10 foot Axial Mill From Flat Plate 3

[brianc4]

Here is the photo I had trouble uploading in part 2. It shows the magnet rotors with the cooling fins assembled on the spindle. As I stated in part 2 I dont really know if the cooling fins are worth the trouble or wheather the may mess up the magnets flux but I am going to find out!

Here is a picture of the magnets epoxied down. I used 2 ton devcon slow set epoxy to glue the magnets down. You will notice the streaks from the edge of the plate in because I went ahead & epoxied the backs of the magnets before placing them on the rotor & then ran a bead around the edges of the magnets. Kind of a messy bussiness but since I dont plan on potting the magnets in resin I felt that getting epoxy completely under the magnets was worth it.Some Meythel Eythel Keytone cleaned Me and the jig plate up but WHEW thats some wicked solvent!!

Here I am double checking the pole arangement on the rotors. The pole checker was $24.95 from applied magnetics & I figured my fingers were worth way more than that. notice the red led it lit indicating north pole. The tester also has 2 different audible tones as well.

Green for south pole.

Here I am getting ready to coat the magnet rotors with Glyptal enamel.

Here is the first coat of Glyptal on the front of the rotors. I put 2 coats front & back on both rotors & with a 2 hour wait in between coats as the manufacurer instructed it took most of the day! You can bake the Gylptal on at 135 deg. Celcius for two hours but the devcon epoxy is only good to 200 deg. farenheit I figured I better not push My luck! The manufacturer said that air dry was acceptable for most applications. If anyone has used this product and has any tips please let Me know.

Thats My progress for now. Hopefully as I am posting this My Wife is finishing boring the DOM tubing for the tail boom pivot. She is the machinist in the familly I just make alot of sparks. I got a couple of bronze bushings for the tail pivot & plan on putting a grease cert on the pivot as well every little bit of wear & tear you can eliminate is a good thing.

My next step will be to wind a test coil and place it in between the rotors for a voltage test. I will need some help with this. But Ill get going for now and put my questions in a later post.

Once again thanks to everyone for thier help & I hope you enjoy my posts about this project.

Brian Clark

[Flux]

"the Gylptal on at 135 deg. Celcius for two hours but the devcon epoxy is only good to 200 deg. farenheit"

How about giving the magnets a thought, 135C would see them off quite nicely.

The only Glyptal product I met was an anti-tracking varnish for motor insulation, it probably does have reasonable other protection properties. Not sure if you have the same thing but the stoving temperature makes me think it may be the same stuff. It does air dry ok, many repaired machines got their final coating during transport back after urgent repairs.

Flux

[tecker]

 Once the coils are cast no amount of cooling will keep the heat down it has to be a factor of the wire size. You can be 90 % sure the heat is under control by useing the right wire size for the power  extracted from the stator . Vinyl or polyester starts to loose rigidity at 225 F urethane epoxy can be heat hardened but will warp with heat .

[tecker]

Very nice work I don't know the reason for the long spindle but it looks cool . Nice workmanship.

[oztules]

It looks to be coming together very nicely.

The cooling may well have been better tackled by moving the magnets almost to the edge of the disk, rather than the fins (or as well as).

This would allow more winding space for thicker wire. You have the extra real estate, and it would have made a big difference in stator resistance, which would have gone a long way towards less heat generation.

looking forward to the rest of the project.

......oztules

[wooferhound]

Just a couple of comments about Forum Politeness.

Your Projects are normally put in Your Diary Section.

No Need for multiple posts if you can't get the picture in the Original Post,

Just add your own comments and include the missing pictures there.

[MattM]

Are you putting relief cuts for airflow in the stator and rear rotor?  As the air heats up the nature expansion of gases will probably move more air through the rotors than that from the actual fins.  You have the basic premise of a centrifugal turbojet in your layout if the air has some kind of relief through the center of your stator and rear rotor.  You could probably increase positive airflow if the rotors were covered by ductwork.

At the least the fins do add a nice touch of class to your project!

[jmk]

 I remember working with m -e -k in the service. It takes the oil right out of the skin and makes it white.

[wdyasq]

Brian,

It is better to allow the epoxy to cure and scrape it off the skin than drive it into the bloodstream  with a harsh solvent.

MAS epoxies, while still active, can be cleaned with vinegar.

You don't want to get synthesized to epoxy.

Ron

[DanG]

I used Glyptal on 750VDC equipment and have seen it used a thousand different ways - and got to see it time tested over 10-years plus... Glyptal rocks.

The most important thing is to keep cross-contamination down. Xylene is required solvent with toluene the second choice - just a few drops of mineral (white) spirits or Stoddard solvent will prevent rock-hard & glassy cure, even dipping a brush still damp with cleaner will change the whole batch. Pour smaller cans or jars worth and keep the main container safe. Applying a forever paint on that reveals a soft porous surface some months down the line can get ugly.

If you allow a small can of glyptal to sit with lid ajar for a few days (weeks?) it thickens into about the best surface coating you could ever want - easy to apply in a thick single layer to fill voids or cracks and will still set up very hard. They distribute 1201B as a higher viscosity version that gets used on commutators and brush holders, etc. and resists runs but I've seen keeping a large part rotating during initial air drying makes a perfect application (500lb armatures).

There really is no alternative to oven-curing - if placed in a drying oven it can achieve a tough glassy finish that will resist most impact damage from shipping loose parts together or assembly marring. Applying it to sun-warmed parts and placing in a draft free box might be very good for a passive adjunct process.

I have a case of aerosol 1201 that I got very cheaply that will come in handy someday I am sure...

Let me think on it a few more days and if anything else note-worthy arises I will re-post - but in the mean time you got any other questions?

[brianc4]

DanG,

Thanks for the input on the Glyptal. I did a fair amount of research before choosing it and like you said is seems to be great for lots of applications.

It was a good sunny day when I applied the Glyptal & I even prewarmed the rotors as well, it seems to have air cured very nicely.

Am I understanding  your post correctly that I should not apply any other paint for a final finish? I plan on painting the mill with silver hammertone paint from Rustoleum. Should I leave the rotors unpainted?

Thanks: Brian Clark

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

Moving the magnets out also increases the linear velocity of the magnets past the coils at a given RPM.  Another win.  You want the magnets out as far as you can get them.

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

There really is no alternative to oven-curing - if placed in a drying oven it can achieve a tough glassy finish that will resist most impact damage from shipping loose parts together or assembly marring. Applying it to sun-warmed parts and placing in a draft free box might be very good for a passive adjunct process.

Just be careful not to overheat the magnets.  It's no good to have a perfect finish but a weak or missing magnetic field.  B-(

[JW]

Mick-Mac Mick-mac, Wolf,

 Brian,

You have done a fine job with your postings... Its really no suprise that TomW has given you'th the card'blan'chif...

 Personaly, if your not the (chief)machinest and your wife is, then well, you have done quite well for your-self.

 I talk to my own wife, about this stuff, and I get a bunch of deer-in-the-headlights(look), if you know what I mean.

 I applaud you efforts...

To me, its about as good as an episode of 'how its made' on 'discovory channel'(soon to be 'green planet', by the way).

 However,

Wolf makes a good point. You are about to enter a 'zone' with winding coils that your most certianly going to halve-too go back and forth a little-bit.

 After-all you stated your about to build a coil winder.  Now look, Flux is your best bet in getting info about how to wind your coils. What you seid last about going into a 'test coil winding phase' confirms all of our most worst night-mares.

 You do have 24magnets with alternating pole bias within 2 planes with the dual rotor configuration, this makes us feel better. So each 12 magnet rotor will face an N-S within the indexed attraction for each rotor facing proximity.

 It is unlikely, but possible, but unlikely that you have figured all this out for yourself, but again its possible...

Now looky here DanB is a serious dude. Last I heard he was subing out to a water-jet guy.

Im assuming you figured out the 80% html tag line thingy, Because your pic's are great.

One thing you have not mentioned, is your load use, and batt-bank capacity in watt-hours.

 This will become extremily critical as you figure, cut in speed for your wind area, average winds, and how many days you need to charge your battery's from draw-down, like what you'd see from a load test of your intended batt-bank capacity. On the otherhand, im sure the critical info that you ask for will be tracked no matter where you post on the board, diary section for example. Also it has happened on rare occasion that Flux's diary posting's have made it to the front page. So what wolf is tring to say is not bad in anyway. But he was in a Russian cab, visiting his daugthers in Russia when that picture was taken. I think.

 Now looky here, Dan has never called me Dead Wrong about any technical specs before (thank god) But he has stated this to me, about how I may percive other user's here. Just remember, alot of these guys are basically a PHD in this stuff, but you never really know who is who. AS ALWAYS

 CAVE-EAT EMPTOR-

JW

[DanG]

No intention of baking neo magnets - the question and answer was Glyptal tips only.

It makes a great primer after several days or a week air dry. Just be careful if you prep sand to not wear through at the edges of the rotors or any other sharp corner, I have seen corrosion undercut the baked glyptal finish from a sharp edge getting chipped... all paint loves rounded (radiused) corners.

Still thinking about any other tips or tricks... : )

[JW]

Wolf:

 I totally agree with expanding the FAQ section.

However, in this situation we have an individual who has all the metal-work under-control.

 For example I'd be willing to bet Brian has never seen DanCad... Like this-

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/9/11/84741/6758

 perhaps, anticipating needs by referencing an FAQ-link, would be more effective than making more FAQ's.

 Best

JW

[JW]

Hi Brian,

"That being said lets get on topic. I really appreciate all of the engineering information posted about the 10' axial flux machines on this site & have seen some wonderfull creations constructed from tubing. However I wanted to take advantage of of the speed & accuracy of my plasma cutter. So using all of the great information presented on this site I converted the construction of the mill to a flat plate design. -Brian"

I did do a search for-

' 10' axial flux machines '

It yeilded no-results.

Then, I did a search for-' 10 footer ' as the keyword and picked this link, from the list.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/3/25/201213/677

Next, I did a search for- '10 footer's' as the keyword and picked this link, from that list.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/12/12/22246/074

Granted there are many more links to pick from,on each list, I just wanted to say change your search criteria, a little. It will help.

Best

Jeremy

[brianc4]

JW,

Thanks for the nice comments.

I can run a lathe or mill or about any other machine tool but I would rather have a root canal!

My wife really enjoys machine work and is very good at it. So whenever possible I have her do that type of work at her shop. She also does sheet metal work that is trully amazing! English Wheel, Planishing Hammer, Hammer Forms, Finger Brake, She is good with them all. She also makes some amazing jewelery from copper, gold, silver, pearls, emeralds etc. She can also weld the broke spindle on your hay baler or put a new beater bar in your menure spreader but We are both trying to get away from that type of work!

I do consider Myself very lucky to have a partner like my wife! A project is much more enjoyable when you can share it with someone who has similar interests.

As far as the photos go, I just followed the guidelines on the site & fortunatly have a photo filter program that will batch out pictures to a set display size & file size.

I did't realize that the diary area was where I should be posting projects. This is the first foum I have ever posted on & all future progress on the project I will post there. I should have the tail & boom finished today. That is if I dont get covered up with customer's projects.

As for the north south magnet pairs I do realize how the rotors are set up but you are right about not figuring it out for myself, again I just read & followed instructions & examples posted on this site.

When I mentioned winding test coils I am refering to winding 1 coil to place in-between the rotors to check output of a single coil run it thru the math I have seen posted here. Again just following instructions.  ( Desired rectified dc output voltage divided by 1.73 = volts per phase divided by number of coils = individual coil voltage. Appx. 36 turns per coil of 14ga. wire doubled or 11 ga.single wire for a 12v alternator)Someone please correct me if I am wrong!

I am sure I will have a ton of questions and I do realize there are folks on this site that can be a great help to answering these questions, Thats why Im here.

I always run a search on the site to see if any of my questions have already been asked and I do study the infomation I find carefully & try to figure out as much as I can on my own so I don't have to bother anyone. I find that I retain & understand information much better when I can figure it out Myself. But you can be certain that if I cant figure it out I am not shy to ask for help! I am ignorant about alot of things but I try not to be stupid about anything!

I will get a post ready with battery bank capacity, expected usage, coil wire size etc. Thanks to this site I do understand some of the basic concepts but it is my first experience with building an alternator so I need all the help I can get!

Thanks:Brian Clark

[TomW]

Brian;

You are one lucky man!

My wife is a great woman [puts up with me] but she couldn't fix a loose bolt and her eyes glaze over when I talk about turbines, solar, etc.

Behind me 100% but just not interested in the nuts and bolts.

Tom