Author Topic: $4 Trojan T-125s ?! (Read 3457 times)

elt · « **on:** July 31, 2008, 10:16:48 PM »

It was suggested to me that I ask at the auto parts dealer if I could look at the dead batteries they've taken in. I did and I found eight Trojan T-125's on the pallet around back!

The manager said that since they weren't car batteries (the new ones were a special order for a customer) that his warehouse wouldn't do anything with them so I could have them for the core fee, $4 a piece. Hoping that I could rejuvenate four out of the eight, I took them all.

There's a slight variation in the case style, four are different than the others. Four of one set read over 6 volts; four of the other set read 2 to 3 volts... perhaps four of them are good! Well, I'll get a charger on them and then a load to see if I got lucky but I'm hopeful that it was $32 well spent!

- Ed.

StorminN · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2008, 05:31:46 PM »

Good score!

As long as no plates are shorted inside them, they should be fine. Buy or build a good pulser (desulfator) and they will be good to go...

-N.

mixerman · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2008, 06:04:08 PM »

I was at the junk yard today to get a radiator for the pickup! While I was there a kid was getting 4 bucks apice for old batterys , I walked over to where thay were being stored but didnt see anything of intrest. Some guys have all the luck!

zeusmorg · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2008, 06:27:50 PM »

Sometimes ya get lucky at finding old batteries that have life left in them,, i know when i was a mechanic, i never bought a battery, i just pulled the best out of the ones replaced.

When out looking for batteries, it would be a good idea to take along a voltmeter, at least and a good hydrometer may help in picking good ones.

elt · « **Reply #4 on:** August 01, 2008, 08:19:02 AM »

> take along a voltmeter, at least and a good hydrometer

Good idea. I do have a pocket DVM and I don't know why I didn't take it.

I started charging a pair of the "good" ones and they are sucking in 25 amps so I take that as good sign; the charging voltage is rising rather quickly so I take that as a bad sign. At a glance, I'm guessing that they are at about 50% of new capacity... So many batteries and I only have one desulfater!

- Ed.

DanB · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2008, 02:00:43 PM »

A couple simple things to do...

check the voltage, if they're up around 6V or more each that's good.

Look carefully at the positive terminal - if its raised at all (the plastic might be raised up slightly in a sort of mound around it) - they're probably shot.

The sides of the case look slightly bulged out - thats not uncommon even on a new battery, but - if they're hard (theyre bulged out and you cannot push them in with your hands) its a bad sign. That usually goes along with a raised positive terminal.

They're probably shot in my experience with similar deals.

chubbytrucker01 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2008, 02:19:48 PM »

Even if they are all shot I have seen allot of signs at recyclers offering $10 for batteries. Lead is at an all time high price.

elt · « **Reply #7 on:** August 01, 2008, 05:23:30 PM »

Thanks for that - I read about the terminal bulge googling the board but didn't see anything about the side bulge. The terminals aren't bulged and I can push in the sides a little with my thumb so I'll keep my fingers crossed.

For starters, I've put a quart of water in the "good" set and and two quarts of water in the other ... I don't think that the guy that owns the golf cart knows that batteries need water.

The first pair charged for four hours at 25 amps and then ran at diminishing current for three more. I have the second pair on know. I'm thinking to get as much charge as I can into all of them and then to do more testing.

- Ed.

elt · « **Reply #8 on:** August 02, 2008, 05:14:34 PM »

I completed initial testing on one pair.

[Is this testing valid?]

Before test -

12.7v and 1.275 SG ... close to 100% according to the Trojan Battery Users Guide

Test -

2.33 amps (about c/100) for 20 hours; 46.6 AH

After Test -

12.40v and 1.225 SG ... close to 72% according to TBUG

Assuming 100% charge (what else could I assume and any lessor number just makes the batteries look better...) then

the test used 28% of the capacity so 46.6 AH / .28 = 166 AH capacity. (66% of new)

Well, that will give me something to compare the effect of desulfating.

The second pair hasn't been tested yet other than to see that it has held last night's charge.

Thank you,

- Ed.

bob g · « **Reply #9 on:** August 02, 2008, 05:55:59 PM »

it appears that if your specific gravity after fully charging is near

what the new battery spec is supposed to be, that is as good as the batteries will ever be,

desulfators will not improve on this result, because they cannot

all the acid has been driven back out and into the electrolyte solution.

if you have a battery that after several hours of charging followed by an equalization charge of sufficient voltage still does not come up to around

the full charge specific gravity, then try the desulfator to see if it can get the

specific gravity up the rest of the way.

that is where the rubber meets the road

bob g

elt · « **Reply #10 on:** August 02, 2008, 07:03:51 PM »

So, if the SG is at factory spec then (assuming that the electrolyte hasn't been messed up at some point) then diminished capacity would likely be due do to plate damage or wear?

- Ed.

bob g · « **Reply #11 on:** August 03, 2008, 08:53:03 AM »

yes

this is assuming no one has added pure acid it the electrolyte in an effort to squeeze more life out of them, but i would find that very unlikely.

yes if you have deminished capacity it is because the plate are worn thin, at the point.

you might just run them through a few cycles and keep fully charging them, to see if they might recover a bit more.

getting the specific gravity back up with a good charge leads me to believe you have some batteries that have some useful life left in them.

keep a log book on them and put em to work.

bob g

elt · « **Reply #12 on:** August 03, 2008, 09:14:55 AM »

Okay, in my newbie-inahurry mode, I didn't check the SG of all the cells.

In one battery, the SG is 1.275 in two cells and 1.265 in the other.

In the other battery, the SG is 1.275 in two cells and 1.250 in the other.

Neither my smart charger nor my dumb charger have an equalization mode.

Is this a stupid idea or what...

What about putting a 12 volt string on the dumb charger and setting it to 24 volt mode? If it matters, it only has 6 amps (about C/30) in 24 volt mode

Thank you,

- Ed.

kurt · « **Reply #13 on:** August 03, 2008, 03:30:34 PM »

the dumb charger should go up to 16v open or so plenty for an equalization charge you can check that carefully don't blow it up. try setting it for its 2 amp setting if it has one and just leaving it charge overnight or even 24 hours if need be just be sure they have plenty of water in them first.

elt · « **Reply #14 on:** August 03, 2008, 03:54:25 PM »

Thanks kurt,

I guess that I should have written "dumber" charger instead of dumb charger; it does have an automatic float mode in both 12 and 24 volt mode so it won't go up to 16v in 12 volt mode. Was wondering about putting it in 24 volt mode and connecting it to a 12volt string. Or maybe to three batteries in an 18v string? Is that a big no-no?

Thanks again,

- Ed.

elt · « **Reply #15 on:** August 03, 2008, 05:45:51 PM »

The second set of four T-125's:

This set looks a little older than the first set. They were very dry and the plates were exposed in most of the cells. It took about of three quarts of distilled water to get the level up to the proper level in two sessions (the water seem to soak in overnight and the levels went down.)

The electrolyte in all the batteries has a brownish tinge to it. I don't know what's going on with that...

I put two in a string on the dumber charger. The "charge complete" LED came on immediately and stayed on but the amp meter was reading about 3 amps. The charger was turning on and off very quickly... The cycling slowed as voltage went up and the battery took more amps. In about a half hour the amp meter was up to 5 amps and the the "charge complete" LED was staying off.

Once the amps got up to 9 amps (about all the dumber charger will put out,) I put the string on the smart charger and set it to 25 amps. Within a few seconds the smart charge beeped and ending the bulk charge cycle and went to absorption; in this mode the batteries took about 17 amps. I left it that way for about an hour and a half.

The volts went up to about 14.2v. Two cells were bubbling nicely and the water level in them had risen almost to the bottom of the cap. Somewhere between yesterday when I added the water and today I'd read not to add water (as long as the plates are covered) unless a battery is fully charged because the water level will rise during charging... Yes, it does.

Does that mean that I watered down the electrolyte enough to bother anything?

I didn't like it that two cells (one in each battery) were bubbling so much but nothing was happening in the other four and I wasn't sure whether I should leave the batteries charging over night but figured it was safe to put the charger into equalization mode so that's where I left it for the night.

- Ed.

wooferhound · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2008, 04:27:35 AM »

I personally would go ahead and try the 24v charger on the battery to try and equalize them.

Pay close attention to how hot the charger gets

and

Pay close attention to the batteries charge level

over 16 volts for a few hours will bring some new life back to your batteries

elt · « **Reply #17 on:** August 04, 2008, 06:45:02 AM »

> figured it was safe to put the charger into equalization mode [...]

Oops. That should have read "desulfate mode".

I'll leave them there for a week or so and then try charging them again.

- Ed.

elt · « **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2008, 09:05:36 AM »

Thanks woof, that gave me the courage to try it... didn't like it.

With two batteries, the charger hummed loudly and did didn't show any current going into the batteries. With three batteries, the charger was quiet but showed nine amps going into the batteries. "But" because it's only rated for 5 amps at 24 volts.

Now I've learned that "dumb charger" really means the guy operating it... I had the mode switch set to "auto." In "manual" mode, the charge complete LED comes on but the charger doesn't turn off so in 12 volt mode the charger will stay on an it will do an equalization.

Okay, so I've learned something... it's a good day so far!

Thanks again,

- Ed.

elt · « **Reply #19 on:** August 05, 2008, 04:22:38 AM »

> The electrolyte in all the batteries has a brownish tinge to it.

Brown stuff is shed from the plates as they wear and settles to the bottom. Moving, shaking or bubbling during charging can bring some of it up. It settles again overnight and the electrolyte becomes clear again.

- Ed.

JW · « **Reply #20 on:** August 05, 2008, 09:32:13 AM »

One thing that could explain that, is that they were topped off at some point, using tap or well water, this would add a contaminate, such as minerals from the water. Only add distilled water to them.

You may be able to replace the electrolite with store bought electrolite. This is found at the auto parts store, generally packaged in a cardboard box with a bag inside to hold the electrolite. This may, or may not work, depends. If you go that route, use only distilled water to flush the sediment.

JW

elt · « **Reply #21 on:** August 06, 2008, 08:02:40 AM »

Thanks JW,

> You may be able to replace the electrolite with store bought electrolite.

I got 5 gallons at a battery store for $13 USD. (I figured that if I did all eight batteries then I'd need about 3 gallons.)

I did two pair yesterday. The sludge at the bottom is so heavy that it doesn't readily come out. After two gallons and six rinses, it was still coming out so I had to say "better is good enough" and put in the new electrolyte.

That leaves me wondering this: that pair was one of the second set where the water was way below the plates so I'm assuming that they are sulfated. So if I desulfate them, won't the SG go through the roof? ... I'll be monitoring the SG regularly to see if that happens.

Thanks again,

- Ed.

bob g · « **Reply #22 on:** August 06, 2008, 10:00:13 AM »

yes if you break down the sulfation the specific gravity will go through the roof with the new electrolyte being in there.

i would suggest you drain the electrolyte, fill the cells with fresh distilled water

and put them on a good stiff charge for several hours, maybe even a few days.

keeping an eye to not overheat them and take frequent specific gravity readings of the water,, over time as the sulfation breaks down the specific gravity of the water will rise and then plateau.

after it rises to as high as you can get it, drain the battery again and put in the new electrolyte.

if you don't do this and leave the new electrolyte in there, if the sulfation does break down the acid will be so strong it will eat up your plates in an agressive manner.

bob g

elt · « **Reply #23 on:** August 09, 2008, 03:21:35 PM »

Of the older four batteries, it looks like three have a shorted cell in them and the fourth has two shorted cell. (I couldn't find a lot of info on shorted cells so I'm guessing that.) The symptoms are that the cells get warm but don't bubble (or bubble only a little bit) and the specific gravity won't come up. Three batteries quickly self-discharge to three or four volts. The fourth one almost holds a charge. It only looses about .2 volts a day.

Lacking any revelations, I'll take them to be recycled during the week.

It's been quite a lesson in end-of-life of lead acid batteries (and quite an incentive to keep my good batteries from getting there!)

Thanks you,

- Ed.

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Author Topic: $4 Trojan T-125s ?! (Read 3457 times)