Author Topic: Pumping Water Uphill -- not for power -- to use the water!  (Read 10044 times)

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WannaDoWindmills

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Pumping Water Uphill -- not for power -- to use the water!
« on: April 23, 2009, 03:26:26 PM »
Hello,  my family is on-grid and working on putting up a windmill to test available power in our area.


My brother, on the other hand, is very far from everything.  He is completely off-grid and is also living with electricity.  Actually, he probably does use a few items with batteries.


In any case, the walk down to the creek is more of a hassle than what he had figured.  So, he wants to pump the water uphill.  He sent me on a mission to find out if he could do this with solar power.


Please advise,

Annette

« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 03:26:26 PM by (unknown) »

spinningmagnets

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Re: Pumping Water Uphill off-grid ideas
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 10:13:24 AM »
Every bit of solar watts that you generate should go into the battery. There are many solar water-heat, solar air-heat, and water-pumping ideas that are a better use of your time and money.


Hoe much volume of flow does the creek have? Roughly estimate the cross-section of the creek, and then throw a floating object into it. Measure how far it travels in 10 seconds, multiply by 6, then by the area of the cross-section. This will give you a rough "gallons per minute".


Or a pic might be helpful in generating suggestions that are site-appropriate.


Here's a couple of interesting water-pumping ideas:


http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/1/20/15324/6627

Water-wheel from wheelchair parts, piston water-pump from Home Depot parts


http://lurkertech.com/water//pump/tailer/

spiral-tube water-pump, turned by paddles in stream, easy to make


Also look at www.builditsolar.com

« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 10:13:24 AM by spinningmagnets »

madkane

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Re: Pumping Water Uphill --
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 11:37:36 AM »
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phppump/pump_equations_water_horse_power.php


i was asked somthing similar a while back and this site has a few formulas to help with idea

« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 11:37:36 AM by madkane »

Rover

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Re: Pumping Water Uphill --
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 12:36:58 PM »
Depending on the head for the pump, which will dictate how large a pump and then how much current draw it will need. Also need to factor in how much water he plans to pump, etc based on need, and the distance to be pumped


By head.. how far uphill is it in feet that the water will have to travel. This is a vertical measurement.


I have a 1500 gph (galons per hpour) bilge pump pumping the water off a solar array of 300W (with a 460 amp hr battery bank), if he has the sun, and  a few baaterie than it is entirelu feasible. I use this to run an artificaila waterall / stream 15' long with about a 5 ft head.


The pump I use is a run of the mill submerged 12v bilge pump, they tend to be cheaper than anything else. My pump draw 4 amps at 12.6 v , My pump runs continuously for 4 hours each week day, 12 hours each weekend day.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 12:36:58 PM by Rover »
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kurt

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Re: Pumping Water Uphill
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 01:20:56 PM »
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 01:20:56 PM by kurt »

wooferhound

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Re: Pumping Water Uphill
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 06:00:30 PM »


Divebuddy did some amazing stuff with the water pump in these stories...

http://www.fieldlines.com/user/divebuddy/stories

« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 06:00:30 PM by wooferhound »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Use a hydraulic ram.
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 08:32:30 PM »
If there's any head at all to that creek the proper tool for the job is a hydraulic ram.


You can make one out of a few hunks of pipe, some plumbing fittings, and two check valves.  Lots of plans on the internet (and some references to them on this board.)


Once started (and they'll auto-start if properly configured) they'll operate for decades with no maintenance.  They automatically trade flow for head as necessary to get the water up the hill to you.


So pump it up further - to a raised storage tank to both provide the operating pressure and to store the water as it is slowly pumped up and release it quickly when you need it to flush, run a bath, fill a sink, or whatever.  The overflow on the tank regulates your pressure.  (Be sure you have a good way for the extra water to go back to the stream or do something useful or decorative, rather than eroding your foundations.)


Three moving parts (plus the water, of course):  The balls in the two check valves and a cotter pin or something jiggling around in the "snifter hole" to keep it from clogging so the "pressure dome" (yet another hunk of pipe with a pipe cap on the end) always has an air bubble in it.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 08:32:30 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

ghurd

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Re: Pumping Water Uphill --
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 11:37:08 PM »
Dude!

Might want to look at the Attwood V-series pumps.


WannaDo,

Yes he can.  Piece of cake.

Cost depends on the head, sun and gallons per day.

G-

« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 11:37:08 PM by ghurd »
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Flux

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Re: Use a hydraulic ram.
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2009, 01:12:58 AM »
If there is enough head and flow to do the job then the ram is the obvious choice but most reject it in favour of hi tec solutions.


If your brother doesn't want electricity and is prepared to spend money on solar panels then my original answer still applies but you gave nothing to go on.


If he is also interested in some electricity from battery power then trying more basic ways of pumping water would free up the solar for better use but we have no details to work from.


If the stream has no head but plenty of flow then look at the spiral pump.


Flux

« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 01:12:58 AM by Flux »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Use a hydraulic ram.
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 10:46:11 PM »
I've occasionally wondered how well a hydraulic ram would work if the ram tube and waste valve were just moored in a flowing stream.  B-)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 10:46:11 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

Flux

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Re: Use a hydraulic ram.
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2009, 12:54:58 AM »
I suspect it could be done but you would need to make lots of changes. I have had trouble keeping any conventional ram working under 18" drive head.


Commercial machines struggle below 3ft drive head and my valves to get it working reliably at 18" are unconventional. There comes a time when there is not enough energy in the recoil to open the waste valve, below 1ft I suspect you need to get extra energy from some other means and you may need some independent valve operating scheme.


Flux

« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 12:54:58 AM by Flux »

willib

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Re: Pumping Water Uphill -- not for power
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2009, 07:05:48 PM »
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 07:05:48 PM by willib »
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thirteen

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Re: Pumping Water Uphill -- to use the water!
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2009, 12:11:27 AM »
Is there a possible freezing problem? You might need more than one lift station if the elevation is to high.  Just some ideas
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 12:11:27 AM by thirteen »
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Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Use a hydraulic ram.
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2009, 12:14:52 AM »
Opening the waste gate valve may be a whole different dynamic if it's fully submerged in the river.  B-)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 12:14:52 AM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

richhagen

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Re: Pumping Water Uphill
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2009, 03:35:30 PM »
You beat me to posting that one.  If you are going to use solar power, then that seems the most reliable and lowest cost because the batteries are out of the equation.  


I was also thinking of, I think it was their neighbor Scott's, Ram Pump, that one reqires no batteries and uses the potential energy of the water in the creek to move the water.  Seems the best solution if the situation at the posters location allows for it.  


Have fun, Rich

« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 03:35:30 PM by richhagen »
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