Induction motor grid tie?

[zmoz]

I'm thinking about building a diesel generator that I will only run about once a month to set my power meter back to zero, probably with a lister clone. I could use an alternator to charge a battery and a grid tie inverter, but that sounds rather inefficient and expensive. I know induction motors are rather good at getting on phase with the grid, but what about shutting it down if the power goes out? Is there anything available to buy that would do this?

[PowerBox]

Grid Tied Induction generator is all you need, you also need two way metering systemto monitor your power demand and power ouput. Using grid tied induction generator you will have automatic voltage and frequency regulation, just need to vary the slip to produce the amount of power you need. For Shutdown, Induction generator have automatic shutdown if the grid exciting current is out, to be safe you need some gateways of breakers and overload relays. Induction generators have a characteritics of failed safe grid connection. If you need help, please contact me.

[zmoz]

I hate to ask...how many arms/legs does one of those cost? I was thinking more along the lines of a converted induction motor.

[PowerBox]

Surplus Induction motor : 5-10 HP $100 or you can have it free.

Power Mover: Not so sure for 10HP Engine (surplus will be cheap or have it on backyard)

Overload relays and Breakers and Power Meters: $200

[zmoz]

Not talking about the motor and everything. What exactly do I need to do to hook up a converted induction motor to the grid?

[troy]

Keep in mind that regardless of the technical solution you come up with, you will still need the blessing of the utility.  Depending on the utility, that can be anything from almost painless to virtually impossible.  They will probably kill the deal if it's not all UL listed equipment.

Also, depending on which state and which utility, they may allow you to just run your standard meter backwards (net metering).  Or they may pay you a premium, or they may pay you .01/kwh.  They may require two seperate meters, one for produced, one for consumed.  They may charge you double monthly fees because they now have to read two meters instead of one.  It's kind of like a big conspiracy to prevent the little guy from helping out.

Good luck with that and let us know how you come out.  

troy

[zmoz]

There's some pretty good laws around here about net metering; they power company is required to give you a free "backwards" meter, as well as pay you the current rate you are paying, up to 25kw. It has to be some renewable source of energy, but I think the biodiesel I will be using would qualify for that.

[Nando]

Fuel needed will cost more than the price of the Grid energy bought -- It is a losing proposition -- no gain, unless you get a wind mill or a small hydro turbine.

Nando

[zmoz]

WVO is FREE.

[troy]

I can make biodiesel for $0.60/gal.  I then burn the biodiesel in my cogenerator to make my hot water.  This costs the same, or a bit less than running my natural gas water heater.  The cogenerator produces electricity as a free byproduct.  If I was willing to filter the veggie oil well, and preheat it to 180F, I could burn the straight veggie oil in the cogenerator at zero out-of-pocket expense, not counting initial investment.

It's a whole new paradigm,

Best regards,

troy

[hvirtane]

If I was willing to filter the veggie oil well, and preheat it to 180F, I could burn the straight veggie oil in the cogenerator at zero out-of-pocket expense, not counting initial investment.

It's a whole new paradigm,

Best regards,

troy

While this paradigm isn't totally new I think that this thought by Troy is a better paradigm than making biodiesel. I don't know many people doing this but I know that it works well. Good research concerning burning turnip oil in tractor diesel engines was done some years ago in Finland  by Valtra tractor factories. Some other people did

research concerning burning mustard oil in tractor engines. That also works well. You need to heat

veggie oils to about 80 Celsius degrees (= 176 F?) before injecting in the engine.  

- Hannu

[Bill Kichman]

I am personally doing this in my Lister GM-90 clone.  Have about 65 hours operation so far, it runs as good today as the first day I started it up, but admittedly this isn't much operating time.  I don't need to keep the oil that hot, room temp, 70 to 90F is fine. One key is allowing the oil to settle out undisturbed for a couple months, and another is keeping your fuel tank in a warm spot. I have 4000 gallons of storage out of doors, and a 300 gallon "using" tank inside where the gensets keep the tank at a nice reasonable temp.  Then I run the fuel line alongside the exhaust pipe copper tubing heat exchanger wrap, for a few feet, which adds a few degrees, not as much as you might think.  Just need to start the thing on starter fluid or heat the injector with a torch, or start it on normal diesel, then it goes and goes and goes.  Runs at least as strong as with diesel too.  I have learned so much in this endeavor, I feel like I should write a book :-).  And it is nice to bea ble to share here, and learn some too.  Cheers

P.S. Still looking for a good electric starter design for my Listeroid.  Hmm, maybe an air starter...

Bill K

 

[(unknown)]

Did you ever found a solution for this?

[pepa]

   hi Bill, if you have room on the flywheel, you can mount a flywheel from a self start small engine to the diesel flywheel and use the starter and controls and even use the coil to charge your battery. just make sure the add-on is well balanced and attached. i would start off with a metal disk attached to the diesel flywheel with through bolts to a backing plate, lots of bolts. adjustable bracket for starter should be easy. if the flywheels could be changed out it would be even better, weight could be added if the weight of the new flyweel was not enough for the engine. just a thought, pepa