Radial Flux Generator Project

[ChrisOlson]

Got the stator and rotor mounted to a turbine head using my existing stator supports so it will fill fit any turbine I got with a 14" stator.





Can't do much more with this thing right now until my magnets come in the mail.
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Chris

[jimovonz]

It looks really impressive Chris! I'm a bit concerned that all that stationary conductive steel in the support for the ring is going to cause you significant loss - it is placed right where you described the nail being effected by the magnets in your test...

[fabricator]

Nice work bench. Alumacraft?

[ChrisOlson]

It looks really impressive Chris! I'm a bit concerned that all that stationary conductive steel in the support for the ring is going to cause you significant loss - it is placed right where you described the nail being effected by the magnets in your test...

The first test I'm going to do when I get those magnets is to run the turbine shaft with my hydraulic setup and measure the power it takes just to turn the bearings @ 330 rpm.  Then I'm going to install the stator with no coils in it, and the rotor, and run it again at 330 rpm to measure eddy losses.

If it passes that test, the second test will be to wind a test coil and spin it at 98 rpm (proper cut-in speed for 13 foot PowerMax blades - 7 TSR, 6.5 mph) to see how many turns it takes for cut-in compared to a dual rotor axial with the same magnets at .750" air gap.  If that looks reasonable I will consider all tests to have been passed and I'll proceed with winding it.
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Chris

[ChrisOlson]

Nice work bench. Alumacraft?

You dang right, Fab!  The ol' Backtroller 14 has so many stators, shafts, tools, hardware, beer cans, and whatnot stacked on top of the livewell door that if I hooked on and went fishin people would think some sort of traveling junk salesman pulled up to the boat landing hauling his junk in a boat   

I was working on this thing in the garage today because it was cooler than in the shop.  I guess I'd better clean up my mess..........
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Chris

[fabricator]

My usual practice is to let it stack up high enough until there's an avalanche that they can measure on the richter scale at the college five miles away, then it's time to clean up a little bit.

[ruddycrazy]

My usual practice is to let it stack up high enough until there's an avalanche that they can measure on the richter scale at the college five miles away, then it's time to clean up a little bit.

Not here just let the bench pile up with empty beer cans and other stuff, then go build another workbench do the same, now my 12x11 metre shed is full of work bench's and stuff ( the beer cans got cleaned up by my son and we got $100 for them) it's time to move the 5,000 gal water tank off my shed site so I can extend the shed by 12x11 metres with a 4 metre roof so I can make bigger stacked bench's for more stuff......

Chris,
        It's great to see you thinking out of the box on this one but as you do show putting the magnets square on the rotor will that cause any cogging

Cheers Bryan

[DamonHD]

Hah!  One advantage I have of having such a small house is that we *have* to be semi-ruthless with everything and FreeCycle (or equivalent) anything that we're not making good use of...  B^>

Rgds

Damon

[tecker]

YAll Knock it off I just started cleaning . I revived several motor carcass and bought parts for the lath because I was embarrassed by you shop stewards . So now I 'm getting a bug on to collect the beer cans to buy beer. Done I 'm gone to the yard and the beer store ( well it has other things but it has really cold beer)

[ChrisOlson]

The difficulty of a project is measured by how many empty beer cans accumulate on your workbench.
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Chris

[DamonHD]

That'll explain why I only get to do very small projects!  %-P

(Other than my on-grid PV which counts as a very large dirt-accumulating surface in its own right.)

Rgds

Damon

[TomW]

It is good to know I am not the sole human who is horizontal surface impaired. IE: every horizontal surface is covered with projects or whatever landed there!





Tom

[Tritium]

It is good to know I am not the sole human who is horizontal surface impaired. IE: every horizontal surface is covered with projects or whatever landed there!





Tom

HSI goes right along with TES (tool envy syndrome)

Thurmond

[fabricator]

The difficulty of a project is measured by how many empty beer cans accumulate on your workbench.
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Chris

I wonder if I could get a gummint grant to study the correlation between degree of difficulty and beer can accumulation? Seems like the beer industry would be interested too.

[ChrisOlson]

I wonder if I could get a gummint grant to study the correlation between degree of difficulty and beer can accumulation? Seems like the beer industry would be interested too.

I've tried to get a guvvermint grant to install a Jacobs 31-20 and there's a better chance of an airplane flying over and tossing out a briefcase filled with 2 million dollars and having it land right at my feet with a note on it that says "help yourself".

However, for something entirely more useful, like knowing the correlation between degree of project difficulty and beer can accumulation, I'm guessing you could get one of those grants without even trying too hard.  Heck, the DNR here in Wisconsin blew $7.5 million on studying mating habits of migratory birds in the Horicon Marsh.  So I see no reason why the average guy shouldn't be able to get a couple mil to study this beer can thing.
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Chris

[fabricator]

There has to be a professional grant application nerd on this board, I'd like to get right on this, I'd apply for about two mill then spend it on a Jake 31-20, I think that is how the grant thing is generally done.

[tecker]

I was thinking that some of the work surfaces could be declared an archeological site .I was very pleased with some of the finds as I made . digging  through the layering system of late . I don't know what sort of tribes that inhabited at that time ; but I found replications that may be workable.

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

(Realized after posting that there were six pages and I only read the first one.  Edited to kill the comment because the issue was answered on the other pages.)

[bj]

  Seeing as how we all have highjacked this anyway, I have a cure for Tom's Horizontal Surface Impairment.

Simply stick your spare Neo's on the walls.  Then stick anything that will attract to them.  Maybe leave a fair
distance between magnets.  Advantage/disadvantage is that everything in the shop will pick up small objects
after a while.
  Biggest advantage is that they cannot read my meter from the road anymore.  They have to get up close to
it.  Nice lady that does that.
  Maybe I should put up a Pacemaker users beware sign?  Or seek professional help?

[Fused]

Them magnets on yet? 

[ChrisOlson]

Them magnets on yet?  

They never showed up.  According to the UPS tracking thing they had an "arrival scan" in Oak Creek, WI at 1:52 PM on Thursday.  But they never made it to me.  I'm guessing they're less than 10 miles from here sitting in a UPS truck at the depot in Rice Lake all weekend.

It shows they had a "departure scan" at 7:43 PM yesterday from Oak Creek.  If I knew they were going to sit in Oak Creek for over a day I could've rode down there on the moped and been back by now with them.
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Chris

[TomW]

I'm guessing they're less than 10 miles from here sitting in a UPS truck at the depot in Rice Lake all weekend.
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Chris

Chris;

Since the Brown Trucks are usually Aluminum, do not accept any excuse regarding them being stuck to the delivery truck shelf while the Union Rep figured out who's job it was to remove them. 

Hope they show up soon.

Tom

[ChrisOlson]

Since the Brown Trucks are usually Aluminum, do not accept any excuse regarding them being stuck to the delivery truck shelf while the Union Rep figured out who's job it was to remove them. 

Yeah, the truck that had my magnets in it probably drove by another truck, which caused eddy currents in it, and everything came to a grinding halt.
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Chris

[bj]

Chris: or maybe navigating by compass, and driving around in circles somewhere
Hope you get them soon--interesting project.

[ChrisOlson]

Since it rained all day I found something else I could do while I wait for magnets.  I drilled and tapped three holes in the rotor so I can screw bolts in and attach a puller to install and remove the rotor from the generator:



And then I decided to build a set of 10" axial rotors so I can compare the radial to a axial when I get around to bench testing them.  Ain't got no magnets for these either - now I need 24 more of the things.



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Chris

[ChrisOlson]

Rather than wind a test coil I wound a test phase.  Plus two coils in phase 2 and then I ran out of wire.  It only took about 35 minutes to wind one phase.  I used 30 turns of wire.  By winding a complete test phase I'll be able to calculate how much tesla I got at the coil legs and then I'll know exactly how many turns of wire to wind for the real thing.

Now all I need is those magnets to find out how much voltage I get out of this phase at 98 rpm.  Hopefully tomorrow........



I did finish my 10" axial rotors for my test genny:


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Chris

[artv]

Execelent work Chris .......you should try multi-staging.............staggering the path of the magnetic flux......so it hits here then there.....artv

[RP]

Execelent work Chris .......you should try multi-staging.............staggering the path of the magnetic flux......so it hits here then there.....artv

Why?

[artv]

Why?........These gennys' only hit every 20 or 30 degrees of rotation.......why not every degree of rotation??...........artv

[ChrisOlson]

Execelent work Chris .......you should try multi-staging.............staggering the path of the magnetic flux......so it hits here then there.....artv

If you could see the pole to phase timing this thing is going to have a pretty square sine wave the way it is.  I got 30 degree pole spacing and 40 degree leg spacing.  I'm going to run it when my mags get here tomorrow afternoon and see what I get for voltage, and hook it up to the scope and see just how square that sine wave is.  If it's too square I'm going to "cheat" and stick the stator in the mill and cut the coil leg holes wider to move the coil legs a bit closer together.
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Chris

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

Chris: or maybe navigating by compass, and driving around in circles somewhere
Hope you get them soon--interesting project.

A not-funny about that.

Remember the air crash of the three guys from Tesla Motors?  Took off from Palo Alto airport in a light fog and then, rather than flying out over the bay,flew in a curve and crashed into a power tower in East Palo Alto, right next to the airport?  (Pilot was quite experienced...)

I have wondered whether one of 'em had a neo in his pocket that captured the mag compass.  Scenario:  Pilot doesn't notice that the compass is off, takes off into fog.  Once off the runway tries to come to the correct heading.  With the magnet in the plane the compass holds essentially the same reading no matter which way the plane is pointed.  So he flies in a circle and hits the power tower.

A neo in a light plane ought to be able to do that just fine.  (I recall back in the late '70s when a friend was disassembling voice coil actuators for old washing-machine style disk drives to sell the alnico magnets for the cobalt scrap value.  The magnets were the size of a can of pumpkin.  Once out of the flux guides they'd foul the image on the color TV from across the (large) living room.  Rotating the magnet caused the colors to shift big time.  Neos are a LOT stronger than alnico, so even a small one, without a keeper, in a light plane should foul the compass.

[ChrisOlson]

I have wondered whether one of 'em had a neo in his pocket that captured the mag compass

If he took off in fog he should've been IFR and wouldn't be using the mag compass anyway.  You pick up an IFR departure heading using the DG to intercept a VOR radial.

Chances are, he was a VFR pilot taking off in IFR conditions with the hope of climbing out and proceeding VFR on top.  Which is all totally legal under the FAR's.  But if he didn't break out on top as soon as he expected and got disoriented without enough instrument conditions flight experience to handle it ..... well...... it's too late now.

I hold a commercial license with multi-engine and instrument ratings with over 10,000 hours PIC and over 5,500 actual IFR.  I've seen VFR pilots attempt some pretty bold stuff over the years - some of them got away with it, some didn't.  There's an old phrase in the aviation business - "There's old pilots, and there's bold pilots.  But there are no old, bold pilots".
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Chris

[tecker]

The mags  will settle over the slots and unfortunately cog hard there as they bond on the wide core segments .I think you can buy some increased power by cutting a slot in those to lessin the bond .That's why you see small long segments in even the largest motors .