Author Topic: Anybody us a water tower?  (Read 7506 times)

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JMaris

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Anybody us a water tower?
« on: July 20, 2011, 08:52:02 PM »
Hey guys, I have a question. When I first got the wind energy gleam in my eye, I ran out and bought a used Rohn HDBX40 tower. Well... after doing some reading and researching, I realized it won't support a wind gen of any decent size (correct me if I am wrong please!). So, I am probably going to sell it and work on a new tower. Well, I might be able to get a used industrial water tower. The platform atop of the tower is about 12'x12' and about 55' high. It is built out of thick angle iron and the water tank on top of it is huge! I am thinking if I can get it, then I can use it as a base tower and build up from there. I know I have enough materials at my house to build it up to at least 70' probably a bit taller than that.

I was wondering if any of you guys have ever used an old water tower for your wind gens. If so, how did it work out for you? If no one has  used one before, do you guys think this is a good idea for a tower?

SparWeb

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2011, 03:00:02 PM »
I think you're going from under-kill to over-kill, maybe.

I've seen your questions on this and a couple of other threads, so I hope the replies don't come back too fractured.  It's best to start a new topic this way instead of getting an old topic to diverge.

The HDBX tower is the Rohn "heavy-duty" BX self-supporting tower, but it is only designed for antennas and other "flat-plate" loads.  The wind can do nasty things to antennas, and they get loaded up with ice in certain places, and civil engineers are used to working with those parameters.  The trouble you have is that a wind turbine doesn't only apply a wind load, it applies other mechanical loads to the tower, of a kind that are not considered in the typical "antenna" analysis.

Three main types of load:
1- Weight
2- Thrust
3- Gyroscopic



Every time that rotor changes direction, it wants to pitch up or down, due to the gyroscopic motion effect.  Try it with a bicycle wheel (if you didn't in school or have never heard of this).

If there is modest turbulence on your site, the gyroscopic loads could cause as much stress on the tower as the weight and thrust loads do.

A Rohn HDBX is actually almost good enough for all of these loads, but IMHO you must modify it to have a reasonable safety factor.  There must be at least 3 guy wires near the top to reduce the bending due to thrust to a level that the bending due to gyroscopic torque and weight (column buckling/crippling) cause it to fail.  I've see people skip the guys and put turbines on them anyway, but there's no guarantee that it will last for a long time.

The very POINT of having a wind turbine where it is, is to capture energy from STRONG wind.  Exposing a machine to that condition requires safety factors and confidence.

Depending on your site, you may need even more reinforcement than that.  The only way to know is to find out!
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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JMaris

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2011, 04:04:11 PM »
Yeah I am kind of going from one extreem to the other, but I am trying to use what is avaiable. I bought the hdbx40' for dirt cheap. When I bought it I figured, If it doesn't work, I can turn around and sell it for double what I paid for it easy. The water tower is out at the plant that I work at. It has been out of service for at least 20 years. I am trying to find out who in the investment recovery department I need to get a hold of to see about buying it. I should be able to get it fairly cheap... If I can get it for a decent price, I would much rather go overboard on an old tower that I know I can build up to at least 75' or 85' in the future than spend the same $ for a new tower that just fits my need now... Does that sound logical or am I running off on a tangent?

wpowokal

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2011, 08:02:26 PM »
Can you define "water tower" we speak different languages.
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TomW

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2011, 08:46:04 PM »
Can you define "water tower" we speak different languages.

Woohoo, 2 cultures separated by a common language.

And  24 hours on an airliner!

Wouldn't be the first time meanings of words were different.

Tom

JMaris

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2011, 06:03:20 PM »
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-california/BarstowOldWaterTower-500.jpg  

Similar to this but much bigger and made out of angle iron. Basically a tower with a water tank on top of it.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 06:28:37 PM by JMaris »

SparWeb

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2011, 01:00:32 AM »
I dunno....

It's like buying a box of pizza, and throwing it away because you only wanted the plastic thing in the middle.

Got a use for a big ugly water cistern?

Have you thought about how you would lower and disassemble that water tower? 
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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wpowokal

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 03:44:31 AM »
If it was steel and what I believe you people call a pumper tower then you it is a good choice.
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JMaris

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2011, 11:43:03 PM »
Spar, I can use the water tank for my house. I live out in the country and run off of a water well. I already have a 1550 gallon fresh water storage tank and if this tank checks out to be hole free, it will be used for the same... Or I might use it as a fish tank for my hydroponic greenhouse... Who knows. As I mentioned previously, the tower is made of angle iron and bolted together. It is at the plant that I work at and we have a 5ton, 15ton and 30 ton cranes that I am certified to use. If I end up being able to buy the tower, disassembley would consist of: taking it appart in sections, lowering sections to the ground, further dismanteling them, and loading them on a trailer. This will all have to be done after work hours.

JMaris

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2011, 11:53:15 PM »
 
This is as close to an exact replica as I can get. I would take an actual picture for you guys, but we are not allowed to have cameras inside the plant.   

 

silentblue1987

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 05:59:35 PM »
Sounds like an awesome tower and especially 50ft+ in height. That should get you plenty of wind if you take the tank down. The only concern is the turbulence from the platform may degrade power output, so even if you put a turbine up there you'd still have to mount it on an extra pole to escape the turbulence.

you might need a crane for maintenance :'(

artv

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 06:43:56 PM »
JMaris,...Hi , if I were in your shoes,...that tower,  that water tank, even the little shed , would all be in my yard!!...Don't pass this up.........you'll never forgive yourself...........go for it ....I wish I could have such an opportunity..........artv

lohearth

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 12:43:43 PM »
Put a pole in the center that you could raise and lower and maintenance would be a breeze compared to raising a tall tower.

Scott

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2011, 10:50:23 PM »
It'd be a big project, but I could imagine a pole that retracted down into the tower and cranked up.  Now that would be cool!

12AX7

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2011, 11:48:52 PM »
I can't imagine the amount of work it would take to dismantle, transport and reassemble it.  I would guess that a concrete base/pad would be needed,  another major project.

I would think you'll need a devoted work crew!    You're talking something more than a few cases of beer!

Hope you're owed MANY favors!

ax7

WINDMILLDAVE

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2011, 10:36:47 PM »
  Hi..  I buy and sell farm type water pumping windmills.  I happen to have a very heavy duty 40' Aermotor windmill tower with 3" angle iron legs.  Would that work for you?  It originall had a 12' dia wheel and head  on top.

Dave..

12AX7

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2011, 11:21:09 PM »
  Hi..  I buy and sell farm type water pumping windmills.  I happen to have a very heavy duty 40' Aermotor windmill tower with 3" angle iron legs.  Would that work for you?  It originall had a 12' dia wheel and head  on top.

Dave..

I suppose you don't live just down the road from me..

ax7

WINDMILLDAVE

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Re: Anybody us a water tower?
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2011, 11:39:37 PM »
Can you drive a pair of 6L6's?

I live in SE Nebr.