chicago electric inverter?

[tjspears]

Our el-cheap-o have the 1200w Modified Sine wave Chicago Electric inverter on sale. We have been talking about getting some off-grid/backup power capabilities. Before spending a large amount on a full-blown system. We wanted to do some small scale projects.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93761

the only thing I would be running with this would be (not at the same time) critical things like the well pump, and the freezer, possibly the propane boiler pack for the heating system all are 115v (I know you need details, I'm at work and don't have actual wattage numbers with me at present)

the short term plan would be to build something similar to what vtpeaknik did (http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/12/3/17120/6524) and posted recently.

--James.

[Volvo farmer]

Well for one thing, you are looking at a $90 inverter. vtpeaknik's inverter/charger lists at about $1200.

You want something to play with as a toy? Want to throw it away like a child throws away a toy when you're done playing with it? Maybe don't want to play with it too often? Harbor Freight inverter perfect for you.

I built a little system with a similar inverter that you are considering for my garage that supplies my needs out there though. My needs are: Air compressor, 1/2 HP motor 20 minutes/week. 48W CFL lighting 30 min/week. Table saw 1/2 HP 1 hour/year. 12V TV 1/2 hour week, 12V radio 5 hrs/week.

I'm totally off grid, my little system does great with my little, occasional loads.

Vtpeakninik's system blows away my garage system though, 'cause he bought larger blocks to scale his system to. My Xantrex 1500W MSW inverter can barely start my circular saw. I'm afraid to charge batteries on my MSW inverter for 18V tools because the waveform sucks. I can't charge my system batteries from a 120V source, he can.

We both have about the same amount of battery He's got twice the solar panel I do, I think he has an inferior charge controller but that's my opinion.

It's hard to do, but possibly more cost-effective if you sort-of scale your system first, and then start buying stuff. It's entirely possible that $90 inverter can do everything you need it to, for years on end. My garage has been fine for years on a cheap inverter with generator backup.

Refrigerators/freezers seem to be the first thing people want to take off-grid, but in my experience, they should be the last things, because of their energy appetite.

Good luck!

[ghurd]

I wouldn't trust it either.

VF, What brand of 18V tools?

G-

[Bruce S]

I too have to agree on not going cheap on an importnat item that will beused to Keep stuff good.

I do not believe that even a good one will start and run the freezer. I have 3000 watter <cheapo> that won't even start a beer fridge :-)

As a "TEST" run , this'll do just fine, but I think if you look around, you'll be able to find a better model for the same or near the same price. That way once you get the idea and design worked out, this one can either be used or at minimum be a good backup.

Ebay and Craigslist will have better ones for a better price and the Truck stop usually have the better ones reasonably priced. I don't know any place would want to sell a trucker a crappy item :-O

Cheers

Bruce S

[tjspears]

The long-term plans are to be off grid. For now that is not a feasible option due to cash on hand. I know that in comparison to any Xantrax product that HF is junk, the point of this was to have a little more security in our winter storms. We were only out of power this time for a little under 24 hours. Last winter it was 4 1/2 days, which was fine. We heat mostly with wood, there are plenty of candles and lanterns around the house, and my backup water system (See One small step... ) works fine. The issue was that it is 45-50 degrees out instead of near 32 degrees like most of our winter storms so the food storage is an issue this time around.

I also have long-term plans for this. The old cabin on the property will become my wife's office space some day. So the HF inverter will probably end up out there. Since there is no grid power out there and the loads would be a fan, the laptop and some lights (none of which need to be 110vac, hmm time to do some more thinking)

I have been watching for a good deal on the inverter/charger I want (a Prosine 3kw 24v or a sw4024) it just has not happened yet. Some day...

--James.

[ghurd]

I know what you mean.

I have had a lot of good luck with the cheap Vector stuff (and they do honor their warranty). Even better luck with the old Statpower Portawattz stuff.

Either should be available on ebay at less than $90, if you keep watching.

I scored a pair of Vectors, an 800W and a 1200W, for $65 total... delivered.  That was extra lucky, but you get the idea.

G-

[americanreman]

Can't beat the vectors, I run a large side by side fridge freezer with a 2000 watt vector without any problems (backup grid)...I'm talking about a big fridge that you can slide a 24 can case of beer on any shelf.

I can't understand some posts saying they can't start refrigerators with msw inverters, I have never had a problem going back to the early 80's running refrigerators.

[Jeff]

My parents got me that exact same model a year ago. They didn't know a lot about inverters, but it's literally the only source of electric I have most of the time. They're an energy hog (use a LOT more than most others when "idle"). If you want to use the cheaper inverters, look for efficiency % (should be about 95% at 1/2 load), and the amount of amps it draws when idle. You can find 2 or 3 easily that only draw about 0.6amps when idle, or 6-10 watts if they list it that way. I ended up wiring my fridge's thermostat into the on/off switch on mine. It has no problem starting the fridge, but the fridge only draws 4.75amps at startup, and less than 4amps once it's running.

I'd definitely research & compare numbers on these inverters before I spent my money on one! The two I had in mind both had a very low draw when idle, were the same wattage, and about 10% more efficient than the Chicago Electric inverter. All for only $30-$40 more.

[mixerman]

At this time the 1000 W inverters at HF are on sale, it price is very inviting!

2000. w  $150
      
1000. w (94009) 80.00
      
1000. w (97047) 60.00 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?function=Search
      
700. w  (91848) 50.00
     
400. w   (92708) 25.00
     
     

Then the 15% coupon applys!

 Im only a beginner at applying power to household ideam's, but I have on inverter other than a large Tripp Lite (1200 w). I only have the HF 45w kit to charge the car battery im using at this time. I was thinking the 1000w 97047 might be what I need to get started, I know I dont have much to work with but it sure would be nice to have avable a inverter if really needed. The better battery's will come later. Any comments on my choise are welcome.

Denny

mixerman

[Jeff]

I have that same Chicago Elec. inverter from H.F. My parents got it for me before researching it, and beggars can't be choosers. I needed some source of elec. desperately. If you spend the time, do some research, you'll find there's quite a few out there in the same wattage range that are much more efficient. I mean WAYYYY more efficient! I've run this crap out of my Chicago inverter though, and yes, I use it to run my fridge! It's a small 17 cubic foot fridge/freezer that draws 4.2 amps once started. The 1200 watt inverter has been starting it with no problem for just over a year and a half now, and that's on a 15 minute per hour timer that turns on the inverter with the fridge already plugged in! So... even a halfway decent inverter can run these things with a good battery array. Yes, I would go with a more efficient inverter if I had the opportunity & means. My fridge is now about 25 years old, and just has started having problems starting from the inverter. Can't complain on that, and there is always "hard-start" kits that would help it along a great deal for only 12-20 $$ . This same inverter also has no problem running a 7 amp skillsaw, 12 amp vacuum cleaner, and will even start my 10 amp table saw if I "bump" it on for a second just to get the blade going around. Then, before the blade stops again, turn it on again. This is with the inverter already running, of course, and using the switch on the saw/vacuum.

Like most have said, it is a "cheapie" inverter. But, it is and can be usable for most everything. 1/2 horsepower motors are at the upper limit for the 1200 watt model though. If you don't already have one, I'd REALLY recommend at least a better brand with higher efficiency, stand-by or "instant-on" mode, and go up to at least a 1500 watt model for those 10 amp or 1/2 horsepower motors!

Again, this is basically the heart of your system! It's much better to spend even another $100 and have more than you need (as long as the efficiency rating is up there), than try to get the absolute lowest & least! If I had to spend my own $ or get another, it would at least be rated 88% or higher, with a no-load draw of less than 3/4 amp (750 milliamps or less). I've found 3 or 4 that have these specs for only $20-40 more than the Chicago Electric.

good luck!

[mixerman]

I got e-mailed more coupons from HF this morning , now thay have the 1500 w model on sale also! Its 100 bucks. Sale is good until July 6th.

http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/93000-93999/93280.pdf

The directions say that it has a MSW efficiency of 93%, but Im not sure if this is the efficiency rating  you are explaning to me.

Denny

mixerman

[Jeff]

sorry about the double post, was having connection problems at the time & didn't know if it posted.

[Jeff]

Let's see if my coneection problems persist....

Yes, I was talking about the efficiency % rating. The URL you poasted said it was 92%. BUT, I was also talking about what the thing draws when there is no load present (in other words, with the inverter running, but nothing running or plugged into it). Chicago Electric is very slick liek a used car salesman (sorry if any of you sell used cars, but you know some of them can be very mis-directing). They don't mention what the inverter draws power-wise under no load!!! If you look at other inverters, most of the better ones are now listing this rating also.  Here's one:

http://www.invertersrus.com/inv1250w.html

It's only $121.00 !!! and it only draws less than 0.5 amps under no-load. Some models list this as watts, so remember to convert! That means the 1250 watt one I mentioned would draw about 60 watts. That's one of the better ones, I think.

 Look at some of the other ones on that site too. Even though it might be a good deal, I'd highly recommend spending another $20 or even $50 bucks for one of these rather than the Chicago Electric.

[ghurd]

No Load Draw is from the 12V battery.

The 0.5A is about 7W.

But yes, I'd spend an extra $20 (or $50) on something else too.

G-

[mixerman]

I looked up on line at HF all the inverters thay have on sale at this time and found that none list the "no load Draw"! I called HF at 18004443353 and asked about the "no load draw" of the 94009 (1000W inverter), coustomer service could not help but my question was forwarded to more tech people and they said they would e-mail me the answer.

I actually have a small 60w HF inverter (91813) it was about 6 bucks on sale, I used it about a month ago during a short outage to power a small B/W tv , weather conditions moving through the area.

thanks for the info.

Denny

mixerman

[Jeff]

oops! that 1 decimal place does mean a lot! Thanks ghurd! 0.5 amps at 14 volts would be 7 watts!

Chicago Electric doesn't list the no-load draw on their inverters for a reason! I measured mine shortly after I got it, and it was more on the order of 3 amps! Or...slightly more than I was getting out of my H.F. solar panels!

[mixerman]

Its been a few days now and still on word from HF Tech! Ill start watching e-bay and see whats out there.

I was at Lowes the other day and checked out was there, they had Vector brand inverters but on the outside of the box they had no information about "no load current draw".

thanks for the input

Denny

mixerman

[mixerman]

Got a answer today from HF, about there 1000 w inverter :

DESCRIPTION:

Cust would like to know how much draw does the invertor have without a load. Does not state in manual.

ANSWER:

Per test report information (as tested) the amperage draw is less then 1.2 amps with no load.

Thanks for the input.

Denny

mixerman

[Jeff]

Hmmm, that's not too bad a number, if it can be believed.

I don't recall the exact number, but I tested mine shortly after I got it. I DO remember it drew more than twice what my H.F. 45watt solar panels put out! They put out 2 amps average (I have them mounted so I can tilt & rotate them to get the most out of them).

The unit I gave you the URL to draws half of what they claimed the Chicago Electric  model does, has more features, and is only 20-some dollars more.

OH, I just remembered, only a month after I had it, one of the cooling fans went bad in mine. It was way too much hassle to ship the thing back for replacement or repair. They don't have actual repair service at H.F., so they would have either replaced the whole unit, or sent it to the manufacturer. All that time I would have been without electric!

[hayfarmer]

I agree with the previous poster that the vector inverters are far Superior to the H.F. models, I have been abusing vectors for years and they took it well.I saw  a  H.F. 1500w

on feebay going for 14 bucks and couldn't resit.bought it , when it arrived thinking it was toast hooked it to battery with jumper cables. To my suprise it worked,just for grins

pluged in a drill and inverter alarm went on and died,connected proper inverter cables,had  two sets 4 awg cobra types on hand and worked like a charm for chain & circular

saws etc. emailed feebay seller asked why he sold it,"I hooked to my battery with 12 awg romex and it wont work", may want to ask length and size of cable used to sellers

 on  feebay    "thanks for the sale" said I    my abused vectors still work just wanted spare to keep in truck.

hayfarmer

[fabricator]

I use this inverter, it's a little more than the HF junk but it starts my 1.5 hp well pump, my freezer and my fridge and they all run great on it and it HAS actual ground fault protection and the neutral is bonded to the earth ground internally so it is NEC compliant, they are made in Taiwan.
http://www.theinverterstore.com/the-inverter-store-product.php?model=pwrinv5k-front-rgb