Author Topic: Policy Change for This Forum (Read 754 times)

RogerAS · « **on:** March 17, 2008, 11:33:55 PM »

To The Owners & Admins of this forum,

I agree 110% with Tom W's intent in issuing a warning towards the Diary user earlier today. The use of language unbecoming and adult has no place in a public forum, no matter the subject focus. If one feels the need to express extreme emotion there are more refined methods which will still get the job done.

However there needs to be an immediate change made to the instructions on diary use, which I have posted below. As long as the instructions are stated in this way the objections are contradictory and sets a dangerous precedent. Some "contributors" may see this as an open invitation to post the type of objectionable material as seen today. The instructions seem to encourage this sort of thing. A clear and firm policy against the use of foul language should be set forth ASAP.

In my worthless opinion the forum should become exclusively about aspects of renewable energy, and this includes the diary section. This would stop the "myspace" type abuse we have all seen, and not just today. You own this resource, not us users. Take a stand.

I am as guilty of expressing opinion that are not related to RE as anyone, and more so than many, but I feel something needs to be done, and right now.

Please do not ban me for this rant, as this entire posting is intended as a show of support for the owners and administrators. I merely suggest the time has come for Fieldlines to assume its position as the valued WORLD asset it is, and adopt rules which will help resolve such issues before they arise. You cannot make all people happy at all times.

Diaries:

Diaries are for your stuff, whatever you want! New windmills, projects, your house, your spouse, your dog, your political philosophy...They don't have to be related to alternative energy, though most folks who use our board have some sort of solar, wind or hydro project going. You can include photos in your diary, and probably sound bites and video clips too. Go for it!

By posting your message on our board, you are expressly giving us permission to make it available to the public via our board software. It continues to be owned by you, and we will not use it or your photos for any other purpose without your consent. We reserve the right to move and delete postings at any time, without warning to the author. We also reserve the right to ban users from this board, at any time, for any reason.

WXYZCIENCE · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2008, 06:04:19 PM »

Roger, It's the end of the world as we know it!
Joseph

FishbonzWV · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2008, 06:12:10 PM »

Amen Roger,

I had to go look for what you were talking about because I quit reading anything with BMN in the title about his fourth post.

Fishbonz

RogerAS · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2008, 06:23:42 PM »

I have this bad habit of reading everything. :-(

TomW · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2008, 06:28:21 PM »

Roger;

I agree pretty much right down the line.

Nothing I can do. That user is out of line. Nobody else would get away with it. My hands are tied.

Nothing I can do about changing anything. I just get to clean up the mess.

Dan [F or B] must change those pages so maybe if enough noise is created it could maybe happen. I wouldn't hold my breath, however. Change is slow.

Glad to see it is not just me being anal about things. Support is nice.

TomW

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2008, 07:44:45 PM »

I din't think the language was bad, but then I got my own warning from our host a long time ago about my language and I have tried to oblige. I've seen much worse language, all over the 'net. Worse, with no real philosophical ideas wrapped around it. I counted three cuss words in that whole diatribe, two, if you don't count the name of the guy who has two birthdays.

That being said, I do not think it is appropriate for one person to use this website's dairies section as his personal blogging space. Hey Dan, I've been wanting to start a blog, can I do it here too? I put a rebuilt head on the Toyota pickup last week and got some liberatarian ideas I'd like to publish and see what people think.

Kind of a shame that this whole thing has blown up over this one post, because it's probably the most poignant and thought-provoking thing Brian has ever posted in here. The fact that people are up in arms about the language makes me really wonder if it is about two cuss words in six paragraphs or if it isn't about something else.

TomW · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2008, 08:29:02 PM »

VF;

Personal opinion follows...

I think this being his at least 3rd warning on language that that is the major part of it. The "newsletters" are another part of it because they have little to do with furthering RE and mostly looks like shock value "look at me" stuff from here. I stopped WDYASQ from posting similar political Diary entries and he is a real world personal friend so it is NOT like I am picking on Brian.

There have been backchannel complaints from the beginning about these newsletters that are just now starting to surface in public.

There is really no good reason for them to be here at all. It is the wrong place. Period. I actually tend to agree with him more than not but thats not the point.

Even got folks who normally disagree with me with the same opinion. Go figure.

Doesn't matter much what I think. I am working under unfair guidelines on an uneven playing field. I don't have energy to swim upstream on these things so I guess the users need to step up and I think they have.

Any more and I will get into a rant and nobody wants to hear my "non PC" opinion because someones poor feelings will be damaged.

Bottom line is we are on a downward spiral due to our popularity and this BS over being "PC" is really making it hard to keep the forum useful.

OK, I give up. give it to the foul mouthed louts if you want, but cursing is just a sign of a lack of vocabulary and has no place in this forum. Neither does politics, even [especially?] if I agree.

I have drawn the line where I honestly think it should be. Honesty seems to be non PC today but I don't give a Hoover Dam.

Thanks for the feedback.

We can always use help, so if you want to be infected as an editor, I can make it so. It is a bit like vampires that way. It takes one to make one ...

OK, here is where I sign off and the misunderstanding of my post begins...

TomW

Old F · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2008, 08:46:37 PM »

Discussing religion an politics an using foul language should not be aloud any were on this forum.

Now with that said I feel that the Diary should be a place for going projects that may or may not be RE related

The hey what have you be up to how is every one the funny an corny stuff

The stuff some would call the warm an fuzzy. Its the warm an fuzzy that's the glue that helps hold Forums like this together .

Its what keeps the talented an creative folk coming back it keeps boredom an burn out at bay

It's the stuff that keeps the Board fun

If some one should ask are we having fun

We should be able to say heck yea

Were having so much fun it should be illegal

Old F

RogerAS · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2008, 08:51:11 PM »

Volvo,

I have contributed in support of, and giving my advice to, the poster on a previous occasion. This is not personal. My point is that the "myspace" use of the fieldlines resource is something I find just plain wrong. This is why I placed my posting in the rants section. Would an outside link to the same information have been all that hard to do?

The whole world is going to perdition in a wicker basket. Do we need to be reminded so vividly? The reasons are diverse and vast. If there were a simple solution I'm sure someone far more intelligent than I would have acted upon this information already.

This entire position is just a voicing of opinion, and I am attempting to do so with a fair approach and some form of class.

For those of you unfamiliar with my history here I have shown my dark side more than once. Yes, I'm human too. I am not throwing stones from within my glass house. I am merely suggesting it is time for change. The posting today is just an example of why I feel this way.

wiredwrong · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2008, 10:26:01 PM »

"I quit reading anything with BMN in the title"

I too quit reading the BS, I mean BMN post. They rarely have anything to do with what I think the this board is about. (Brian, thats means I don't want to read your newsletter)

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2008, 11:03:00 PM »

Hehe, keep away from me you vampire!

3rd warning is the ticket. I cuss bad on other sites but I was asked specifically not to here so I don't. (Well, I haven't got caught since anyways) :-)

Otherwise we are in agreement. Brian, blog on your own site, Fieldlines diaries is not really the place to put your own everyday daily ramblings on the 'net. I like DanB, I like Brian, but this odd friendship has grown too far. I feel grateful to have been introduced to Brian through this site, but I feel overwhelmed by his constant off-topic presence here.

So Brian, if you're listening... With respect, take your blog/newsletter thing back into your own domain. Some of us will check in from time to time and see what you're up to.

If you get a turbine in the air or a few hundred watts of solar down your pipeline, feel free to share in your accomplishment here, where the focus is making your own electricity from scratch.

Take care

-Farmer of evergrowing Volvos

zeusmorg · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2008, 12:57:21 AM »

My opinion is this site should be about RE and the rural/urban living it pertains to.

The only way i could see any sort of politics(or religion for that matter) discussed here, EVEN in a diary should be if it DIRECTLY pertains to RE or rural living.

Anyone can start a diatribe or a rant that is uninformed and type away endlessly without really doing anything and even claiming that they do..(not really pointing fingers) ..I just don't feel that this is the place for it. People don't start coming here to learn the situation of banking, or for that matter what's in george bush's closet!

So I vote for bringing this site back to what it was intended for, RE saving the planet in our own insignificant ways, and leave stupid opinions of why lawyers should all be banned to antartica....

(I so had to restrain myself in this and my earlier post to boss's diary)

So I vote for tighter restrictions of ALL content on the site.

ETech · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2008, 01:25:35 AM »

I have been reading all of your wonderful post for the last 6 - 9 months.

Althought I do not live in an area where I can take full advantage of wind power, I enjoy the technical challanges. I learn somthing new from almost every post.

The locked posts can teach one to think about what your looking for before writting.

As a first time post, I really don't have as much invested as the rest of you great posters. I do have an objective view of the trends that I have been observing. The diary posts of construction appears to provide a great learning tool. Both in the analysis of failures or disapointments and the sharing of how an a problem was resolved. As Old F, said even the wimsical projects are nice to see to liven things up.

I think that everone new or old would agree that this board is no the right place for politics or profanity.

I think the only exception would be if someone was looking for support on law promoting alternate energy production.

Boss's news letter seem to skirt around RE and power subjects, as such, I saw it as light entertainment.

That last post was not some thing I would ever want to read again. Not this great site, just Boss's posts.

Sorry, that my first post has nothing to do with power, I was hoping to be more helpful on the solid state stuff.

Etech (robert)

watermanhfl · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2008, 04:56:48 AM »

Hi all,

I agree with much of what was said.

Keep it clean and Keep it about RE.

This is a great, pertinant site and a daily read for me. Let's keep it on topic to maximize our collective knowledge. I want to learn about RE sujects and not others.

Tks for a wounderful resource.

Stonebrain · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2008, 06:51:44 AM »

Yea,

this guy started talking about web sites,and he need a loooot of money to build his shop.He hopes to find financial contributors....

I just say this because too many people lost precious time reading that garbage.

cheers,

stonebrain

blueyonder · « **Reply #15 on:** March 18, 2008, 07:00:28 AM »

i dont understand a lot about ohms law. faradays law.

i will try learn. but i do understand TOMS LAW.

YOU NEED BACK UP TOM. well im sure everyone will back you up here .

im onlay a newbie . but i understand that the diary section is just not right for

cussing off about the worlds problems.

helping to solve it with re is the only tool to use on this forum .

best thing to do with a mad dog is to shoot it.

ps i am a dog lover.

wooferhound · « **Reply #16 on:** March 18, 2008, 07:16:28 AM »

I agree that the newsletters are too off topic for this forum at a time when we are trying to make the content better.

My most recent complaint is the 120k bytes picture that he uses as his sig

clflyguy · « **Reply #17 on:** March 18, 2008, 07:53:07 AM »

Well...

After reading all the comments so far, what I'm about to say will no doubt

be wildly unpopular to the self righteous and easily offended. The diary rules that

are in place probably had some deeper thought behind them than some may think. Yes, this is an RE sight, but the diary section rules have been made deliberately

broad in their acceptance of other topics, purposefully so I imagine.

A diary, by its very nature is a place where personal insights and feelings are

recorded, and as such are not accountable to the critiquing of anyone other than

the diaries owner.

As far as the mild expletives invoked in that passage are concerned, they are in

such common usage as to be passe' to most sixth graders in this country. Is that a

bad thing? Probably, but it is as it is.

Folks, we really need to keep a concept in mind here, and that is that

if something offends your moral, political, religious, or ethical beliefs, you are

not being forced to read it. As in radio or television, if you don't like what's on,

then change the station. If things get REALLY out of hand, please do not forget

that our gracious hosts also have...

"We reserve the right to move and delete postings at any time, without warning to

the author. We also reserve the right to ban users from this board, at any time, for

any reason".

This seems to be a workable methodology already in place for the folks that actually make the rules.

I will admit that occasionally Brian's stuff is somewhat like a train wreck. You can't bear to see it but you can't stop yourself from looking. Maybe that's because it gives you some insight to his life which you will, as all humans do, compare to your own. -Gus

Hoskald · « **Reply #18 on:** March 18, 2008, 08:00:34 AM »

For what it's worth, I completely agree with Roger and Tom on this one...Keep it Clean and RE...the Dairies are the place to chronicle your projects that relate somehow to RE, Fieldlines is not Blogger!

BMN, if you feel the need to blog, add WordPress to your domain and have at it! I have two blogs, one related to politics that you will find not one link to on this site as it's the wrong place for such things. If you need help in setting it up, give me a shout.

Fieldlines is too valuable a resource to be allowed to be brought down to the lowest common denominator!

TomW · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2008, 08:15:46 AM »

cfl;

Let me get this perfectly clear.

There are 10,000+ of "us" and, apparently one or two "you" that find it acceptable.

The 10,000+ of "us" are expected to alter our opinions to coddle one trouble maker?

I find that ludicrous.

Just because foul language is heard on your TV and in your environment the rest of us are required to hear and see it?

Thats plain stupid.

Thats all I can say without damaging your fragile ego.

T

WindHarvester · « **Reply #20 on:** March 18, 2008, 08:43:27 AM »

TomW,

Lets not forget it's not your website and DanB and DanF have yet to chime in, until they do I think your bickering and insults are getting in the way and have no business here!

Lonnie

clflyguy · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2008, 08:44:47 AM »

Tom, the ego is fine hoss, so fire away. The diary rules need to be accepted for

what they are, which, much to the chagrin of a vocal few (not 10,000) means that

Brian's seemingly unpopular commentary was put into the correct area of this

wonderful board. Lash out as you wish, I'm done.

Cloaked User · « **Reply #22 on:** March 18, 2008, 10:10:52 AM »

I agree, Tom. This "boss" appears to be just another overgrown troll. If I wanted to read such "newsletters," they are easy to find. Choking the Internets, even. They might even rival bad videos of drunken celebrities for wasted bandwidth.

david anderson · « **Reply #23 on:** March 18, 2008, 11:47:13 AM »

There are actually very good reasons for allowing some off-topic posting, community building is the biggest one. Don't you want to be able to brag to your RE friends that you have made here, about you new granddaughter or that 60 pound salmon you caught?

What I have done on my sites is to allow off-topic blog posts from regular on-topic contributors. You can't get away with wholesale spamming, political ranting or making it your regular personal blog, but you can post about personal things that would be of interest to those that share the site. The general guidelines are there, but I am the sole arbiter of what stays and what goes.

And one other thing to be considered, AdSense. If they allow just any old offensive garbage in the diaries, such as "adult" language, google is likely to pull the plug. Advertisers don't like their ads being associated with certain types of content, so it is up to webmasters to police what is posted. The rules change when you sing up with AdSense.

icicle · « **Reply #24 on:** March 18, 2008, 11:49:49 AM »

I agree with all of you guys on this, Even I use foul langage often I try to keep it off the board and out my diary

It is a shame for all the good apples the one bad one has to ruin the whole bag.

if you must use it take it to another form or just leave it out and to yourself.

God I would love to be a Moderator on here.

althou the current ones are doing a good job there should be more.

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #25 on:** March 18, 2008, 12:02:08 PM »

I actually think you have a point. I made the same mistake in my thinking a while back. I thought this place would be better with a change of software that would allow people to express themselves with pictures and avatars, maybe make an off-topic area for us to blow off steam. I think that is not the intention here, the intention seems to be to discuss RE related stuff and electricity made from scratch.

Personally I think it makes it a little soulless in here, because we miss out on the opportunity to get to know our fellow board members in any other respect than RE discussions. However, I have come to believe that the owners of this board want it that way. It certainly remains a good, if not the best resource for this information on the web.

Still, do you think that posting a new diary entry every day, much as one would do in a blog is an acceptable use of this area of the board? What if forty or fifty folks started waking up in the morning, pounded out a few paragraphs and posted them in Diaries?

fungus · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2008, 12:06:16 PM »

.. Also, his blogs are already on his site and easy to see for anyone ( http://outfitnm.com/ ) yet are -still- posted every day here .. still there for anyone who wants them.

TomW · « **Reply #27 on:** March 18, 2008, 12:07:18 PM »

david;

What I have done on my sites is to allow off-topic blog posts from regular on-topic contributors.

I agree. Look at this users history of posts. He doesn't qualify under those terms. It is pretty much all this political diatribe. Even used "come on" titles that sounded "RE" but it was just the hook.

Anyway, I can't expend energy on this today, with this flu I got, I would have to improve to die.

Another point that seems lost is that DanB gave me responsibility to "police" this place and I do that the best I can. He tends to have a hands off attitude because he seems allergic to confrontation.

It seems that if he cared he would comment?

Anyway, back inside for a shower see if I can drown myself quietly.

TomW

Bruce S · « **Reply #28 on:** March 18, 2008, 01:19:56 PM »

To the owners of this wonderful resource;

It is possible that I hold this site higher regard that ALL the others I visit, but that would be do to its huge value that it has become.

Over the few years that I have been here, I have pointed a great number of people to this site, if for no other reason than to get a real-time pulse on what real people are doing. Those people range from the technicians that maintain 480V UPS' with enough energy storage to keep a 3 floor building operation for 3 hours, down to children and their parents from around my neighborhood.

ALL:

I will -out- my self, I have mildly complained about BOSS' "newsletter" more than once. Several of them I read as mindless ramblings, and as the man says "if you don't like it change the channel". Easy enough, I merely click on the diary and close it back up "done".

Language: Certainly there are much worse out their , but why should it be continued? much less allowed here?

The "words" used weren't even that bad , of course, and when used correctly they aren't even considered foul language. BUT they weren't used correctly according the any dictionaries I subscribe to.

Diaries:

I don't own this site therefore the rules setup are not mine to question. I have opinions but that matter no more and no less than anyone else's.

As a parent it is my responsibility to look out for my children, and I do, other might not but I do. Even the ones that have already grown and moved away, it's what makes us family.

Perhaps that it why I would like to even see the posts with foul language deleted, no questions asked. IF I do it lock me, other the the owners who pay the bills and keep this site up, no one is better than the next.

Bruce S

electrondady1 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 18, 2008, 01:33:18 PM »

don't want the truth to get in the way of a good story.

i figure Bozz is blackmailing danb.

maybe something to do with Dan's alcohol fuel model "A" rig.

might be wrong.

JW · « **Reply #30 on:** March 18, 2008, 04:23:10 PM »

Rodger, (gawd I hope I spelled that right : )

I think that you did the right thing...

Yes, yes it was me, who gave the, ahhhh, Brian your acting like a JCP, first warning.

And I have yet to hear from Projector ever again, here on the board since, which troubles me slightly.

DanB did step-in, to state BOSS/Brian is a doer. But Dan never once said, that the guy had card-blanch here on the board.

Perhaps Brian has a compulsive disorder, not that I think thats bad, but I have been called worst things by Fin[like totally crazy] but hey theres always a hurricane that can hit miami, and knock out the power to the whole state[like happened a coupla weeks ago] and make us all laugh...

I agree more with Tom,

"I think this being his at least 3rd warning on language that that is the major part of it. The "newsletters" are another part of it because they have little to do with furthering RE and mostly looks like shock value "look at me" stuff from here."

'because they have little to do with furthering RE and mostly looks like shock value "look at me" stuff from here.'

It is important to note that 'all these warnings' technically came from valid User's like Tom.

So if ADMIN, does nothing about this, I think it is 'okay'.

Crack's open a fresh brew-sky

Cheer's ALL

JW

vawtman · « **Reply #31 on:** March 18, 2008, 05:06:33 PM »

Lets all get back to our projects now.I just don't comment pretty simple.

The more attention these type postings get the more they post.

Mark

RogerAS · « **Reply #32 on:** March 18, 2008, 07:04:11 PM »

JW,

It's Roger, but I have no issue with what you call me, just don't call me late for dinner! :-)

Oh, it's ok with me too. I just see this site as one of the most important resources in the entire world for RE. I hate to see it descend into a myspace for whatever.

I've had my say, let's move on.

Roger

News:

Author Topic: Policy Change for This Forum (Read 754 times)