Treadmill Motors

[velacreations]

I am looking at the 2.25 HP Treadmill motors for $9.99 at surplus center.  These are the 260 VDC, 5 amp, 5100 rpm motors.  Has anyone done any testingwith these?  What kind of amps do you get?  The voltage on these are not a problem, as they seem to be a bit better than Ametek on that front.  I am wondering about the amps, though.

I did see that surplus center also had the 2.5 HP 130 VDC 6750 RPM MOTOR  for $19.99, which has a lot more amp capacity, but a bit higher rpm.

Which is better for wind gen?

I am achieving 400 - 800 rpm no problem with my home-made PVC blades, so I am trying to find a suitable motor solution.  The 40 and 30 VDC Ameteks are not good enough for me, as you don't see much more than a few amps (max is like 4 I think) out of them.

Also, is there a way to convert extra volts into amps?  Like with something that puts out 20 volts, with 2 amps gives you 40 watts, but I only need a max of 14.5 volts, so can I grab a little more amperage somehow?

Abe

[ghurd]

Hi Abe,

The 2.25hp, 5 ohm coils, the bearings are a little sloppy so the shaft moves in and out some quite freely, and it could use a little extra iron around the body to keep the magnetic field in a little better.  

The brushes are not externally changable.

The bearings are probably not designed for stress the direction a blade will apply it, maybe it would be better for a hydro setup?

I'm not sure how long it will last, it just doesn't look and feel heavy duty.

Seems like a good beginner motor, or fun to play with.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/3/23/225230/317

FYI  Shipping is more than the motor costs.

The 2.5hp motor needs about 800 RPM to get 14.5V.  I would not bother with it.

G-

[Norm]

    I guess Ghurd about covered it all...it does

make a nice little beginners motor ...but you've

already got that in the Ameteks.

     Ideally if these motors would generate just

as much as they use at the specified rpms....

5amps and 250 volts at 5000 rpm. now divide that all by 5 and you get (roughly)...1 amp and 50 volts at 1000 rpm.

     They're fun but the best and easiest way is

to convert an induction motor.

                ( :>) Norm.  

[velacreations]

Well,

Jerry has had nice results with the 2.5 HP, 130 Volt, 3250 rpm motors, so if I could find a decent supply, they would really beat the Ameteks.

I am trying to avoid making coils and assembling magnets at this point, as we are making a lot of machines for people in Mexico.  We just installed an Ametek system last weekend, and it was really awesome.

I am trying to find an easily assembled solution that we can provide as a starter system and THEN help them develop more efficient and advanced power systems.

Thanks for the comments,

Abe

[ghurd]

Abe,

The 2.5hp 130v 6750rpm motor needs at least 4 times the same RPM to get 14.5v

The 2.25 260v 5100rpm motor would be great for your purpose if it was a little better made.

The 130v 6750rpm needs 52rpm per volt (rpm/v). 6750/130=52

The 260v 5100rpm needs 20rpm per volt. 5100/260=20

So the 5100rpm motor needs to go 2.5X faster before it even reaches 14.5v.

That means blade losses, etc.

Jerry's 2.5hp 130v 3250rpm is 25rpm per volt.  3250/130=25

But his voltage was lower for the same HP, so the resistance of the coils was lower.

So his power used up, or wasted, moving that power in the coils was much less, and more power got to the battery. Compared to the surplus motors.

Similar designs can all 'make the same amount of power', but how much power they use moving that power to the battery will tell if they are worth the effort.

I recently finished a conversion that makes 12v very easy. But at 0.1 amps well over half the power it makes is lost in the motor due to high resistance.

For your purpose the Ameteks are probably the best way to go.

Or a conversion. add good (neo) magnets from Otherpower to an induction motor.

No brushes, low resistance,  heavy parts, quite easy and cheap.

I believe Jerry still prefers the conversions.

[velacreations]

Yeah, I supposed I am going to have to at least play with it.  The thing is, if I am going to do a conversion, I'd rather make the thing from scratch and get some real power out of it, similar to the brake disk design.

We don't have very many tools and buying a lathe is out of the question, really.  I would really love a simple designt hat anyone can put together, and with the ameteks, we have this, but the output is really not very reasonable.  We see 20 volts + with the 30 VDC ameteks, but the most amps I have ever seen is 3 (going into a 12.4 vol battery bank), so that is like 36 watts or so.  Even then, they are cheap and fast, so I guess we are stuck with that.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Abe

[nvmike]

I am getting .5 amps 20 volts (open circut), had a gust of wind and got 40 volts and .5 amps.  Fun to play with but will give up and try an induction conversion next.  Also working on dual rotor with ceramic magnets, not working well.  After months on this board, I am now convinced the only way to go is dual rotor, good magnets like most of the serious builders are doing.  I have learned a lot from this board and will continue with my building.  Thanks for all the good ideas.

Mike

[ghurd]

A lathe is not really needed.

Hiker just used a hacksaw to make the motor rotor almost square and glued on the magnets. It would take care, but not a lathe. Hiker would probably have better results with better magnets in that one.  Search "Maytag"

What I like is that everything but the magnets is there. The wire, bearings, housing. Seperating and re assigning the coils is not hard.

Old motors can be free or very cheap. A major error doesn't cost much.

[nothing to lose]

I agree!

I get motors here from a salvage yard for 14 cents lb. Maybe I paid $3-$4 for a motor I fly now.

This motor makes power, all I did was take out the armature and use a sawzall to cut 4 flat sides and put 4 round Neos on it, put it back in and I get power

I consider this to be a very bad job that I did, cuts are not very flat or even, magnets were not mounted very well (I expected to take them back out), large air gap because of large round neos (about 1 3/4"-2" round), etc.. But it is working pretty good anyway.

Total cost, maybe $4 for motor, about $4 each for the magnets, total $18!

 I cut the currant blades from a 35gal plastic barrel that cost me $6 and I can make more sets from same barrel so maybe $2 for the blades.

I am very happy with my $20 wind gennie

Since this was my first working gennie I let it fly as is only changing the blades often trying new things. Had I done a better job and used the correct type magnets I am certain I would get much more power. This is a hack job, and it worked anyway.

You can do the same thing with a hacksaw and the right motors and magnets. Probably a much better job on your first try than this one I fly. I really chopped this thing up. Bad working conditions, in a hurry, not even a decent vise to hold it in as I cut it.

 I had taken 3 armatures into machine shops to have them done before I built this one, each one was ruined at the shops. One would lock up when installed in the motor, I think they bent the shaft, and other problems with the others. That's why I hacked up the one that works myself, I was desperate to build someting that would fly, and it works too.

I think Jerry said he liked 110V 1 HP motors the best and posibly not need wires messed with, not sure. Mine is a 220/440 motor at 1/4 hp and I did nothing to the wires inside it.

 I have an exact same motor I am saving for other magnets and will do a better job on it, see what it does compared to this one, then rebuild this one.

Look for decent heavy motors from equipment, old banding machines, air compressors, shop machines etc.. need not be large just built well type heavy. I know Jerry likes the 1hp garbage disposel motors pretty well as I recall. I have not got to do one of those yet though.

 I think motor conversions are probably the fastest, easiest, and cheapest to do. They will make power if done right, maybe not always as much as the daul rotor types, but far cheaper. And I think some of Jerry's have gotton pretty close to some dual rotors maybe.

I plan to build both types, allot of motors because they are so cheap, small, and fairly light. Some dual rotors because they look like fun and make allot of power, but cost allot also. And they look cool too.

[nothing to lose]

"Total cost, maybe $4 for motor, about $4 each for the magnets, total $18!"

OOps. Bad math, should be $20 for motor and magnets, plus $2 for blades, my $22 gennie

[velacreations]

Which motor are your talking about with adding the magnets?

[nothing to lose]

Just about any AC motors like I said. If they are decent motors like 1/4hp and above and small enough to mount in the air. Basically the more HP and lower speed plus rated at more amps,  I think they should make more power.

Heres a link with pics of a test mill I made. This one works fairly well for such a bad hack job, it's a 1/4 motor off some banding type machine from a factory, the cart had 3 motors, 2 were 1/4hp and the other 1/2hp. Got the whole thing cart, motors, switches, other parts for $20 from the scrap yard.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/12/14/131312/72

Does not have much info about the motor itself, some pics and story how bad I first set it up though. When I connected a load it works. It still fly's, been moved around alot and lot's of different blades been put on it. Basically still the same crappy mounting system and tail. This is not nearly as powerfull as the better ones other people here have built.

1/4hp 3phase, 1.4amp@220V motor, about 1680rpm? 4 pole. is what the motor is up on the pole I think.

Heres a link that may have info from others that might help you too, it's when I first built this one back in Dec last year. I had a few problems to get figured out, but it works now.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/12/11/131610/04

Basically if this bad little job I did here works, then imagine what a good job on one will do.

Currantly I am trying to get some better magnets so I have been collecting motors and not doing much with them. I have trouble seeing the wires inside also so I am not trying much with moving around coil connections and stuff, that would help alot also.

Look for posts by Jerry, Hiker, Zubbly, etc.. for motor conversions, many have been done well. Much better than any I have done, which is why I don't post much of what I have tried or done, same as others but not as good as theirs. And I don't have a decent camera most of the time either.

[windmill steve]

Don't listen to the nay-sayers. The motors are cool. They may not last a real long time, but since you are spinning them at a fraction of their design speed of 5,000 rpm, they should last a while. And they are cheap enough to put up another one when one grinds to a halt. I live on a boat in Honolulu Hawaii and just built two windmills using the motors. One has a 4 foot two blade prop, and the other has a 5 foot three blader. The 3 blader starts spinning sooner, but doesn't go any faster at charging speed even given its head start. Both put out 1/2 amp 12 volt charging at 9 1/2mph wind, 1 amp at 11mph, 3 amp at 15mph, 5 amp at 22mph, and 8 amps at 28 mph, with an estimated 10 amps at 35mph. (haven't had any 30mph winds yet). If you are going to get a big blow of 35mph or over winds, just shut it down. The motor doesn't get warm at 8 amp output so my guess is it will do 10 amps fine, even though it is rated as a 5 amp machine. Carve your blades to spin counter clock-wise and bolt them to the big cast flywheel, that way they tighten themselves as they spin.

They are not high power, but are so cheap, if you want more power, just build another one, or hook two or three together for 2 to 3 times the amps! I get enough power to run a small TV and a florecent light and a radio.