Need a winch for my turbine

[gsw999]

I want to get a winch so that I can put up and take down smallish turbines on 6-9m towers ( mainly playing about to be honest ) , my question is , is this winch any good, I can get it at a reasonable price off ebay and it is boxed, here is a link to it on the manufacturer website. 

http://www.kingonewinch.com/Product_info.aspx?Productsid=18&ProductsCateID=1642

I dont want to use it to put up a 20 footer or anything that big but would be nice to have something so that I could put up and take down my ten footer which will be on a guyed monopole, also to enable me to put up and take down my indiana / ametek based turbines, maybe I am better off with a hand winch , opinions please.

Thanks


Gavin , Cambridge UK.

[Rover]

I guess it depends on how much of line pull you require, are you using a gin pole? how much weight? cantilever? how do you plan to attach it?

I use a 3000 lb Warn winch to bring my 30' tower down and up, but its a cantilever design with counterbalance.

 As far as the actual winch, I'm not familiar with KingOne.

[gsw999]

OK , its quite hard to "guesstimate " the weight etc , but I will definately be using a gin pole , which is approx 12-15 feet , for a 30-40 foot tower, I have read the Bergey manual on towers so Im pretty up on the guy ropes etc, I will also be using a strut??? basically a piece of 50mm tubing connecting the gin pole to the main tower at a 45 degree angle, hopefully this will strengthen it up a bit.

[hayfarmer]

I use a H.F. worm gear winch, about 20 bucks but its real cheap and  its all it can do to pull up a micro amtek on a 2 inch pipe around 28 feet.(lots of metal grindings)

am looking for a better one myself don't feel too comfortable when its going up or down,try to stay out of the kill zone<a href="http://" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://</a>

[electronbaby]

My advise is to try and look for one locally, either in a junk, or scrap yard. The ideal winch for your needs may be quite heavy to ship. Granted I do much larger towers often, but when I was fine tuning my winch arrangement, it took quite a bit of trial and error. Also, its a good idea to learn how to calculate the loads on your cables and rigging rather than taking a wild guess (even if its a rough calculation). This would add some safety factor to ensure no one got hurt. There are some very dangerous aspects of pulling up towers with winches and gin poles.  safety factors of 3:1 on your cable and winch are a good idea (WLL, not breaking strength).

The ideal winch will have quite a large spool capacity. Its hard to find a large spool and a low pull rating, so usually winches with large spools are rated over 10,000lbs capacity (for the increased cable size). I usually remove the large cable and put on (HUNDREDS of feet) much smaller stuff. you then can use a 2:1 (or 4:1 or 6:1) reduction to to pull the tower up. Its good to have a ground anchor below the end of the gin pole so you can anchor your rigging and get a nice straight pull to the vehicle.  

You may be fine pulling up a small tower occasionally with an electric winch, but the duty cycle imposed on the winch for a larger tower or continuous use is not good and it will fail in a short amount of time, trust me. I only use hydraulic winches for tower work now.

have fun

RoyR

[gsw999]

Thanks for the advice, will keep looking also gonna go to the local car scrapyard see if I can salvage one from a truck.

Gavin

[bob golding]

Thanks for the advice, will keep looking also gonna go to the local car scrapyard see if I can salvage one from a truck.

Gavin

hi gavin,
 i see you are in Cambridge UK. you could try mckays in east road. i got one from a similar place down here in Cornwall for £30.00 the other place to try is the scrapyard under  Newmarket road  railway bridge. nmr i think they are called at the moment. talk to Tony in the office and tell him bob sent you. if Tony isn't there  wait till he is. he will  sort you out.

[gsw999]

Thanks for the advice, will keep looking also gonna go to the local car scrapyard see if I can salvage one from a truck.

Gavin

hi gavin,
 i see you are in Cambridge UK. you could try mckays in east road. i got one from a similar place down here in Cornwall for £30.00 the other place to try is the scrapyard under  Newmarket road  railway bridge. nmr i think they are called at the moment. talk to Tony in the office and tell him bob sent you. if Tony isn't there  wait till he is. he will  sort you out.

cool thanks for that , spoke to one of my mates who is a mechanic and were going to have a " scrapyard day" where we go see if we can pick up some cool stuff, winch , some bearings and some lorry brake disks.

[scoraigwind]

I'd strongly recommend a rope hoist like this:
http://www.liftinggeardirect.co.uk/wire-rope-winches.html
of the Tirfor/Griphoist style. 

You can raise a ten footer on a thirty foot tower with an 800 kg rope hoist that is easily portable, slow and very controlled.  I usually pay about a hundred quid for one.  If in doubt about the load then get a bigger one.

Another source is http://www.aplifting.com/Contact.html although their web site is crap they are great to deal with on the phone.  Ask for an 800 kg Jet rope hoist.

The last thing you want for a simple lift is a fast and jerky power winch.

take care!

[gsw999]

I'd strongly recommend a rope hoist like this:
http://www.liftinggeardirect.co.uk/wire-rope-winches.html
of the Tirfor/Griphoist style. 

You can raise a ten footer on a thirty foot tower with an 800 kg rope hoist that is easily portable, slow and very controlled.  I usually pay about a hundred quid for one.  If in doubt about the load then get a bigger one.

Another source is http://www.aplifting.com/Contact.html although their web site is crap they are great to deal with on the phone.  Ask for an 800 kg Jet rope hoist.

The last thing you want for a simple lift is a fast and jerky power winch.

take care!

Thanks Hugh ,also thanks for writing your books and answering your emails , your a stand up guy

peace

[TomW]

I finally got a Jet Grip Hoist 3/4 Ton or 1500# in American. Very nice machine suggested by Hugh many times & places. Holds fast wherever you stop working the handle. No tricky cams, gears or stuff to manipulate. Very Portable. Just wish I had went up to the next bigger one but this one works fine on my stuff.

One lever goes in and one lever goes out just work the one you need.

I have used power winches and come alongs and vehicles but the Grip Hoist is the best most controlled puller. Plus you can use any length cable you need since it just pulls the cable through itself.

Tom

[Jon Miller]

Tifro which is a good way of lifting and lowering a tower but you will need a long gin pole or else your be only wanting to drop it once its broken.

Another option is a car which, 12 volts, will do the job and be a lot eiser.

[Hilltopgrange]

Check out a seller on ebay.co.uk called papko he is easy to deal with and stocks ex military gear, he always has tirfor type winches.

Russell

[DanB]

Winches can be really expensive.
For small/short towers with nothing more than a 10' turbine on the top I have used these a few times (they are about $25 from harbor freight)
http://www.harborfreight.com/2000-lb-capacity-geared-winch-5798.html
They work OK but the quality is low and I've had some trouble... I won't do it again.  But - with lots of grease and patience, and a good cordless drill with a half inch chuck, they work.  I cannot say 100% for sure... but looking at the pictures in the 'owners manual' for the Bergey XL1 tower kit (up to 100' in height) - it appears that they use this same inexpensive Chinese winch (honestly that surprises me)

This is a similar winch - but seemingly much higher quality and it will also work with a cordless drill:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=372&catname=winches

All that said - if you can find a 'bargain' on something better I would.  Usually when there is a tower project in my future, I start shopping for a bargain on something used.

And as TomW has pointed out - a grip hoist is a *really* nice way to go - and the tool is useful for lots of other stuff too so maybe a good investment.

[gsw999]

Thanks Dan , there seems to be a guy on ebay selling ex army stuff ( tough as nails ) so ill prob wait and try and pick up a deal off him, or pick up one of the ones Hugh mentioned earlier on in the post.

[gsw999]

Got a brand new winch ,pretty nice 1600kg lift 2500kg pull should do for my current projects.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400193944538

Pretty good price as well , turned up and seems to be good quality.

[Jon Miller]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370483913535&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

[gsw999]

That is a bit of a beast 3 ton , might get one eventually.

[Jon Miller]

It is a big one, at least as your turbines grow in size you wont need to buy a new winch 

Jonathan

[gsw999]

indeed , I have been playing around with my winch today , lots to learn , am starting easy have built a stupidly short tower for "practice purposes" and my plan is to gradually extend this.

[TomW]

indeed , I have been playing around with my winch today , lots to learn , am starting easy have built a stupidly short tower for "practice purposes" and my plan is to gradually extend this.

I fooled around with various towers, masts and poles figuring out tilt up devices. Lots better to mess up on a test rig than the real thing.


Just how I learned tilting up as a one man crew.


Be very careful with "bounce". The stress goes way up if you make sudden stops or starts. Probably can see 5 or 10X the static load.

Tom

[gsw999]

playing around with the tower yesterday was alot of fun , im going to extend the tower (its only 15 feet) , until I am happy with it , then I will pout the turbine on and see what happens, you can feel the weight of the thing and as you say you need to be so careful , it was two cranks on the winch , then check everything and keep going that way until its done.

[freejuice]

Hi Tom, Gavin,
  This is the grip hoist I use:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200419695_200419695

I have just about elminated bounce....I hate it too! It was a moment when I would tighten up!
I have a rope tied off to the tower, just below the blade swept area ,  the rope can easily touch the ground.
I then tie off to another length of rope about 200 feet long.

In the direction of tilt but out of the fall zone I use the ol pickup truck and have one of those cheap-o harbor freight snatch blocks rated for  ( I think about 6000 lbs), attached to the bumper I then lace the rope through the snatch block and run the length back towards the anchor point of my grip hoist.
 Also, I attach an inexpensive manual boat trailer winch to this anchor position. From here I can raise or lower the tower without all the walking involved and very little bounce.
 I started doing this when my gin pole went to 40 feet....It was a whole different animal when the gin pole was at 20 feet, it was much easier to tilt downward and kinda rough on tilt up...but with it being 40 feet long , the end of the gin pole probably raises about 4-5 feet off the ground before it begins to "toggle" over.
Likewise, the boat winch rope deal also cushions the "toggle point" on tilt up....it saves a lot of walking too...I can operate everything from one position....tightening one and loosening the other as needed.
 All the best,
 Gavin

[gsw999]

That is a beast of a winch , I take it your name is Gavin also !! not many of us around , I was quite anxious the first time I put a test tower up which was this weekend, but did it slow and steady and was very enjoyable, I let out a childish squeak when it went all the way up and stayed there.

lots of fun

peace

gavin

[freejuice]

Yep another Gavin here.
My mother was from the UK, She was in London during the thick of things.
 I don't think I ever remember another person with our name during the 1960's or 70's here in SC.
 However here lately I'm seeing more of it...it's not too popular yet but gaining. When I hear someone say the name I instinctively turn around to see who it is....but mostly it's a young mother talking to her child.

 
Yes I like the grip hoist.....kind of heavy with a  5/8 cable, but once everything is set up it pulls up a 65 foot lattice tower with a Dan B. designed 17 footer....nice and easy.
 There's probably no limit to what they can pull up it enough snatch block pulleys are used.....but that would require a lot more of working the handle

[gsw999]

sorry mate where is SC ??

The tower I started with was super short and didnt even have a gin pole so now I have to extend the tower and get the gin pole sorted.

a question , I was using the winch in the rain , would you advise spraying some lubricating stuff in there or using oil?

Thanks

[freejuice]

The upstate of South Carolina...Spartanburg....almost in the North-West corner.....groan... I wish I was in very most North West corner in our neighoboring Greenville County, it has some very good winds there according the govt...Very similar to what they have out west.
 However I could climp ( gulp) up my tower about 30 feet and easily see the Appalachian Mountains in North Carolina about 30 miles away.

The grip hoist I would just dry it out good....I don't think I would want lube on the cable at all. If you hoist is anything like mine its held together with a bunch of  8mm or 10mm socket head cap screws.
 You might could disassemble one side and re-grease the two needle bearings, taking care not to get grease anywhere else.

 The grip hoist can abe a bit busy inside, you you might want to snap a cell phone pic of it before you get to taking things out for a handy reference....
 All the best,
 the other gavin

[gsw999]

Thats cool, its funny how ever since I have had a wind turbine I really love crazy , windy weather, the crazier  the better .

The mountains are awesome , its pretty flat where I live with 1/2 a mile clear all round.