distance you want it from the bottom. this way you would have no ice issues that i can think of.  your power cable would simply sneak up the river bank as you put it.


the other great thing about this that i can see is a possible "burn out proof" unit. the motor would stay very close to the ambient temp of the water.


lol, its just some crazy thought but it may actually work well.


thats my 2 cents worth.

have fun!

zubbly

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 12:44:51 PM by zubbly »

oztules

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2006, 02:09:30 PM »
hmmm, you may have a point with your run wet idea. The axial flux would be an ideal candidate to run under water. Just make the mag rotors fully epoxied to protect the mags and give it a flawless disk profile (no resistance to the water). Make the stator with the wire outs very very long with no turmination screws. Straight out of the epoxy and up the bank to the rectifiers. There should be no problems with this at all if you construct with soggy end in mind. Stainless steel bearings are available for the shaft or because torque is in abundance, proper bearing buddies and modified hub seals may get enough sealing to keep the grease in.


That still leaves you with rpm problem. Paddle wheel will provide torque at very low rpm. At 14', each turn will cover approx 44' of diameter. Each water mph will pass 5280/3600 feet past the mill each second. At 1 mph thats around 1.5 feet per second. I'll leave it to your imagination how many seconds pass before the 40 or so feet of the wheels perifery get pushed around at this rate...but it can't be pretty.


Perhaps looking at the screw option will give you something better in rpm terms, although in 18 inches of stream, your diam is very limited, and may not give you enough surface area at this water rate to do much power at a high "tsr"...dont know if thats the terminology for water screws.....looks like gearbox is hovering on the horizon.


6BQ5.... now thats going up market, i didn't see too many of those in this country (australia) They were considered very flash a good 6 watts in A class. I used them for some of my projects, but a lot of sterograms in this country even  6BL8's on the outputs in A class...about 2 watts i think, the classier ones were 6GV8 in the dual packet gear, but a lot were 6AQ5, cheap and nasty but tidy offspring of the 6V6. Over here 6BQ5 were at the top end of the A class power outs, after that it was AB1 or Bclass. Didn't see too many of these here, as the transistors arrived late sixties and moved the expensive heavy power outputs out of business, but the economic 6AQ5 lived on for a longer while before being shaken out of operation in the early seventies.


Disco, yes the only time I saw these was to fix amps, and to design lighting systems with the "musicolor" effects. A thousand watts a channel made my eyes pop the first time after being used to 3-4 watts. And then they had three of these per channel Bass,mid, treb. Thats 6000w per unit......me and my valves slunk off into the night and  I never used power tetrodes again. But the mighty old 12AX7... still using it now.


And luvin it......oztules

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 02:09:30 PM by oztules »
Flinders Island Australia

pepa

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2006, 02:24:14 PM »
my son lives on a sail boat and i built him a windmill to offset his solar panels. he told me that he has seen a lot of these sailboats towing a generator behind them. has anyone checked into the possibility of using one of these units as a hydro in flowing currents. its may work, or something like this. pepa
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 02:24:14 PM by pepa »

ghurd

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2006, 03:01:46 PM »
Those tow behind things are EXPENSIVE.  Over US$1000?  And the output is low, 60W comes to mind without research.

Something like an Air403 for the water?  Expensive and non productive?

Seems like a 'poorly designed' homebrew unit would make more power with a lot less money.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 03:01:46 PM by ghurd »
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Nando

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2006, 09:50:51 PM »
Big wheel low RPM driving a pump under pressure to direct the water with a pipe and Nozzle to a Turgo turbine may give you good power.


Nando

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 09:50:51 PM by Nando »

12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2006, 11:07:01 PM »
Hello (again) Coldspot


I've been toying with servo motors for some time now.  They are pretty neat.  

Plenty ugly when troubleshooting machine issues.   Ya can't always besure if your dealing with a motor problem...communication (motor to drive..  drive to plc) drive or the plc itself.  (and then there are those that can't keep their hands off of the programs)   course ya gotta dump on the pile that you might have a machanical problem.    With that said,  take a HAMMER to the encoder/reslover...  (beat the hell out of it)..

and then..  things get so much funner!

I'd like to pass on a interesting story.


Awhile back I was showing a friend just what a nice little servo could do.

it's nameplate and numbers had long since been worn/washed away. (where I work they use em hard)  But I'd guess it was about 1 nm.  output shaft about 5/8 in.   I'm guessing it's weight about 20lbs...   (more when your on your back...  lifting it up)


This motor was on the bench.     I bolted a right angle hand crank to the shaft.

With a 50 watt forklift lamp.   I held the motor down...   and my friend "cranked"

With a GOOD deal of effort (more for him)..   the light got pretty bright.


BUT THEN....    I grabbed a control power transformer.    one that is normally used to step 220vac or 440vac down to 120vac.

I wired the servo to the 120v side..   (using it as a step UP)   YA YA YA .. I know..  more volts less amps...  

but the point here is...  with the same hand crank... with the same guy cranking..   with very LITTLE effort...  we could light a 100w (130vac rough service) lamp..

plenty brite too!   grabbed the 18v Dewalt..  and FLASH BULB!  (might have taken the mid speed setting)


The point here..  it's again not how much you have... it's how you use it!

I wonder how many "CBers" are around that remember getting their SWR set on their antennas?  I know..  THATS another story!  

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 11:07:01 PM by 12AX7 »

12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2006, 11:14:40 PM »
Hello Whatsnext!


I'm glad you replied.   You are the first one "so far"  to say "nope"  "can't work"

And it's pretty late here right now..   and I've got lots to get done yet to night.

So for now let me ask you a quick question.. and later I'll get back to why I think it will work.  (I admitt..   how well is one of them TBD things)  

So anyways..   Tell me,  how much HEAD does the wind have?  I think the wind is as smart as the water.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 11:14:40 PM by 12AX7 »

elvin1949

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2006, 11:40:55 PM »
It does work .

you can buy them of the shelf at big sailboat dealers.

later

elvin


PS for homestead use google JACKRABBIT genarator.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 11:40:55 PM by elvin1949 »

12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2006, 11:56:58 PM »
Hello Zubbly!!!


I've been hanging around this site for well over a year.   I've read many of your posts.   and spent time at your site looking at your pics.   VERY NICE!

The idea of a well pump has crossed my mind.  I know the idea of STAINLESS STEEL..  sounds so nice to many.    IT DOESN'T RUST!   EVERYTHING else about it sucks.

it's hard, yet brittle..   sucks to drill and tap.  run a ss screw in and out more than a few times..and the threads get all boogered up.   On top of all that..  the crap stretches like nuts.  and then..   lets not talk about welding the stuff...

but it don't rust.

Took me a few years of climbing up and down the tower cause the beams were pointing any where else cetp north,  when the rotor (no ..  not a genny!) said NORTH.


Damn RUST FREE BOLTS...  get em good n tight..   buggers would stretch and loosen in no time.  Yes I know there are better grade SS hardware out there,  such a pain to find.


Zubbly,  I've lots of Questions for you!  and .. for now just a few.

like...  how about my question I posted here?  How slow can it go?

Have you seen Phase Motion Controls wind gen site?  it's a bugger to find sometimes (don't know why)  Their home page does not have a link to the windgen stuff (at least I've never found it).

PMC has a lot of slick servos (some water cooled)

If you haven't already..   Please google Phase Motion Control generators.  it's a pdf

600KW and more..  RPMs.. around 20   TWENTY rpm.

Lots of questions..  but running out of poop to think let alone type.

COGGING!   yeah!  cogging!    when the light weight guys tweak their alt's to lessen cogging it's to allow the blades to start up from a stopped condition,  right?

When one "un" coggs a gen,   do they loose out on power?

Cogging shouldn't be an issue if the wheel is always turning?   am I barking up a tree here?  

Oh!   "LIGHTWEIGHTS"...   my fingers musta made that up!   them the persons that are flying blades..   in the wind!   H20..  now that's some heavy stuff!

Like I said,  I'm just about to crash.  

Hope you check back...  cause I have lots of questions...


thanks for the reply..  (lookin  for more)


and    It's been awhole lota fun already!    and plenty more to come.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 11:56:58 PM by 12AX7 »

12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2006, 12:03:54 AM »
Hello Pepa


There are units out there that look alot like electric trolling motors (I think thats JUST what they are)

just 10 times the price!  


They are slick!    but I'm dreaming of "grunt grunt grunt"  "more power".


Another main issue for me... is the water/paddle wheel it's self.  I want one!


If I build it... it might turn!

« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 12:03:54 AM by 12AX7 »

12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2006, 12:07:38 AM »
Hello Ghurd


"more power less money"    I think we're on the same page.  if not..must be the same chapter!


Thanks!

« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 12:07:38 AM by 12AX7 »

12AX7

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2006, 12:13:13 AM »
Hello Nando


I think of "turbin" and I think of a loud whistling noise.  the paddle wheel may go "splooch splooch splooch"..  and when needed I'll just crank up the stereo a wee bit.  


besides that...  discharged water ...will really piss off them dnr dudes.  and this close to a river?   nah..   I'll sit that one out!

« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 12:13:13 AM by 12AX7 »

zubbly

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2006, 06:48:51 AM »
hi 12AX7 !


to this point in time, i have only really experimented with making wind gens. they are based on running on a higher rpm than what i think water driven gens would be at. however, i do think it is well worth a try. you would have to do some experimentation yourself in order to be sure. i do suggest using the 3 phase 230 and 460 volt models if you can get your hands on a good used unit. with the higher voltage they are made for, you would have cut in speed at a much lower rpm. i did speak with a few friends last night on the subbject, and thier calculations show that it is possible to get up to 200 rpm with a 3 mph stream flow. perhaps you could join us there sometime on the irc. the place is loaded with very experienced people in many fields


as far as cogging goes, yes there is always a small loss when a set of mags are skewed in order to ease start up.  i think it is well worth doing and thinkyou gain much more in the long run. if you are going to convert a rotor, its just as easy to skew the first time around.


i have had no problems to find quality stainless for the rare times that i use it. use good quality and make all holes and threadings to spec and you should have good results. the 2 or 4 studs that fasten the submersible motor to pump should give you plenty to work with for mounting without having to further weld or drill and tap.


keep in mind 12AX7 that i have only been expressing my ideas to you. none of it has been tried by myself before and only offer it as a possible solution to what you have been looking for.


hope it helps ya.

have fun!


zubbly

« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 06:48:51 AM by zubbly »

roddy

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2006, 06:53:16 AM »
google thropton energy services, they make an interesting low head hydro unit that looks interesting. anybody have any experience??
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 06:53:16 AM by roddy »

roddy

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2006, 06:55:01 AM »
If I build it... it might turn!


I like that, sometimes that's what I feel like with this "pipe"dream of mine.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 06:55:01 AM by roddy »

roddy

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2006, 07:07:10 AM »
I probably should've said google the amazon aquacharger from Rutland who teamed up with thropton. few pics and less info, but looking at the picture is what started me thinking about my stream.


 http://www.marlec.co.uk/products/prods/amozon.htm


Roddy

« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 07:07:10 AM by roddy »

Gary D

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Re: Low speed hydro
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2006, 08:18:12 AM »
 Maybe I should have put it a better way. The country way! If you've ever seen a combine head for harvesting wheat at work, the only "working part" of it is the bottom area contacting the wheat. The rest is in open air. If it was made 14 foot tall, still the only "working part" would be the same bottom. the gearing would have to change dramatically tho(going to 14 feet), as well as more bars (or paddles), to do the exact same ammount of work. Combine heads come in many harvesting widths, but you don't see them going with a bigger height.... The "working part" of a paddle wheel is going to be the same no matter your height(to a point). The width will determine how much water see's (or interacts) with the blades, half barrels, or what you choose.... Just to clarify my thoughts. Whatever you go with, have fun with it!

 I only have a spring fed trickle of about 3 gallons a second to play with as time and the "boss" permits, quite limited as a power source... Gary D.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 08:18:12 AM by Gary D »