Author Topic: First build (Read 5334 times)

SparWeb · « **Reply #33 on:** September 09, 2020, 01:27:14 AM »

That looks like progress to me!

I think I used a bearing just like that one, once!

GreenTeam · « **Reply #34 on:** September 09, 2020, 01:48:30 AM »

Yes, the bearings i found at a store called lees electronics. for like eight CAD i think. They are for 3d printers they told me. But, i noticed two teensy bolts on them and realized i can bypass the mounting hubs entirely ( they cost ten bucks a mount hub! )

What i have not figured out yet is how to drill perfectly straight with out a drill press. But,i think i just may build my drill press since i got ahold of the .stl files to 3d print my drill press. Gawd i luuuvs my printer now

GreenTeam · « **Reply #35 on:** September 15, 2020, 09:20:17 PM »

Finally got magnet rotors built and i admit,takes me a bit to get traction. After getting through mental paralysis and all. Magnet rotors will be a cake walk for sizes up to 200 mm diameter.

My 12 coil design and my 6 coil design.

Going to bench mark and document the machine with a single side magnet rotor. Magnet dimensions of 25mmx11mmx6mm are used for both rotors. Both rotors are hand designed in 3d cad modelling software, and printed out in 3d. My angles are 100 percent dead on. Air gap will be sub 1 mm . Backside has a steel plating also.

GreenTeam · « **Reply #36 on:** September 21, 2020, 09:16:36 PM »

both stators done!! one looks very promising as all coils in one phase perfectly line up with magnets.
and also figured out how to mount the bearings.

but my six coil design only has two magnets aligned per phase

[ Specified attachment is not available ].

i think now its time to build a full wave bridge rectifier circuit. and a mount for the pmgs. with a dc motor with speed control to start benchmarking and make a gragh of the electrical output.

And after that , phase two starts.

kitestrings · « **Reply #37 on:** September 23, 2020, 01:46:21 PM »

Looks like you're having fun.

The 12-coil layout looks right to me: 12-coils, 16-pole (32 mags, 16 pairs), but for the 6-coil layout I would think you'd want 8-poles (16 mag, 8 pairs). It's hard to tell from the picture what you have there, but something doesn't look right.

JW · « **Reply #38 on:** September 23, 2020, 05:12:40 PM »

This is a really cool post. Its this kind of posts that I wanted to archive when I bought Fieldlines You guys are really doing great.

mab · « **Reply #39 on:** September 24, 2020, 04:02:41 AM »

Both look ok to me:
16 poles, 12 coils, 4coils aligned with magnets

8 poles, 6 coils, 2 coils aligned with magnets.

GreenTeam · « **Reply #40 on:** September 25, 2020, 03:11:30 AM »

Quote from: kitestrings on September 23, 2020, 01:46:21 PM

Looks like you're having fun.

The 12-coil layout looks right to me: 12-coils, 16-pole (32 mags, 16 pairs), but for the 6-coil layout I would think you'd want 8-poles (16 mag, 8 pairs). It's hard to tell from the picture what you have there, but something doesn't look right.

i am having fun! Thank you o/

Quote from: kitestrings on September 23, 2020, 01:46:21 PM

Looks like you're having fun.

The 12-coil layout looks right to me: 12-coils, 16-pole (32 mags, 16 pairs), but for the 6-coil layout I would think you'd want 8-poles (16 mag, 8 pairs). It's hard to tell from the picture what you have there, but something doesn't look right.

There is eight magnets yes, and i think what does not look correct is that the center hole of the six coil stator is not dead center. And its kind of oblong also. I also discovered today that i messed up with the N S N S arrangement on one eight magnet rotor. They were glued with gorilla glue gel and coated eith epoxy resin after. Its gonna be a mess of a repair

.

Now, i did build some big stuff so far, but , im really intrigued with building micro scale Ax-Fx PMG. I did tell my better half that i can smoke the infinite air turbine hands down. And finish with less weight, higher watt out put, and with less wind.

Got my work cut out considering the most electrical theory i had was power has a + and a -, till i learned about AC.......and light bulbs burn watts ....i thunk

SparWeb · « **Reply #41 on:** September 25, 2020, 08:55:44 AM »

The best school is the school you build yourself, wherever you choose to build it.
From here it's fun to watch.

Hey next time you make transparent stators, put some LED'S inside to blink as they run

GreenTeam · « **Reply #42 on:** September 27, 2020, 01:19:07 AM »

Quote from: SparWeb on September 25, 2020, 08:55:44 AM

The best school is the school you build yourself, wherever you choose to build it.
From here it's fun to watch.

Hey next time you make transparent stators, put some LED'S inside to blink as they run

i would do that if i build DC generators......

MattM · « **Reply #43 on:** September 27, 2020, 06:59:08 PM »

Why does your LED care if its AC or DC?

SparWeb · « **Reply #44 on:** September 28, 2020, 12:39:15 AM »

Just to expand a little on Matt's reply, yes, the LED's can take AC just fine.

LED's are quite tolerant of all kinds of garbage power, as long as you protect them well. They'll pass the AC current when it suits their polarity, and won't when it doesn't. There's the question of limiting the current, which is normally solved by soldering a resistor in line with one leg of the LED. The rating of the resistor is chosen the peak voltage the lines will carry. This is easily looked up when you know what to look for.

I did exactly this for a class demo to some elementary school kids.

dhrade · « **Reply #45 on:** September 28, 2020, 01:10:29 PM »

Hi, a query, the base where the magnets are placed must necessarily be metal or it can be wooden

Mary B · « **Reply #46 on:** September 28, 2020, 01:17:41 PM »

Light emitting DIODE, they will rectify AC! At least to a point.

GreenTeam · « **Reply #47 on:** September 29, 2020, 10:33:25 AM »

where the magnets are placed by scientific literature, reads that magnets are quite often placed on the same metal that makes up a stator. So electrical steel SHOULD/MIGHT return best results.

But, a fun little experiment tonight with magnet stacking!!!
One magnet

Two magnets

Three magnets

Four magnets

Each time was magnet placed under neath tje diy field line viewer for ten seconds. opinions?!?

kitestrings · « **Reply #48 on:** September 29, 2020, 01:27:21 PM »

".... magnets are quite often placed on the same metal that makes up a stator."

I don't think that is right. The magnets need to be on metal/iron to complete a flux path between magnets. The stator should have little, if any, metal in it aside from what might be needed to fasten it. Ideally any metal would be outside of the magnets, and any fringe area, where a magnet might be pulled toward it nd create unwanted cogging, or eddy's if non-ferrous.

Neat trick with the magnet stacking. ~ks

GreenTeam · « **Reply #49 on:** September 29, 2020, 05:19:51 PM »

Quote from: MattM on September 27, 2020, 06:59:08 PM

Why does your LED care if its AC or DC?

the light emitting diode doesnt care that much. But, maybe i can RGB the crap out of it!!!

GreenTeam · « **Reply #50 on:** October 01, 2020, 04:38:05 AM »

Drilled four screw holes in my end plates that contain the mounted bearing/mounting hub and installed four metal screws about 30 mm long. I also used for plastic spacers from the hoverboard wiring, the wiring insulators! now the stator is ready mate with the 16 magnet rotor!!!

Next is measuring out the axle length.

Stay Tuned!

GreenTeam · « **Reply #51 on:** October 01, 2020, 11:18:28 PM »

I haz a ?
TO use a multimeter, which i have two craptastic meters.
One is a digital Craftsman bought on sale.
And the other, a analogue, very craptastic.
Both from the very craptastic Crappytire store.
Are they both to be hooked up in series to get the proper output of the current produced?
Right now, on a VERY sloppy build, I hit an amazing 4 Volts!
Is there a way to use the multimeters off hand to get the power output of my little ax fx pmg?

JW · « **Reply #52 on:** October 02, 2020, 12:41:12 AM »

Yes

Use a Kill A Watt meter.

GreenTeam · « **Reply #53 on:** October 02, 2020, 03:46:44 AM »

Quote from: JW on October 02, 2020, 12:41:12 AM

Yes

Use a Kill A Watt meter.

what is this kill a watt meter?

JW · « **Reply #54 on:** October 02, 2020, 10:06:31 AM »

When you work with these alternators the output is measured in watts. It goes back to ohms law https://ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator

Im pretty sure its wired in series like you were asking about.

GreenTeam · « **Reply #55 on:** October 03, 2020, 01:33:34 AM »

what i am having issues with is the translation. when i hooked up my digital meter and set it to 200 ma , it read something like 25. what does that mean? Voltage at 3-4V and amp reading 25 with set at 200Ma?
how do i translate this data?
so thats 3-4 volts using
0.33 mm wire
100 turns
12 coils
3 phases
16 magnets x 1 rotor
no backplate just a magnetic air circuit. i may tear it down and print another magnet rotor.
once these two alternators are done, thats the end of the line. the 10mm wide magnets are used. Next will be onto

20x15x3 mm magnets. Which, i thunk i may have about 200+ of them. I wish i could identify them so i can so some mathematical modelling to figure out how much magnet wire to use for flux capture. But all the formulas online expect something.. .could use a hint or two:p

But printing a second magnet rotor for my 6 coil model. And to figure out how to extract more power from my 12 coil design

Mary B · « **Reply #56 on:** October 03, 2020, 01:47:42 PM »

Without steel magnet rotors you are not getting anywhere near the magnetic flux that is available from those magnets.

bigrockcandymountain · « **Reply #57 on:** October 03, 2020, 09:17:28 PM »

How are you testing the 25 milliamps? Are you using a digital multimeter?
If so, you usually need to move the red test lead to the amps plugin. Then test across the dc side of the rectifier. Maybe that is what you are doing, but i would think you would be getting more than 25 milliamps.

SparWeb · « **Reply #58 on:** October 05, 2020, 12:32:10 AM »

What I did too many times while starting out in electronics and learning how to use my Radio Shack cheap multimeter, was that I'd blow the fuse on the ammeter. I wouldn't even realize it until later, while getting frustrated about something not seeming to work. If that hasn't happened to you, then the other thing you could be seeing it the maximum value allowed on that scale - it doesn't print a higher number even if there's much more current to be measured.

One of the reasons cheap digital multimeters (DMM's) often have only 25mA scales and no scales higher is because a lot of microcircuitry can tolerate this current at any voltage without damage and it probably doesn't even hurt you if you pass it through your fingers so everything's safe. The other reason to have this is that there's a class of instrumentation sensor that uses a scale of 0 to 25 mA for its scale of signals into the measurement terminal, making any DMM capable of troubleshooting these instruments. Pressure sensors and stuff like that.

What you're doing is probably different from what's done with those sensors, so you'll have to be careful with your 25mA ammeter test circuit on the DMM when you use it. Your alternator can probably push a few amps when spun up to a decent speed, which would be many times higher than your DMM can tolerate.

With 3-phase outputs from your alternator, you can hook up some resistors across the 3 pairs of leads (in a triangle) and then:
1) see that it works
2) feel that the resistors get hot but not too hot
3) measure voltage across the leads of a resistor
4) Lastly, connect the ammeter in series with a resistor to measure the current that way.

Done in that order, you will be able to safely approach a set of resistors that demonstrate how much power your PMA can produce, and not melt anything while you do it.

I would suggest starting with a trio of 100 ohm resistors, as fat as you can get them. After you measure what that does, you can make some judgments about what happens when you swap those for smaller values, eg 25 ohms, and so on.

JW · « **Reply #59 on:** October 05, 2020, 11:12:28 PM »

Ive had this meter (DVOM) since 1991 sent it back to Fluke once for recalibration. I had damaged it using some foil paper to correct a blown fuse.

heres a picture of the plugs Sparweb was talking about.

Heres a picture of the fuses

The DVOM (digital volt ohm meter) powered up and ready to go on ohms

We can get pretty weird about our meters (able to trust them), I just put a new battery in mine (lasts forever) and my back up meter is a OTC DVOM I cant find at the moment

Scruff · « **Reply #60 on:** October 06, 2020, 09:17:25 PM »

Quote from: JW on October 05, 2020, 11:12:28 PM

We can get pretty weird about our meters (able to trust them), I just put a new battery in mine (lasts forever) and my back up meter is a OTC DVOM I cant find at the moment

I use a reference meter (fluke 87V) to meter & calibrate my meters. When two agree they are both right.
I find it cheaper to buy Chinese Domestic Market Flukes than calibrations. If I need a cal. cert I buy a new meter, it usually tells me there's nothing wrong with the old one.

GreenTeam · « **Reply #61 on:** October 17, 2020, 05:34:49 PM »

i think i will have to find fuses for my craftsman dmm maybe. Also, i have decided that the 6 coil design is a dead end. The 12 coil i believe has some potential to coax out of it. To decide if its a coil number issue , i am doing a really slick 9 coil that has been laid out in a 3d printed mold and coil formers. Does anyone have any advice or pointers for me on making stator laminate cores or something for some extra oooomph?!?
The magnet rotor 25 mm x 10 mm x 9 mm on a 2 mm steel back plate. ( i may build another rotor for this one.

The stator during soldering processes.

And some particulars of the build
so far.

GreenTeam · « **Reply #62 on:** December 02, 2020, 03:10:41 PM »

I present to you the DEAF TURBINE VERS 3.01 REV B ( DeeLishus Epic Axial Flux )
Three phase six coil
Stator is five mm thick
Coils are 90 turns 0.5 mm wire
Magnets are 20x15x3

The purpose of this little genset is to be a emergency cell phone charger. I suspect it may be able to run up to 2 or 3 phones.

It's not turning the smoothest right now ,
But, in my defence I have never held a soldering iron either lol.
And didn't know what axial or radial meant either.
This is going to be my tex energy infinite air killer .
In about three or four more gnerations.

Bruce S · « **Reply #63 on:** December 02, 2020, 04:32:56 PM »

Congrats on the build
Looks interesting.
What type of blades are you going to use?

Cheers
Bruce S

kitestrings · « **Reply #64 on:** December 02, 2020, 07:06:52 PM »

Yes, congrats. Looking good.

You have, "Three phase six coil", but it looks like nine, which would probably work best. Have you spun it up at all? Best. ~ks

GreenTeam · « **Reply #65 on:** December 02, 2020, 07:39:26 PM »

Yes hand spun it hits four volts +.
Gonna put a power drill on it lol and hope I don't loose a tooth from flying magnets lol. They were gorilla glued .
Btw its totally not the previous ones I did . The previous ones failed and I'm considering tearing them apart to reclaim the wires if I can

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Author Topic: First build (Read 5334 times)