MPPT controller for wind Turbine

[(unknown)]

Hello,

Has anyone here heard of the new Outback MPPT contoller for wind ?

Here is a link to a video I made about my turbine and the modified FM80.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u1N7dQBKxc

Outback has developed a MPPT for wind turbines and I have one installed and it works great!! Only problem is that is has been designed to work only with ARE (Abundant Renewable Energy's) ARE 110 low voltage 2.5kw Wind Turbine.

Outback has modified the FM80 and programmed it with a new mathematical algorithm so that it will work with ARE's wind 2.5 kw turbine. Its called the Windtracker 80. This is the first MPPT for wind anywhere on the planet thats specifically made for battery charging systems, I believe.

Here is a link to ARE's wind turbine manual that directly references using outbacks FM80. Pretty sweet !!

Go to page 6 for a picture of the modified FM80 and page 8 for the description about the new FM80 controller.

http://www.abundantre.com/ARE110-48V...cal_Ver4.3.pdf

Here is a link to my website and some pictures of the my new modified FM80 (AKA Wind Tracker 80)

http://www.rockriver.us/7.htm

Recently, I was pulling out about 1500 watts with winds around 18 mph.

I have seen sustained wattage of 2500 to 3500 watts from my turbine.

I am trying to get another modified FM80 so I can use it when I build my home Brew 17' axial FLux.

[bob g]

i went to your webpage and did some reading

you report seeing only about 800 watts max. with a 25-30mph wind

before the fm80

and now you are getting 1500watts with an 18mph wind?

without doing alot of math, and in my head

an 18mph wind has approx a quarter the power of a 25mph wind

and you are getting about twice the power output with about a quarter

of the windpower?

thats like an 8 fold increase?

i know mppt works and i fully understand the technology, but

this seems a bit over the top to me, unless of course i am missing something.

maybe it is just too many variables? maybe different instrumentation measuring power

before and after installing the fm80?

maybe i misread something?

bob g

[(unknown)]

Bob, I apologize for not being precise with my estimations.

I do not have an annenometer and am eyeballing the trees and am estimating wind speeds via the beaufort scale. These figures are approximate. Never the less, the important thing is that , now with the new controller, just before furling the turbine puts out between 3000 to 3500 watts sustained which is ruffly 1000 watts more than ARE said I would get.  Before the outback FM80, just before furling the turbine would max out at around 800 , maybe 900 watts.

The ARE controller kicks excess power to the Div Load at around 101 volts so I can definitively correlate 101 volts ac input to around 3500 watts dc output.

Also, with the proper binary code you can reprogram the ARE controller to let the input ac voltage go higher but I think they stop it at 100 or 101 to keep things from over heating.

Have you heard of this new controller?

[(unknown)]

correction:

I meant to say 101 volts DC input, Input into the Outback fm80.

correction:

I also meant to say that you can reprogram the ARE controller to increase the DC output higher than 100 or 101 to the Outback.

sorry for any confusion.

[Flux]

You aren't giving us much information to go on and with no wind data then it is even less for us to comment on.

From what I can gather from your information and a link that doesn't work for me you have a 48v machine being allowed to run up to 100v with the converter. This gives you the possibility of doubling the output power if the limiting factor is stator heating.

How much improvement you really see depends on the alternator efficiency and the way that the alternator matches the prop with and without the converter. Doubling the voltage should let you see a very significant improvement as long as the prop loading is improved or not worsened. The voltage range is somewhat restricted for a mppt controller but even so it should be a huge improvement.

Other factors such as changes in furling wind speed could have significant effect on what is going on. You would need a proper power curve running with and without the converter to really see how effective it is, but there is no reason for it not to be a great step in the right condition.

For the best possible results the alternator needs a higher efficiency than normally used with direct battery charging so if your machine was intended for direct battery charging then the 2:1 change in volts may be all you can reasonably cope with.

The ideal alternator will have the prop running at working tsr at cut in and the alternator should be efficient enough to drive the thing hard into stall as the wind picks up. Without the converter the ideal machine will give very poor results but as the converter lets the volts rise the prop should track wind speed and a 3 or 4:1 voltage rise would be needed to let the thing run up to furling with the prop speed still tracking wind speed.

Better high wind power comes from the higher electrical efficiency and even more so from the gain in aerodynamic efficiency of the prop not being dragged down into stall.

This is probably the start of an idea that is long overdue. As it is devoted to one machine and seems to have to be programmed I suspect it is a cube law tracker rather than a seeking mmpt device but that doesn't in any way make it less effective.

Flux

[(unknown)]

Im getting up to 3500 watts now out of a 2500 watt machine. Thats all I care about.

Here is the link for the ARE manual that you referred to.

http://www.abundantre.com/ARE110-48V_Owners_Manual_Electrical_Ver4.3.pdf

My website:

http://www.rockriver.us

thanks for the comment. I take it that you have NOT heard of the new Outback FM80 wind turbine contoller either?

[(unknown)]

When you said cube law tracker were you referring to the Outback FM80? The OUTBACK FM80 is MPPT and thats what I am using.

[bob g]

ok, getting an extra 1000 watts out of a 2500watt machine is within the realm

of possibility with an mppt converter, if done right.

you might want to verify what the fm80 states as output amps though

if it is like the mx60 the output amps displayed is a calculated number

and not a measured quanitity.

do you have another amp and volt meter on the output sided to verify the fm80's

figures?

looks good

btw, nice installation you have there

bob g

[Flux]

Sorry I seem to have offended you, can't think why I thought I made it perfectly clear that mppt is the way to go.

I will try your new link to see if it works this time. You seem incapable of explaining what the ARE controller bit does. I have no idea where it fits into the scheme. I have to admit that I originally thought that the programming bit referred to the FM80.

As you seem to regard this as a prestige thing being first rather than serious discussion I will just congratulate you and let you get on with it. One day I am sure someone will give real wind details of the performance of the FM80 under these conditions so that I can see how well it does.

You are happy , you are a pioneer so all is well. I only play as a hobby, I can't afford commercial turbines or expensive controllers but I have done quite a bit in the mppt for wind field, I am fully aware of what can be done and the problems. I am sorry I offended you by questioning whether the FM80 was tracking mppt but your information was very incomplete and misleading. You seem to want the glory but are not prepared to discuss the issue at a level that will benefit the rest of us.

Flux

0

[Flux]

Thanks the new link works and I can now see that the ARE clamp is designed to protect the FX80, it is not a battery charging device and will have no effect on the FX80 performance up to clamp voltage.

This clamp is an issue that others are going to have to face if they try to use some of the mppt devices with home built wind machines. I expect most mppt controllers will eventually come with a suitable clamp but in the early stages it is logical for the turbine manufacturer to deal with that part of the issue. It is easier to build everything as a system rather than have everyone doing their own thing. The same situation applies to the Windyboy grid tie inverter, SMA leave it to others to keep the input voltage within limits.

I an interested to see that the turbine resembles another well known one in appearance.

Flux

[(unknown)]

I am not offended by anything you said. I am just trying to spread the word around about this new modified FM80 that no one seems to know about yet. Not to mention that this could potentially work with any turbine (thats electrically compatible ) if you had power curve info for it, and of course the password to the fm80.

As far as programming , you can program the ARE controller (which I have done personally) and you can also program the FM80 but you need the password. I don't have the password and have not programmed the FM80.

AS far as glory, I don't want that... I just want to help others by providing my experience (refer to http://www.rockriver.us ) and spread the word about this new controller.

AS far as prestige, I don't want that.............. I just want to help others by providing my experience (refer to http://www.rockriver.us ) and spread the word about this new controller.

As far as what the ARE controller does, its just a rectifier, wild AC to DC conversion, with diversion load circuit.

The MPPT happens exclusively in the FM80.

I don't have a lot of technical knowledge, but I do have my experience of which I am trying to share.

As far a wind data, there are only about nine people in the world who actually have this modified fm80 including myself. It has only been released to ARE customers for a month or so. At some point folks will come out with their own personal wind data. However the only wind data we have now has been provided by ARE which you can find here at the following link:

http://www.abundantre.com/actual_power_curve_11-1-07.pdf

I am very happy -----but -- a Pioneer, I am not so sure. I would say in my case,  the real pioneers are Outback Power systems and ARE, I am just along for the ride and trying to help others by spreading the word.

Maybe one day we will be able to buy these controllers from Outback and program them with power curve data for our own home brew axial flux turbines. That would be sweet!

I think that somehow, Maybe I have offended you by not being technical enough.

Oh well, I am just going to go back to welding up my two solar panel frames for the new kyocera 205 watt solar panels I just bought. I will be posting pictures of those to my website once Im done.

Take care and peace.

[Flux]

Thanks for clearing up what you were trying to do. If these things are at present only released to a few insiders then it is not surprising that few know about them.

If they are available to purchase then you are doing a good job telling the rest of us but if they are not yet on general release then others are going to have to wait.

I appreciate that you are may not be the technical link in the system but you didn't quite give that impression at first. At least you are providing facilities for testing.

I tend to look at these things from the Fieldlines point of view and from the comments there, I don't have a lot of spare time to delve into links and other web sites to get the full story of what is going on sometimes. Most people tend to come here with their problems or observations and if things go off onto other web sites I sometimes loose track of the issue.

I am not offended in any way by your lack of technical knowledge, but I was thrown a bit by your comment that you are getting 3500 W from a 2500W machine and that was all you cared about it. It gave me the impression that you thought I was questioning your results. If I took it the wrong way I am sorry.

Keep us posted with the results and if you manage to get better wind figures then that would be a real help.

Flux

[TomW]

srr;

So, please clear this up for me and a couple users who contacted me concerned this was inappropriate pimping here:

In this case, I ask in my official Editor's capacity because users who chose not to get directly involved feel you are abusing the board to pimp with exorbitant claims for a commercial entity. I happen to agree it appears to be the case.

Doesn't bother me to jump in as most new users think I am a jerk anyway.

Do you work for Outback or are you just pimping for them because you are so awestruck by this device?

Sorry, but I am always suspicious of these "Wow this is a great device" posts from new users as their only posts.

Like Flux said or implied. This is a DIY board and few can either afford or get a chance to try this cutting edge stuff.

Bravo, you got in with the first semi scientific report on it here!

Don't get me wrong, Outback makes fine equipment and I use a few grand worth of their gear daily. I just never felt the need to be their spokesperson online.

We are looking forward to your tests with measuring equipment independent of the airport and the device itself.

Tom

[(unknown)]

I do not work for outback or ARE. I am just another person excited about renewable energy and new technologies. I personally think that this board has become a hostil environment with accusatory tones and assumptions. I am just sharing my personal experience. See my website www.rockriver.us and you will see what my motives are. If you find it necessary, please strip all my posts from your website. It sounds like my experience is not wanted here anyway.

[TomW]

Well, that clears that up.

I guess I am more traffic cop than diplomat so don't take it personally. We only know you by what you write. I have to respond to long term users requests as it is kind of part of my responsibilities here.

That bleeding edge RE stuff is a bit out of my league these days. Mostly hand built components here except the inverter the Mate and the solar panels. Used, reused and recycled.

Anytime you quote numbers here you will probably be questioned on the accuracy.

I guess Fieldlines is following the route of Home Power magazine. More about big money installs, theory and commercial products and less about the lone guy wrestling with his welder and a pile of steel in his garage.

Anyway, no offense intended.

That is a sweet setup you have there for sure.

Thanks.

Tom

[(unknown)]

No offense taken. Thanks for the complement.

 Bottom line.....

We don't need to be completely dependent on the power company anymore

 because there is an.OTHER.POWER.

lets get back to work.....

[(unknown)]

more youtube videos with the Outback FM80 hooked up to my A.R.E. 2.5kw wind turbine.

http://www.youtube.com/user/srockriver

[MaxtorD]

Any new updates?    I first found you on YouTube and then tracked you back to here.  lol.  Anyway.   How is your system working out for you?   Any new status on your Power bill troubles?  How have the new batteries worked out for you?  Do you still have the grid-connect when the garbage disposal is on?

I wanted to let you know that I REALLY appreciate your hard work (and the others on this site as well).  Those YouTube videos really help answer some questions I had.  I know I learn visually very well. After looking at your setup and how it functions...  I know I could do that very easily.  Before your videos, I was questioning my ability to setup everything proper.  Again Thank you.  

Another quick question... How far do you estimate that your tower is above those pine trees?

-MaxtorD-

[(unknown)]

Hey, thanks . Yes, this site is really great! I am grateful to those who continue to keep it going, Thanks folks!!!  I am really glad to know that my videos/youtube videos have helped. If I can

help just one person with my experience, then I would say this the

website/videos were a success.

questions?

01. How is your system working out for you?

System is working great. So great that I rarely even go out to check

it. I did see some corrosion on three of the battery terminals but

that was easy to clean, water, baking soda, small broom.

02. Any new status on your Power bill troubles?

Have not had any real bill troubles.  I am not selling back to the

grid right now. Well let me rephrase. I am connected to the grid and

when I produce extra power it does go into the grid but I am getting

nothing for it. NO money , no credits. The reason is that net metering

was not worth the trouble. This is because they use a demand fee when

you do netmetering. Demand fee = (largest amount of power used in a ,

I think 15 minute period) x (a multiplier which I think was 5 bucks)

so as an example , say I used 9000 watts all at the same time (several

appliances, water heater, etc.. going at same time) You would multiply

9 x 5 which ='s 45 bucks !. The 45 does not include the kwh that I

used. Its added on to the 45 so sometimes my bill would be 120 bucks.

There is also a sellback fee of 5 or so bucks plus a rental fee for

the meter which is about 9 bucks. It was just not worth it so I am

just giving excess power back to the grid. The backup panel reconnects

to the grid around 8:00pm. Batteries are usually around 50 to 60%

capacity by 8:00pm. Sometimes the backup panle gets kicked over to the

grid during the day but that is usually when we are really cranking

power. Most of the appliances on question three do not run

simultaneously, However many do run at the same time, we try to stay

aware.

03. How have the new extra batteries worked out for you?

The new extra batteries have worked great. At 8:00 am the inverters

disconnect the "backup panel"  from the grid completely. The main

panel is still connected to the grid so all the ehavy load stuff on

the main panel can still function.

So, at this point the backup panel is running strictly on the battery

bank/ wind/ sun. What do we run on off the backup panel you probably

wonder.

Here is a list of things that run off of batteries/sun/wind during the day from 8:00am to 8:00pm:

1. ) Garbage disposal
   
2. ) 240 v 20 amp submersible water pump (Gould brand) for my well.
   
3. ) 1500watt microwave
   
4. ) washing machine (top loader)
   
5. ) three  plug in electric burners , electric rotisserie oven ( we have been using these to cook meals now). We rarely use the electric range anymore except during large parties or christmas time when the turkey won't fit in the rotisserie oven.
   
6. TV, VCR, DVD, DELL desktop w/ flatscreen monitor(computer stays on
   
   

all day for my wide)

7. ) all lights in house. All receptacles in house.
   
8. On weekends when I am not at work I use skill saws, drills, jig
   
   

saws, air compressor.

9.) Attic fan ( this is the type of fan that  is about 36" in diameter

and is installed facing down on the top floor. You turn it on and it

sucks air from the house and blasts it outside thru the roof/gable vent. We

open windows in on the bottom floors on the north side and get a nice

comfortable Belizian breeze most days. More like Chapel Hillian breeze (chapel hill N.C.)that is..

10. ) Full size refrigerator
    
11. ) deep freezer.
    
12. ) Blower in the air conditioner evaporator coils unit. This is to
    
    

circulate wood stove heat thru all vents on first floor in winter.

13.) Kids giant water slide with one of those blower motors that has

to stay on all the time to keep it blown up whle water from the water

hose is constantly shooting onto the slide.

So given the list above that runs on battery bank / renewable energy,

If we were ok with hanging clothes on the clothes line ,taking cold

shower, and not having COLD AC , we would have no problem completely

disconnecting from the grid entirely.

 04. Do you still have the grid-connect when the garbage disposal is on with

 the new batteries?

Disposal is on backup panel so it runs off batteries during the day.

 05. How far do you estimate that your tower is above those pine trees?

The tower is 106'. The trees are about 30 maybe 40 at the most.

--

KWH usage for May was 578 total from the grid (Progress

Energy). I have no clue what I am using from the batteries (I don't have a personal meter installed yet) but my

average usage on my power bill used to be about 2000kwh or more (prior

to April 2007)

Here is data from my current bill.

Date Mailed

5/26/2009

kWh Usage

578

kWh On Peak

178

kWh Off Peak

400

kW Demand On Peak

 9.11

kW Demand Off Peak

8.75

Read Date

 5/22/2009

# Of Days

28

Good luck. When you are done, help someone else! pass it on.......

-shane