Author Topic: wood gas  (Read 10073 times)

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mikey ny

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wood gas
« on: March 29, 2005, 01:44:45 PM »
Hello all,

     I am abit new to this forum. I am experimenting with wood gas and gasification. My summer project will be to convert a gas burner gun to burn wood gas. I am going to try to draw the wood gas produced from a downdraft gasifier into a 275 gal. oil tank, useing a small vacume pump, Then i will use air pressure to force it into some empty propane tanks so i will have gas for later use. It sounds simple enough but i know i will have some problems. My oil tank may buckle under too much vacume and my gasifier will not operate with too little vacume. It may also be dangerous because the gas will be volitle. Anyone ever try this? How dangerous could it be.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 01:44:45 PM by (unknown) »

farmerfrank

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2005, 10:50:38 AM »
Depending on the LEL (Lower Explosive Limit) of the gas involved and the purity of your process you make have a good start to a big bomb. Hyrdrogen for instance is explosive anywhere from 3 to 97% in air so anywhere in that range it will explode if it finds an ignition source. Gasoline is not nearly as bad. Just something you may want to research before hand rather than after.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 10:50:38 AM by farmerfrank »

suns10

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2005, 11:56:24 AM »
I found a government document on how to build a wood gas generator by FEMA.  I've kept it as it sounds like an interesting project that is well detailed and proven to work. I haven't tried it yet but I may do so as a fun way to run a generator at my hunting cabin. It may have some information or ideas you can add to your project.  They have a nice procedure for starting and stopping the generator that may be useful for safety.  I'll try and attach it as an image .pdf file.  You will need Acrobat reader or a similar .pdf reader installed to view it.  You may need to right-click the image and  select "Save as" to view it.  Good luck with your project.




« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 11:56:24 AM by suns10 »

Peppyy

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2005, 02:15:37 PM »
That is quite a doccument. Reprinted july 1989 and they were already planning on a "petroleum emergency". If I remember correctly my dad told me of a generator at someones house that used to run on wood gas a long tome ago.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 02:15:37 PM by Peppyy »

jimjjnn

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2005, 02:43:38 PM »
I was in Germany 1955-58 and saw a lot of farm tractors still using bio-gas(methane) and wood gas  to propel them as they towed the "Honey Wagons" from field to field . As transportation was rare for many, you'd see whole families riding in a trailer towed behind the tractor heading to town. They did have an aroma about them as you passed them, especially the bio-gas units.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 02:43:38 PM by jimjjnn »

mikey ny

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2005, 03:10:22 PM »
  Thanks for the info folks. I looked at the info you posted and discovered that i actualy have the same exact book on gasifiers. That one is pretty easy to build with the instructions in the book. I kind of figured that i would end up with some explosive problems and that definitly makes me nervous. I would'nt want to blow myself up over a little fun and free fuel, afterall it's not about free fuel, it's about the challenge and learning experiance. I may end up back to working on a better way to burn waste motor oil or waste veg-oil. It is definitely a lot safer. I will build the gasifier from the book and experiment a bit but i am not sure if i will try storeing the gas. Some things are just too good to be easy.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 03:10:22 PM by mikey ny »

healerenergy

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2005, 08:38:21 PM »
If you keep air out of your system you should be ok but build your system as far away from builbings as possible. We did wood gas experiments with heat in high school science class and we used the charcoal after to burn for other things. If I had the ability I'd make some gas now just for the charcoal for my forge it's great for making damascas for knives. If you use a parabolic trough you might get enough heat to produce gas. With all things be careful.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 08:38:21 PM by healerenergy »

Joseph Turrisi

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2005, 10:55:18 PM »
Were did you find this booklet about wood gas
« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 10:55:18 PM by Joseph Turrisi »

suns10

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2005, 09:20:12 AM »
Sorry, I'm not sure where I found it.  It was posted on the internet someplace and I found it when I did a search on wood burning generators.  I had it tucked away in my computer and remembered it when I saw this thread.  You'll probably come across it again if doing a google search for "wood gas generator".  I haven't looked to see if there are any updated versions.  I suppose FEMA may help with locating this document as well?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2005, 09:20:12 AM by suns10 »

alcul8r

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2005, 09:40:51 AM »
The explosive hydrogen could be a problem, but two others are worth mentioning.  Still on the safety front, Carbon monoxide is a major component of producer gas.  Since it is colorless and odorless be sure to use a detector.  Don't remember all the symptoms, but flushed faces and headaches are among them.


The other problem is that nitrogen, which is useless to your burner, is a major part of the producer gas.  For storage purposes you'll be wasting a lot of volume.


Might calculate the volume the vacuum pump will pull and size your burn tube based on that.  Also a vacuum pump will not stand up long unless you scrub your gas pretty well before it gets to the pump.  Not sure of the pneumatic schematic for your system, but are you sure you want to draw a vacuum on the 275 gal tank?


Rex

« Last Edit: March 30, 2005, 09:40:51 AM by alcul8r »

nothing to lose

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2005, 01:41:15 AM »
Everything is an explosive!

The propane or natural gas you use in your cook stove, gas for your lawnmower, gunpowder, we handle explosives every day!

Explosives are perfectly safe and a fact of life! Just know what you are doing and handle them properly. I have acetelyne here also. I been making hydrogen occasionally too. Wood gas is fun, bake a barrel of wood some where around 500F or more, vent off some fumes, light the exhaust it burns nicely and makes a nice torch at night! Run an engine on it. Or make an exploding cannon with it and some pipe, shoots cans nicely :)


Nothing to fear but fear itself or just plain stupidity! Study up a little on what you plan to do and be safe about it. You can hurt yourself changing a car tire, or play with "explosives" safely. Just depends on the person, paying attention, and learning what you are doing before doing it.


 Many people like those model rockets like you buy at Wal-Mart. I basically built mine own. The correct pipe, some "explosive", an aluminum can, cloth rag for a parrachute fastened to can. Perfectly safe for me, some fool might hurt themself looking into the pipe when it goes off and blow their danged head off. Just depends.


 If you want wood gas I have post here somewhere about a basic charcoal maker I built in about 10-20 minutes I think it was. Took me longer to post the pictures than it did to build the barrel and stand. If your wanting to store the gas, that might be a better way to go than producer gas.


Basically make a 3 sided enclosure with a top to hold heat, weld a 2" pipe onto a 55gal drum, place alot of dry wood loosely in the barrel (not tight), seal the lid back on, bake at about 500F or more. Just build a large fire under the barrel to bake it. The hotter the fire the faster you get the gas, just don't over do it. The less heat you loose the less feul you need. Placing a front 4th side helps too if you leave plenty of room for the air to get into the fire.

When the gas stops comming out the charcoal is done, let it cool (like over night) before you open the barrel. If you open the barrel while it's too hot the charcoals ingnite and burns.

 If you don't want the charcoal for anything else then use it to bake the next batch of wood to get the gas :)


Nice thing about this is you can also make it self feuling, just loop the pipe comming out the top under the barrel, cap the end, drill holes for like a gas oven burner. When the gas come out the pipe the fire lights the gas, the burning gas heats the barrel cooking out more gas. If you let it go wild you get more heat than you need and burn off all the gas for no reason, but you get great charcoal. If you tap into the pipe with a T at the top and use a valve you can adjust the flow under the barrel and burn off some gas to make more gas while still keeping gas for other uses. Just need to play with it to get it right.


The first gas you will get will probably not be good, it will contain more moisture and resins etc.. just pipe it under the barrel to burn it if you want. When that's burning good start collecting the gas from the second pipe, run it through a filter to remove moisture, tars and resins and cool it. You should not have much trash beyond the filter, mostly just good burnable gas. Charcoal also works well as a filter.

Because you are not burning the wood that is producing the gas I don't think you will have carbonmonoxide, your not actually burning the wood in the barrel, just baking out the impurities.


 I have not stored any of the gas yet myself, I have ran a riding mower engine on it alittle but I hadn't filtered it or cooled it like I should have at that time. I just wanted the Charcoal and the gas was a by-product. I have many projects going at once here and have not totally finished any of them yet. I get to the point one is working and I get back on another that isn't working.


Anyway, if you try the above do not build a pressure in the steel 55gal barrel or you might burst it. Make sure you also do it in a safe area where you won't burn anything down etc.. Maybe do some searching for charcoal makers, foundries, retorts, etc.. even blacksmithing. This is a great way to make charcoal for all the above uses plus anything else you can use it for. You will probably find pictures of this type setup, I lost the link but I saw one with flames shooting out about 2-3' from a block oven once, all he was doing was a wild fire burning off the gas just for the charcoal. That one of course was self feuling once it was started. Interesting picture.


 It's not hard to make the gas, the trick is how to store it. Be safe!

« Last Edit: March 31, 2005, 01:41:15 AM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2005, 01:57:58 AM »
I beleave the gas would be methane and about as safe as propane or natural gas, or as dangerous, depending on the individual person. Some people do blow up their cookstoves or Bar-B-Que grills.

 Methane is not basically all that dangerous, if it were most landfills and alot of peoples ceptic systems would be exploding all over the place :)


 The other things like carbonmonoxide is a breathing hazzard that can kill, but I do not think explodes.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2005, 01:57:58 AM by nothing to lose »

mikey ny

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2005, 05:50:39 AM »
Now this all sounds like too much fun. The gasifier book i got from a site galled the gengas page. It was put out by a guy named Harry LaFontaine who passed away somne time ago. His work is carried on by a guy named Tom Reed, who operates the BEF press (Biomass Energy Foundation Press). He is an excellant source of info on gasifiers. In a small scale experiment i filled an old emplty paint can with some dry maple blocks,put the lid back on, poked about 12 small holes in the lid and put it in my outdoor boiler on a bed of hot coals. After about 15 min. there were 6 inch flames shooting out of the holes, thats what convinced me to go the the next level. So i think it is worth a try to store the gas if i can develope a safe method to do it. Surely, someone else must have tried this before, although i have yet to hear from them. I suppose if they failed in their experiment storing the gas, i may never hear from them

              I intend to use the gas to run through my nat. gas burner gun to backup my wood boiler. The burner does not draw in the gas, since natural gas comes the the house in a pipe under very low pressure i won't need to store the gas at a high pressure. As i said before i think i need to somehow draw the gas into a large container, then seal it and apply air pressure to it to force it into a propane tank. I have no idea how long a 100 lb. propane tank  full of gas will last if i could get it in there in the first place. If I use a downdaft gasifier i will need a vacume or draft of some sort just to keep the gasifier going. If i use a closed cointainer (destructive distilation), the gas may flow into the tank under its own pressure if i pipe it to the tank. That eliminates the need for a vacume and the gasifier is much easier to build and i think you get a better quality gas from it.

With a little more discussion and research i think it will work.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2005, 05:50:39 AM by mikey ny »

DERFMOOSE

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2005, 11:13:53 AM »
   make sure you filter it well

   fow a storage container you need pressure

if you only let the burner do it you either

have to built a heavy burner or suffer with

low pressure.

  take a small compresser with an inlet with

threads, hook it up to your burner through your

filter. a propane tank will hold 200 lbs so a small comp.

will not blow it up.  PLEASE BE CAREFUL !!!!!!!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2005, 11:13:53 AM by DERFMOOSE »

mikey ny

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2005, 05:50:10 PM »
Sounds like a pretty good method using a small compressor after the filter and then into the propane tank. If understand this correctly I would connect a pipe from gasifier to the air intke side of the compressor If i have a place to thread into. The gas will then pass through the compressor and into the tank. Sounds good, even if the gas eventually contaminates the compressor I will throw it away, the small ones are real cheap. The only concern i have is heat and friction in the compressor and the possibility of ignition. I think it may be safer to let the gasifer fill a tank, 55 gal drum or some type of container with its own pressure, when the gas fills the tank, close it off. Then apply air pressure to the tank with a rubber air hose. I believe the tank should be grounded to a ground rod to help avoid a spark from any static electricity that could accumulate during the process. I think the idea with the compressor would be a lot easier if i could be sure the thing would't explode because of a spark from friction in the compressor. I think i have a long way to go before accually atempt this experiment.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2005, 05:50:10 PM by mikey ny »

TERRYWGIPE

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2005, 09:43:57 PM »
If I were doing this I would fill a 55 gal drum with water with a 30 gal drum inverted inside the first, now run the exaust pipe from the wood barel into the 55g drum and up into the 30 gal drum. the gas will fill the 30 gal drum and the water will filter the gas as it fills the drum. connect your compressor to the bottem (now facing up), of the drum with clear piping. when the drum is full , run wour compressor until you see water in the clear hose, then you know you are storing all the gas. Put a pressor guage on your storage tank.


                Terry

« Last Edit: March 31, 2005, 09:43:57 PM by TERRYWGIPE »

mikey ny

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2005, 04:46:21 PM »
so many good ideas to experiment with but so little time. I wish i could retire and just become a tinkerer and junk collector, but of course that may result in divorce and i ain't ready for that.I know the water in the barrel would filter out the particles like ash but will it filter any of the other impurities out, like nitrogen. It would't take much to make a filter before the compressor if i have to. I am still a little weary about explosions while passing gas through the compressor. I will try a small experiment first, like a 1 gal paint can with a pipe coming out the lid into a small compressor and maybe light a small torch with it. I guess a small explosion is better than i big one. Thanks for the help everyone, i will definitly give a full report on all of my experiments. I may not have time until mid-may, although i am now chompin at the bit, it may be sooner.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2005, 04:46:21 PM by mikey ny »

TERRYWGIPE

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2005, 09:25:49 AM »
Although the water would fillter out the heavier impurities, it,s mainly a vaper seal to hold the gas. As the gas fills the 30 gal. inner drum (with vacum pump attached),the drum will rise. The more volume of gas inside the higher the barrol will rise.I would filter it prior to this point.Now you won't have any pressure problems on this side of the compressure. And since it is cleaned before the compressor, no contamination to the compressor. When I was "digesting" biogas, I would add a 6lb weight to add the pressure to go into the house.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2005, 09:25:49 AM by TERRYWGIPE »

mikey ny

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2005, 06:59:26 AM »
what do you do in the winter, the water will freeze. I guess you could use some antifreez in water. I like this idea because it eliminates the processs of pressurizeing the gas. I guess if i had several of these barrel setups it would last a while.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2005, 06:59:26 AM by mikey ny »

DERFMOOSE

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2005, 02:36:03 PM »
  if you do it right the heat of the gas will keep it

from frezin.also MAKE SURE YOU HAVE BURNABLE GAS TO COMPRESS

mixin air and gas makes great big booms. could make for a slight

owie, also if you want to make a 2nd filter use one of those

K&N or clone to final filter good luck    derF
« Last Edit: April 03, 2005, 02:36:03 PM by DERFMOOSE »

nothing to lose

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2005, 01:50:15 AM »
That's what I was going to suggest.


 I would like to add to that then,

 You can also controll a small pressure this way by how much water you are displacing and how high that water rises.


Water weighs about 8lb per gallon, a 30 gallon tank therefor will displace 240 lbs of water if you do it correctly. You do not want much pressure on your wood barrel though.


For what you want to do I really think you should give up the idea of the gasifier and just make charcoal instead. Gasifier might be great if you wanted to move around with a  running engine, but you don't, so why waste the resources that way and have the extra problems like how to create the suction to keep it burning?


Here, look at this posting I did about my 20 minute quicky


http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/11/27/8238/3446


As I recall, and probably mentioned in the post, It had been raining around here and everything was wet or at least moist. Look at the flames in the picture where I lit thesmoke comming out the pipe. Aren't those nice pretty flames :)

 That's the gas you want to compress to use later!


 You can make this thing as big or small as you want.


Make charcoal like this, use the heat however you want, like heat your house with it, while making the charcoal. You will get the gas you want and far better and easier than using a gasifier which I am also working on myself. Once you have your gas, you also have the best charcoal you can get. You have no worries how to keep a vacume, because the wood in the barrel produces a small pressure which forces out the gas. Your not contaminating the gas with carbon monoxide like you will burning wood in a gasifier.


If you want you can use the charcoal for a great many things, blacksmithing, casting metals, cooking food, or just sell it to someone who wants it! If nothing else, use the charcoal as the feul your burning to make the next batch of gas!


Charcoal itself is a great filter, usable in many ways. Set up a barrel to bake wood, pass that gas produced into the bottom of a barrel full of charcoal to filter the gas, pass the gas to a barrrel of water and let it bubble up into the inverted 30 gal barrel as mentioned. You should have really clean gas, now you can use it as it's made and stored here, or pump it into another type of tank.


As for a pump. Run a line/pipe from your 30gal tank, install a flash back arrester, connect to the in port of the aircompressor. Connect a line to the output of the compresser, install another flashback arrester in that line, connect to your storage tank. Now there should be no problems. I will not state for a fact nothing bad can happen, but the worst that "SHOULD EVER" happen is you might get a large pop like a carburator back firing. That should never happen either, but I don't know what you might actually do or how you would do it. But the flasback arresters should stop any fire from getting into either tank, no fire/no explosions. If you made everything correct it should work fine.

I have not tried this yet because I don't want to store the gas like that normally nor use and aircompressor that eats electric :)


Your gonna be working with methane gas, look for info on that. Think ahead and be creative. What is the tempature that Methane gas turns to a liquid, what presure, etc. You will need to check the capabilities of the tank you plan to use. Will it hold that pressure or burst? You actaully will be wanting to turn the methane gas into a liquid most likley if you can. Propane is liquid, it boils off to a gas as you release the pressure on it by using it. Kinda like soda pop fizzles and looses the carbonation when you release the pressure.  Will Methane gas act in the same way? Find out.

 a 100lb propane tank holds very few gallons of propane in a liquid state. I think a 20lb tank is about 2-4 gallons and 100lb tanks maybe 20gallons? I really don't remeber off hand though I just asked the other day when I was filling one of mine.


If you just equalize the pressure from one full propane tank to an empty tank, no you don't get 2 half full tanks! Alot of people think that. The pressure equalizes but the empty tank only gets a pressure, the propane that entered into that tank does  not become a liquid at that pressure. So what does it take to turn it into a liquid? I am thinking I could simply freeze it and that would do it for me, but I have not tried and just geussing. So the same thing you need to think about for storing your methane gas in tanks or bottle like propane or old freons etc..

 A tank full of gas is basically nothing, alittle pressure but no volume, so it will last only a few minutes maybe depending on what it's used for.


Now in my case of propane, I simply turn the full tank upside down when I connect the full and empty directly to each other and open the valve on both tanks, the liquid flows from one tank to the other, and in this case they do equalize or at least get close. I am not flowing the gas, but I am flowing the liquid.  I also have a neat little adapter I bought that lets me re-fill those little 1 and 2 lb tanks directly from a 20lb tank this same way.


The trick again though, it's a liquid you have to store, not the actaull gas as fumes. You should look into the boiling and freezing points of Methane gas and see what they are if you want to store it in propane tanks. It could be something as simple as just sitting the tank in an old freezer and lowering the temp to around 20F? Maybe you won't even need the compresser, perhaps the low pressure while creating it and a cold bottle liquifing it is all you need besides filtering it very well and cooling as much as possible before it gets to the cold bottle. I don't know the temps, so I don't know if that will work well or not, look into it.


In any case, a gasifier I think would be good for your car or tractor, but not for creating gas to store for latter use.


As for me I keep getting new ideas to re-design the stuff I am building. For instance where I was going to build my charcoal maker below ground level I have decided to move it. I got to thinking, why burn feul to make the charcoal in the first place? Then I have to waste perfectly good heat (lots of it) when I am blacksmithing or melting aluminum for castings. Ok, now my charcoal maker is going to be ABOVE my work area! I have the side of a small hill to work with here. I put the shop for blacksmithing and casting lower than the charcoal oven and then flow the excess heat while working up into the oven. I should be able to keep that oven hot enough to bake charcoal with the heat created while melting aluminum alone. In this case I will not actaully be using any feul to make the charcoal and gas, just using waste heat from some other process instead. And while using that heat baking charcoal, I still have to remove the heat from the gas and charcoal after baking it, so it's still usable for yet another purpose like heating the house eventually.


 Is there a limit to how far a stick of wood can actaully go??

« Last Edit: April 04, 2005, 01:50:15 AM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2005, 02:01:46 AM »
Yes, you can do the same thing as long as you don't over do it. Weight the 30gal barrel so it cannot rise and let it produce a low pressure as it displaces the water.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2005, 02:01:46 AM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2005, 02:05:29 AM »
I dought I would use antifreeze myself.


Depending where a person is at and how bad the winters, just insulate the barrels and use a solar water heater sitting in the sun. As long as the water stays above freezing I dought there would be a problem. If you have bad winters and need alot of heat, just make lots of gas, making the gas should warm the barrels, and you'll probably be using alot then anyway right :)

« Last Edit: April 04, 2005, 02:05:29 AM by nothing to lose »

mikey ny

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2005, 06:13:03 PM »
       I guess a stick of wood will only go as far as you are capable of takin it. The more you get out of it the less work you will have to do to replenish it. So I see there may be some complications to storing the wood gas. I guess i will have to be a little more creative. Where there is a will there is a way. Just how far do i want to go? Tonite i will research the possibilities of storing it as a liquid. IF that becomes too complicated i may just design and build a gasification boiler. They cost about 10 grand to buy. I have most of the stuff i need to build one but i have'nt worked out my design yet. I think i will build it like a water tube type boiler, However, storing the gas as a liquid is my main priority right now, because it could be used for many other purposes other than heating.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2005, 06:13:03 PM by mikey ny »

mikey ny

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2005, 06:29:27 PM »
     Well, that was easier than i thought. Natural gas which is 75% methane becomes a liquid at 260 F below 0. I am pretty sure it would consume much more energy to liquify my home made gas than it would be worth. I did not research any further to investigate what pressure is the best to store it at, maybee i will a little later. I hav'nt given up yet.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2005, 06:29:27 PM by mikey ny »

TERRYWGIPE

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2005, 08:10:46 PM »
As far as the freezinf aspect add salt, salt water freezes at a much lower temp. I have an article from "Backwoodsman mag" about making methane from dog doo, etc. as soon as I can figure out how to post it I'll try. This guy uses 16" truck innertubes to store his swamp gas, said one innertube runs a stove for 1/2 haur a day for a week(3 1/2 hrs)


                          Terry

« Last Edit: April 04, 2005, 08:10:46 PM by TERRYWGIPE »

mikey ny

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2005, 07:39:40 PM »
     with all this talk about gas and how to store it i almost forgot why i was going to do it in the first place. Nope, not just for fun. I want to run my boiler on it to back up my wood boiler. I now i can make a few improvements on my wood boiler system, like adding more water storage etc.etc. So i really only need to burn the wood gas for maybee an hour a day in the early morn. so i don't have to get up too early to re-load. Now there is no doubt that if i want to store the gas it will most definitly be in a gas form. I am still thinking about small propane tanks, since i have a handfull of empty ones from old barbaque grills. So if i draw a vacume on a small propane tank, not too much to implode it, Collect the gas in the  inverted water drum method, connect it to the propane tank and the vacume will draw in the gas. Then i can use the small compressor to compress more gas into the tank, maybee at around 60 psi. If i build a manifold to connect 6 tanks together and into a regulator then to the burner. The tanks should be a pretty safe way to store the gas. Except for the fact that the gas will not have an odor. I suppose i could devise a way to give it an odor. Anyway, that is just the basic idea, for my experiment not including filtering and lots of plumbing. Of course i could aways put more thought to burning waste veg oil in my boiler but since it is outside in my detached garage but keeping it warm could be a challenge.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2005, 07:39:40 PM by mikey ny »

dozer

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2005, 10:31:10 PM »
there is a lot of talk about "methane" in this thread; but to my knowledge, the bulk of "wood gas" is hydrogen and CO (carbon monoxide).  Methane is a pretty small component of it...perhaps 2-5%, depending on type of wood, conditions of gasification, etc..


In any case, I don't understand why you're focusing on pressurizing the gas by pumping air in on it ???


a) that dilutes your fuel...you're wasting storage space


b) it makes it an explosive mixture.


The proper way to do this is to draw the gas through a filter and into a compressor.  The output of the comp. goes right to the tank.


Your thought of using propane tanks is a good one.  They are rated to higher pressure than almost any other commonly available pressure-vessel.


Note that your gas is likely to have some water vapor in it, and propane tanks do not have a water-drain valve on the bottom.  Water will collect in your tank and slowly rust it.  You should be thinking about how you're going to deal with that...


I'd consider the use of wood-gas for a heating boiler as a big waste of time and energy, and fuel-energy too.  The only thing that I use wood-gas for is a diesel gen-set, i.e. something that -needs- a gaseous or liquid fuel.  For heat and hot water, we use solid wood.


notes;  the CO portion of the gas IS a fuel.  You do not want to eliminate it...you want to burn it.


I know of no cheap and easy way to eliminate the nitrogen.  There -are- filters available that will seperate hydrogen from nitrogen, but they are neither cheap nor easy.


you -can- filter out the tars and acids fairly easily with a fairly crude/simple setup; and I highly recommend doing so if you're using the gas to run any kind of engine.  Uncleaned wood-gas will eat up an engine in short order...


good luck with the project!

« Last Edit: April 09, 2005, 10:31:10 PM by dozer »

mikey ny

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2005, 07:28:57 AM »
thanks dozer, I appreciate  your input. I will definitly run the gas through the compressor to eliminate any air. As far as storeing it and using it for heat, I only plan to use it as a backup for wood. This season I may be able to make enough improvements to my present wood heat system so i won't need a backup. I presently use natural gas as a back up. I am also considering waste vege oil as a backup since my wood boiler has an oil burner at one end.  Keeping a large volume of oil warm enough in my detached garage will be a challenge also. Oil is definitly much safer to deal with and easier to store, it would definitly require less work to figure out how to deal with the problems related to oil than with gas. With all the feedback i have recieved here i may change my thoughts and go in another direction, I have to decide soon the clock is ticking.

             
« Last Edit: April 10, 2005, 07:28:57 AM by mikey ny »

sundowner63

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2005, 04:44:47 PM »
I would love to have this .pdf file but the link isn't there for me to click on to.Could I bug you to repost it? I tried searching Google for it but didn't have any success. I want to build one for my cabin to run a small generator. Any info greatly appreciated. Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2005, 04:44:47 PM by sundowner63 »

pyrocasto

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2005, 06:36:59 PM »
That's where you start working on a solar refrigeration system. You can do it using a solar collector, but I'm now sure what the minimum temperature would be.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2005, 06:36:59 PM by pyrocasto »

mikey ny

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2005, 12:16:20 PM »
Hi,

 I ordered a book called Construction of a simplified wood gas generator from The Biomass Evergy Foundation Press. I found it on a site called The Gengas Page. There is a lot of info on wood gas at that site. If that does'nt work try www.woodgas.com or e-mail Tom Reed at tombreed@comcast.net. The Biomass Energy Foundation Press is lacated at 1810 Smith Rd. Golden CO 80401.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2005, 12:16:20 PM by mikey ny »

klaky

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Re: wood gas
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2005, 06:07:28 AM »
Found this board and is very interesting so i joined so i could share a little info i may have.

Excuse my spelling.

One thing i know is a guy that compressed natural gas from a gas well and ran his truck on it for a couple years.

He used old oxagen bottles and he used five of them.

Then he compessed the gas to 2000 psi and he could go about 250 miles before refilling them.

The truck was a dodge full size and full time four wheel drive.

The reason i posted this info is because someone mentioned compressing wood gas.

I know that his did not turn to liquid at 2000 psi.

Hope this helps someone.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2005, 06:07:28 AM by klaky »