Author Topic: Anyone using this PM Generator? (Read 7250 times)

wind4Reg · « **on:** October 04, 2005, 03:13:32 PM »

Hi I found this PM Generator on the web:

http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/manta.html

It is supposed to be a 6000Watt low RPM generator. They have a RPM/Power curve on the website. I was wondering if anyone on fieldlines had one or can speak to the performance of this unit. For those of you who are experienced with alternators and generators, does this power output look probable?

Reg.

wind4Reg · « **Reply #1 on:** October 04, 2005, 09:17:28 AM »

I forgot to mention, notice the weight and size:

Weighs 22 lbs. / Dimensions - 8"X 9"X 9"

Seems pretty small for that much power, but I am no expert.

Reg

wooferhound · « **Reply #2 on:** October 04, 2005, 09:33:34 AM »

The website says . . .

"Designed to be directly mounted on 12 to 16 foot in diameter wind turbine propellers".

But they did'nt design a way to mount it to anything ?

bob g · « **Reply #3 on:** October 04, 2005, 09:37:04 AM »

as the old adage goes:

"if it sounds too good to be true, it probably ain't true"

this is not to say you can't hot rod an alternator, either with neo's on the rotor or by bypassing the regulator, and full fielding the rotor, and spinning the hell out of it.

but there are problems with this approach,

if it is truely a low rpm unit that produces some serious power, then cooling will certainly become an issue. burn ups are certain.
6000 watts is something on the order of 8 hp of needed input theoretically and likely well over 10 hp in reality to support. you are talking serious torque at lower rpms, and the transmission of such power becomes a problem, along with the brgs, shaft and pulley in the little alternator.

considering these examples i find the claim suspect, i really think what is happening here is some fuzzy testing in that the thing is mounted to a test bench, spun up to speed to get the voltage at different rpm points and then loading with a dead short to get max amps instantaneous, and plotting those numbers.

this results in faulty assumptions, and worse wild advertizing.

i would pass on this one

just my take on it

bob g

bob g · « **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2005, 09:45:46 AM »

EXCUSE ME!!!!!

$1195.00 with a 90 day warranty!

wow, what a good deal dad! NOT!!!

7/8 shaft size alone is enough to tell the story here, that is not sufficient to carry the load reliably over about 2 kwatt, and certainly not with a 12 to 16 foot rotor attached being subjected to all sorts of gyro stresses...

man this drives me mad,

you would think for the money ($1195) someone could do alot better than this for a commercial offering.

geeez i hope i don't have any friends that but this turkey

bob g

Gary D · « **Reply #5 on:** October 04, 2005, 09:50:20 AM »

Not sure if anyone on this board would want to live near a non-furling 12 to 16 foot machine. If the blades wouldn't fly off, surely almost any tower would collapse during high storm winds... just a thought. Imagine a 16' set of blades doing 6000rpm! Faster than a helicopter rotor?

If you're interested in capturing a good ammount of power in low to moderate winds, check out Dan B.'s machine (otherpower link on top of page). Zubbly also has done motor conversions with impressive results, as have others. Gary D.

jimjjnn · « **Reply #6 on:** October 04, 2005, 10:22:03 AM »

For that price, I would rather get one of George's heads at Utterpower.com .

Prices are much better and you can tie it to one of those diesels he sells for the price of $1195 and maybe less.

maker of toys · « **Reply #7 on:** October 04, 2005, 11:38:48 AM »

they also don't call attention to the fact that the cut in speed for a 12VDC battery bank would be somewhere north of 800 rpm. I dunno about you, but even 12 ft blades would need some serious TSR and some serious wind to get going that fast. . .

(at 850 rpm, the tips of a 12' turbine would be traveling 533fps?!? that's faster than most BB guns shoot! With a TSR of 8, that's a 45mph wind.)

Dreadstar · « **Reply #8 on:** October 04, 2005, 10:43:21 PM »

I would rather spend 1/3 of that and buy a conversion from zubbly good solid workmanship nowhere near that output but hype is hype. his units work. check out his posts.

very nicely done units. Not a stupid car alternator conversion that can't do what it says unless in hurricane force winds for 2 seconds before it fails and destroys itself and other things within 3 miles of it when it comes apart. 90 day warranty speaks for itself. If it was a true quality unit should it not have a warranty measured in years?

there are car alternators out there that you could use that can possibly attain a peak of over 100 amps at 12vdc they make them now but the rpm's are way higher than most wind genny's can attain. And you can buy them for way under that price.

rajesh · « **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2005, 06:12:57 AM »

I AM USING 500-1000 WATTS PM ALTERNATOR WHICH IS WEIGHING MORE THAN 22 POUNDS.

I THINK IT WOULD BE 600 NOT 6000 WATTS.ANYHOW I WILL GO THROUGH THE WEB SITE AND WILL LET YOU KNOE MORE.

REGARDS

RAJESH

RayW · « **Reply #10 on:** October 08, 2005, 01:41:11 PM »

According to their specs I think that it would go up in a puff of smoke and I also think its way over priced.

RayW

wdyasq · « **Reply #11 on:** October 09, 2005, 08:44:34 AM »

Tinyurl.com is down right now - here is the link to google image search:

http://images.google.com/images?num=30&hs=9uG&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&cl
ient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=e-tek%20motor&btnG=Search&sa=N&t
ab=wi

I suspected it was the E-Tek. Hydrogen Appliances is known for false and missleading statements as well as overpriced products.

The E-Tek motor may make an interesting project. I doubt it will make a 6kW direct drive genny.

Ron

wdyasq · « **Reply #12 on:** October 09, 2005, 10:34:37 AM »

also - it is a lot less than $1200 from other sources....up to $800 less.

Ron

RayW · « **Reply #13 on:** October 10, 2005, 06:33:37 PM »

I saw it advertised for $379 on the Onyx Products site.

RayW

wind4Reg · « **Reply #14 on:** October 14, 2005, 10:13:48 AM »

Thanks for the comment Ron, you are right that is an Etek motor. I emailed Hydrogen appliances and asked them what the difference was between thier "exclusive to Hydrogen Appliances" Manta and the Etek. I suspect I will either get no reply or perhaps a nice little exaggeration from them. I'll have to post the response if they send one.

Reg.

wind4Reg · « **Reply #15 on:** October 18, 2005, 12:53:08 PM »

I got a response back from Hydrogen Appliances and they claim it is a modified ETEK, I wonder what they modified, it still weighs 22lbs just like the ETEK:

From : bob <info@oicu2.com>

Subject : Re: Manta PMG

It is similar but modified. You can't used an ETEK to charge a battery without

some know how and extra parts.

Bob

================

Reg.

TomW · « **Reply #16 on:** October 18, 2005, 01:15:45 PM »

Ha Ha I bet the "extra parts" are simply rectifiers or maybe just a bit of cable. But thats just me.

Cheers.

TomW

powerbuoy · « **Reply #17 on:** April 27, 2006, 08:20:48 PM »

Hi ...found this old post ...

ed lenz had tested these in the past ...you can find references on the old discussion board.

They are a fraud.

Powerbuoy

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