First Windmill on Dmx Tower

[Smoked]

Hi, first i want to thanks everybody on this board who given me this hobby and passion.

It been a while since i'm reading on the board. I'm living in town, but my parents own an isolated house with a 40 foots dmx tower that were used for tv antenna and large CB antenna (CB antenna as been removed, and Tv antenna relocated). I plan to put a mill (don't know yet the size) over the top of tower on a pipe. I'll probably be limited to 2 inches by the top plate, but i'll probably make thicker one with 2.5 inches hole. For that i'll probably take the section down since i don't like to be belted to something barely holding ...

I know that i'll hear vibration from the mill in the house.

Here are the specs of tower; http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/DMX.pdf

they state a wind area of 3 square feet for the 40' tower i'm working on.

In the guyed Dmx Specs; http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/CGTowers.pdf if i understood well, they state of tower going to 147ft with an horizontal wind load of 300lbs and an antenna weight of 80lbs. It use some bigger and smaller section that the one that compose mine; my two highest section are smaller than their one.

I'm on the way to design a geared PM motor with furling and if everything fail or fall there will be on main blade shaft a centrifugal clutch that will begin to brake if the chain broke or furling mechanism fail. I guess it should be lighter than dual rotor generator.

Here are some picture on the field.

The wind was moving the tower a lot whit this large antenna. It's lightweight but take wind well. Now its removed.

Before any modification, it was looking like this.

This is two plans with mesure for guy wires.

I'm currently using 7*19 galvanized wire. The 19 and 35 foot guys are 1/8. The one near of cheminy is 5/32. I did not find galvanized or hardened Turnbuckles so i used 1/4 turnbuckles. I used Thimbles everywhere a guy attach to something.

I locked my schackle with fence galvanized wire #16. My wire rope clips are made of cheap metal so i'll put Stainless one before putting the mill on top.

the 19 foot guy is on roof, but guy continue to the concrete basement where its anchored.

Reinforcement has been made on higher roof witch encouraged me to climb to large cb antenna.

In this picture i put pipe in the tower legs to avoid bending, and put large flat washer with nylon lock on U-bolt.

So its looking like this,but now i have guy installed. The red arrow show where the tower is anchored to something.

I was thinking to use anchor points like this, but the load would always 'open' the tower's leg.

So I installed something like a collar that hold over the tower and take the 'expansion' load. the outgoing legs are also acting as stablizer like the real tower giving more strenght to counter twist.

Almost all therms and guys words came from http://www.baronsnaps.com to be well understood from the english majority of the board.

As i write this i realized that i should have went with 5/32 on top at beggening and i'll reuse my 1/8 to 30 foot. I'll do that this week end if experimented ones found it clever and enought strong.

Remember the tower is not intended to be tilted.

Now it's the question time !

1. - Are the guys big enough (considering 5/32 top & 1/8@30ft)?
   
2. - Is the mis alignement of guys wire of 4-5deg critical ?
   
3. - What size of mill can i put on this kind of tower (guyed as i plan or following your experience)
   
3. a What size of guy should i use if i plant to put a 10footer axial later ?
   
4. - Are my standard turnbuckle a critical failure potential ?
   
5. a- A ground wire is bolted on the lower tower leg to a 6ft rod, should i keep it ?
   
5. b- Should i ground the guys?
   
5. c- Should i ground the inverter in basement with main braker box ground ?
   
   

Before you ask, i consider climbing when its dark as almost normal, so i'm a bit sick in the head.

[mitcamp]

Smoked, I would never attach a wind generator to a dwelling because of vibration.  After it,s been up for a week or so, you will know what I mean.

 That DMX tower will handle a Hugh Piggott 4 foot or modified 6 foot dual rotor if you change both plates on the top section with heavier 3/16 or 1/4 inch metal.

 You must use black iron pipe for a mast and keep it short. No more than 1 foot above the tower. And it must be guyed as you have that in your plan.

Your tower will not support a 10 foot Dual Rotor, nor will it support a 8 footer.  Mitcamp

[SparWeb]

It certainly is unique.  If your wind turbine isn't too large, then this may work well.  I don't know what windmill you do intend to put on the tower, but I know that if it was mine it would be too noisy!  Mine sends vibrations through the tower and propeller tip noise is audible inside my house, 50 meters away from the tower.

Be that as it may, the tower has a lot of inherent rigitidy, so using 5/32" may be okay, but only if you have a small windmill.  If the propeller diameter is larger than 1.5 meters, then you will put a lot of load on the wires.

I won't bother trying to understand what you did to attach the cables to the roof trusses.  That can only be figured out by someone inspecting in person.

Question 1: just enough, but 1/4" is my minimum for 8 feet diameter.  I would use 3/8" for anything bigger.

Q2: Small misalignment doesn't matter when the tower has inherent stability of a truss.

Q3: No matter how securely you attach it, the noise from a 10-foot mill on your house will keep you awake at night.

Q4: if they are 1/8" or 3/16" turnbuckles then yes they are.  If they are bent-rod turnbuckles, even more so.  Turnbuckles that will be loaded with wind should be forged.  Look at the "Crosby" brand name for examples.

Q5: Yes

Q6: Sure.

Q7: Maybe.  It depends on what side of the Atlantic you live.  You write with an "accent", so I don't know what rules apply.

Good luck.  My general rule for towers is that "If you don't know how big the load is, assume it's twice as much as you think it might be, then design for twice that much again".

[Smoked]

thanks for the inputs,

I plan to go between 6 to 8 foot. I was not planning to put a 10footer axial on this, but wanted some answers and clues about the stiffness of the tower.

If it is too noisy, it will be moved next spring or summer.

[tanner0441]

Hi

That looks like a light weight tower I have installed PMR equipment on masts and towers and the cross braces on that will realy hurt your feet. There is a lot of difference in wind loading between a couple of antenas that only load the mast in the direction of the wind. The torque on the top of the mast when a turbine yaws is a different thing all together, spin a bicycle wheel and try to twist it.  I think 3/16 guy wires are a bit on the light side for 40 ft, I would have expected 3/8.

As for vibration, I have just put up a single pipe mast only 20ft tall, I was surprised how the thing buzzed as the load came on the turbine.

I would invest in a good climbing harness as well before going up the thing.

Good luck

Brian.

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

You'll want to move the guy wires from the house to the ground as well - they also conduct vibration.

I wouldn't run it at all while it's attached to the house in any way - even for a week or so.  The vibration isn't just an annoyance.  It works the nails out of the house frame.

[Smoked]

Thanks ULRod, truth is sometime crude, but less than a failure.

I'll have a hard time to relocate this guy since the house hide a lot of ground, and the closest line of sight place it almost on the road and tractor cross here

here what it look like in panorama with picture not intended for.

http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/10350/Panora1.jpg

If i don't want to hold something to house it will be even harder with the 30 foot guy set since its at the same level than rooftop. I'll make nightmare tonight guys !

[Smoked]

Today i'll set the new guy holder on tower at 30 foots with the small 1/8 guy that i already have. I'll put the holder in the way they get out of tower of 6 in each side in a manner to hold tower against twisting a bit like this

It will assure tower while im working on it.

After that, i'll go top and drop the upper section to change top plates for 3/16 plates, with 1x1po angle 6 inches long to hold U-Bolt

I'll also put stainless wire clips.

I don't plan to go bigger than 8' and i'll set to start furl before 15m/s. Following the different formula i found on board, i should have wind load between 129, 152 or 175lbs

I was planning to have the mast going out of top close to 5 foots to clear blades from tower.

If i can't relocate the guy from the top of house i'll reconsider something bigger than 6foot.

Brian

Thanks for the input, some people certainly risk their lives going up not well secure, but i'm used to climb.

I'm a radio-telecom tech and i also climb tower 3 time a month, but currently for job only, its more 3 time a week. Here i am with my gears, mother found paint after i installed braces

I am good at maths but i don't know about iron work, tolerances, metal strength, and other physical laws. I take lots of notes and does my homework..

I've CADed my axial parts and lazer cut but didn't know about tolerances, so everything is so close that i needed to loosen all parts with dremel.

It was sad to remove some material from my 12 magnet alu template before i can ever use it.

[pepa]

    carry the cable completely over the house roof and mount to pole tall enough ro clear roof. add guys to post, the same as power lines do. pepa