Author Topic: Poll; should we change forum software (Read 1306 times)

fungus · « **on:** December 15, 2007, 12:59:52 PM »

Been discussion on changing the forum software to something else at http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/12/12/22558/691

So .. Poll on the right hand side.. Keep it or change it?

fcfcfc · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2007, 07:59:24 AM »

Hi: It depends.. change it to what.. all software has its bugs and limitations.. you would have to do a complete software eval and look at the options that are out there because software selection is more driven by the positives of functionality than the negatives of bugs.. and perhaps most of all they tend to like what they are used to...

finnsawyer · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2007, 08:19:22 AM »

Apparently nobody likes Scoop even though they are used to it. The real key in making the changes I think is to come up with a list of requirements and then go to the developers. As someone who has done a fair amount of programming I know that it is quite possible to do things in a different more rational way. When DanB decides to ask for input I'll give him mine.

Warrior · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2007, 08:34:33 AM »

The board is great as is. I specially like the option to add favorite posts to your hotlist; something I haven't seen on other boards.

The only thing I would add is an editing tool, to edit your post after its been posted. I make mistakes sometimes and find them after it has been posted.

Warrior

finnsawyer · « **Reply #4 on:** December 15, 2007, 08:45:54 AM »

"The only thing I would add is an editing tool, to edit your post after its been posted. I make mistakes sometimes and find them after it has been posted."

You can't allow that. That would make the Board susceptible to too much mischief. If you want to maintain a proper archival history, you can not allow editing, except perhaps for the Diaries. If you mess up, the record must stay. Tough, but that's it, and I mess up enough. I accept it, warts and all. After all, we're trying to progress here, and so what if we got it wrong at some time. As long as we get it right in the end. Of course, then you die. Shame.

fungus · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2007, 08:51:44 AM »

One option on some forums is to allow editing before replies, which imho would be effective for correcting typos etc that you realise just after posting but stopping mischief.

finnsawyer · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2007, 09:27:05 AM »

The software could prevent a posting and flag the misspelled word. That would not stop misapplied words, though. This would be my requirement on my site. If you SOBs can't spell, bug off, but our hosts might see it otherwise. I know I'm a hard-a** in this area, but I sincerely believe that if we don't maintain some reasonable standards, we will not be able to communicate down the road, after my generation (i.e. before PC) leaves the scene.

Opera House · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2007, 09:55:28 AM »

A change I would make is to have the Dairy as owner posting only and allow editing. Then it would serve as an informational how to. Now it is just a meaningless posting area.

TomW · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2007, 10:05:39 AM »

Opera;

Dairy as owner posting only and allow editing.

All a Diary poster need do is request read only be applied and it would be so as soon as I saw it at least. Scoop is not likely to be made to do it itself, tho. Not sure on the editing bit under Scoop.

Cheers.

TomW

Tritium · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2007, 10:16:35 AM »

I like vBulletin software myself. A lot of the boards I visit use it, cnczone and candlepowerforums to name a couple. All software is buggy at times though.

Thurmond

DamonHD · « **Reply #10 on:** December 15, 2007, 10:29:22 AM »

A typical and sensible system behaviour is to allow editing of posts by the user for a limited time, which enabled embarrassing typos to be fixed but prevents the wholesale rewriting of history.

Rgds

Damon

scorman · « **Reply #11 on:** December 15, 2007, 10:33:13 AM »

The greenpowertalk forum allows editing existing posts, but with a time limit:

http://www.greenpowertalk.org/

it could easily be set to a two days limit or whatever, by the owner, to allow formatting or spelling edits, new links etc

I have a few complaints there, but it is mostly with their half baked IM communications.

They have a means to see who is live online, send an internal IM, or send an internal email ( no real addy ID disclosed).

they also allow attachments such as xcel files, etc

A feature that I do like about the existing system here, is that you can edit a photo/chart etc, at a later time and substitute it under the same arbitrary name and it is then linked as the current view for an older post

Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

BTW, I find it humorous that the post of mine that got inadvertently deleted, got a response on the board by TomW titled "SCorman" which now has 33 hits ...AND I didn't even contribute!!!!

Actually, I had only seen it a few days later when I saw my name pop up on "recent activity" and then I reposted ...luckily I hadn't shut down the puter that day and could go backwards enough screens to find the original text, once I saw it had vanished.

rmiller021 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 15, 2007, 10:58:40 AM »

Just set it up to track revisions.

And allow only x% and x number of edits.

Adding a wiki i think would also benefit the community.

TheCasualTraveler · « **Reply #13 on:** December 15, 2007, 11:49:53 AM »

I don't know that much about forums so I'm not sure about changes. I did look at that greenpowertalk forum someone posted and it looked nice enough, maybe an improvement. What I would love to see is a larger, more organized, easier to navigate database of information. I get frustrated looking for answers only to be directed to thread after thread that weave in and out and all around the topic and wondering where the answer is. I would like to see 2 things. A much larger FAQ area that gives accurate answers to specific questions and not one that directs you to a thread. 2nd, a projects area covering every size and shape wind generator (and other projects) where folks could submit their project. There could be a format for submitting covering everything from geographic location to # of turns wire. Newbies could simply pick the project to copy that they think fits them and you guys wouldn't have to hear, "I have 5 big magnets, what size coils should I make?" I know that ALL the information the newbie needs is in Otherpower, but finding it? There is so much valuable information here contributed by some very generous folks and organizing it would be awesome. JMHO and if nothing changes I still consider myself fortunate to have this tool.

wooferhound · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2007, 02:15:08 PM »

""flag the misspelled word. That would not stop misapplied words, though. This would be my requirement on my site. If you SOBs can't spell, bug off, but our hosts might see it otherwise. I know I'm a hard-a** in this""

I thought that misspelling was a bad thing on this forum and showed a lack of intelligence. But I have come completely around and am very tolerant of bad spelling. I have come to realize that some very intelligent people can't spell. Since this is a quite international forum I find that many NonEnglish speakers are asking questions using technical English words that may be unfamiliar to them.

I try to overlook the mispellings and broken english to understand the question and offer some help.

wooferhound · « **Reply #15 on:** December 15, 2007, 02:40:20 PM »

The Software was changed 4½ years ago in June 2003

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/6/6/15031/59794

I really like the forum software that puts messages with new comments at the top of the list. Any message can become active again if comments are being added to it. Some messages even end up perpetual with that system. Each message has a 'Read New Posts' button that is real helpful.

methanolcat · « **Reply #16 on:** December 15, 2007, 02:50:27 PM »

I think the forum works pretty well, easy to navigate(I don't see any problem there). As far as typo's go, there is a preview button before posting and people still post with mistakes and I don't think that will ever change.

I have been locked out from posting a couple times, something to do with too many replies in a short period of time, but it wasn't the end of the world for me.

I have checked out other forums, as I'm sure many have and I think they all have good points and bad points to them, although if "scoop" is old I have to say that I think this is the best forum on the net that I have come across by a large margin, JMO.

As far as picture size goes, I think the limits set here are fine and doesn't hurt picture quality. I'm sure I speak for more than just myself here when I say there is still a lot of people still using dial-up (not my choice my only alternative is satellite, $$ big bucks $$) There is NO other option for some of us country folk at this time.

All in all, I love this site along with the users who make it a fun and learning experience. If the moderators decide to change I'm here for the duration either way even if it makes it hard for me to use.

methanolcat

claude · « **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2007, 03:14:53 PM »

I have tried this a while ago, see http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/1/30/94043/9642 . The feedback I received made me realize the fact that this board should not change at all. This board is all about information and this is what lures us here. And this is all I'm seeking for.

Over the past two years I broke my mousewheel reading this board but it was all worth it. I have learned a lot here. And I still have years of reading ahead to get a bigger picture.

Claude

commanda · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2007, 03:22:15 PM »

In terms of basic functionality, I think the board is fantastic just the way it is.

Hotlist, recent activity, new replies to your comments, the diary, photo uploads, all great features not generally available with other fora software.

As for editing, I agree that re-writing history is generally a bad idea. There's too much of this in the world already, especially on TV.

If I was going to change anything, I'd add a tutorial section, possibly with comments disabled. Flux's Matching the Load, and my led series, both jump to mind as first candidates. I seem to recall our hosts had a collection of basic FAQ's, that should also be dropped in such a section.

Just my 2.2 cents worth (includes 10% GST)

Amanda

electronbaby · « **Reply #19 on:** December 15, 2007, 03:50:51 PM »

I agree with Amanda. I have no problems with the current board (except being guilty of not posting enough).

I think its fine the way it is.

Roy R

electrondady1 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2007, 03:57:05 PM »

please ,just keep it the way it is !!!!

david anderson · « **Reply #21 on:** December 15, 2007, 04:58:35 PM »

It seems to me that the biggest problem with using scoop on this site is that few of its features are actually used. Scoop's big selling point is the user moderation, but there is no voting about which posts get published, no rating of comment (though it is turned on) and no impact of having good karma (people with a good record get to go troll hunting).

Scoop also isn't really under active development. Lots of sites are doing things with it, but they pay to get special modules developed.

As was said before, almost any software has its bugs. If all you want ios the forum features, there are lots of options. If you like some of the additional features like diaries and polls, you get a lot fewer choices. If you want good community software, without community moderation, easy setup and active development, you might want to give drupal a serious look.

If it was me, I wouldn't change it. Creating working archives of what is currently there would be a major headache.

As for those of you with spelling problems, might I suggest that you give the Firefox browser a try? It has on-the-fly spell checking in the text fields in the forms.

fungus · « **Reply #22 on:** December 15, 2007, 05:00:50 PM »

david; They did turn on all the features at first but found it too huge a server load, they had to strip all the features out to let the server handle it - I've been told.

david anderson · « **Reply #23 on:** December 15, 2007, 05:27:16 PM »

I can believe that they had them all turned on, but they didn't need all those features anyway and that's the point. Scoop is overkill. Even the features that are still on are barely even used. When was the last time you saw anyone vote on a comment?

The real question is whether it is worth the pain to change it?

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #24 on:** December 15, 2007, 06:01:26 PM »

Well, I stirred up the hive, I'll admit it.

I do think it is interesting to read all the responses. I was surprised to find I am in the minority on this issue and most people like things just the way they are. Rest assured you can expect far less complaining from yours truly on this subject in the future.

A few points before I go...

After reading the responses here, I have come to a realization that this is primarily an information-based forum. Perhaps it is OK to not have bells, whistles, smileys, and 1.2 megapixel pictures on a site that is primarily about sharing ideas which are often technical in nature (though a three-minute grace period to edit posts would be nice).

Perhaps changing things would even involve a certain dumbing-down of the readership and keep our highly paid editor's nose to the grindstone even more than it currently is, deleting posts. Scoop is certainly a challenging software to use, especially in posting pictures. Maybe leaving it the way it is keeps out the low-brows who can't be bothered to learn HTML.

Upon reflection, I think my comparing this site to social networking sites was a bad idea. The purpose and focus of those sites is different. I was going for more of a sense of community here, which I now realize is not the goal here at all, but rather the sharing of information.

.

.

.

I think I just had an epiphany. The guys who run this site drive model As and run antique steam boilers. I admire that aspect of our hosts and have failed to respect that vision in all my complaining. Perhaps slow change is best and I do feel a little guilty now for stirring up trouble, but I learned something in all of this if it means anything.

ArmedAndDangerous · « **Reply #25 on:** December 15, 2007, 06:41:41 PM »

Sorry, but scoop really is a horrible forum software. There is a reason you will find it almost nowhere else on the internet - it just plain sucks. It is entirely inferior to modern forum software such as Vbulletin and it's clones. It would be really easy to change over to one of the newer, better systems, and there are even free versions available. They're faster, easier to navigate, have many, many more useful features, and much, MUCH better support. Scoop is horribly outdated.

Seriously, look at any other popular forum, you won't see this software there.

gizmo · « **Reply #26 on:** December 15, 2007, 07:17:32 PM »

I think leave it as it is.

The forum code I used at TheBackShed.com is called WebWiz, and ASP based system with a bucket load of features. But most of these features are turned off, they either use too much bandwidth or dont improve the expierence for my forum members.

I migrated over to WebWiz a couple of years ago from my own home written forum software. So now I need to keep a link to the old forum as well as the new WebWiz forum, just like the Fieldlines site keeps a link to their old forums, there is too much handy reference material to simply close it off forever. Since I installed WebWize, the developer has released several upgraded versions with extra features, but I've modified my older copy to suit my requirements, so I cant upgrade without "breaking" the changes I've made. I'm stuck with my version of WebWize, but thats fine, it works.

If the fieldlines crew move over to a new forum package, then they will need to add a link back to this Scoop forum. Searching through 3 forums will be a pain.

The Scoop system may be old, but its fast and reasonably reliable. Most people dont really care about the fancy features, bells and whistles. They just want to read the posts and look at the pictures.

If its not broken, dont fix it.

Glenn

david anderson · « **Reply #27 on:** December 15, 2007, 07:46:46 PM »

You are correct, scoop is horrible forum software . . . because it is not omtended to be forum software!

But on the point that it is not popular, you are just plain wrong. Some of the biggest and most popular political discussion sites (on all sides) out there use it. The daily kos, redstate, booman, european tribune, grist, oceana are not exactly a bunch of small sites.

The biggest reason that scoop isn't used more is that you need root access on your machine to properly install it. No shared servers for scoop users.

Scoop does a lot of things that forum software can't. The question is, do you need what scoop can do? Otherpower really doesn't. The next question is, do you hate it enough to go through the pain of changing, because it ain't all that easy to change without killing off the last few years of work that everyone has put into it.

kurt · « **Reply #28 on:** December 15, 2007, 07:59:05 PM »

if we could just fix the top of the hour bug i would be happy that is really the only thing that really bothers me about this site.

gizmo · « **Reply #29 on:** December 15, 2007, 10:04:50 PM »

"As for those of you with spelling problems, might I suggest that you give the Firefox browser a try"

I use IESpell, a free plug in for IE browsers. We even installed it on all the PCs at my workplace. After you type your text, you just right click and select "Check Spelling", easy as.

http://www.iespell.com/

Glenn

elvin1949 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 15, 2007, 10:24:07 PM »

Woof

Well said.

later

Elvin

nobicus · « **Reply #31 on:** December 16, 2007, 01:53:23 AM »

If it aint broke don't fix it!!

Drawbar · « **Reply #32 on:** December 16, 2007, 05:22:06 AM »

I prefer Vbulletin as most forums I frequent use it, and its nice to bounce between them with ease. I have not spent a lot of time on this site, and if I did I probably would understand how to post a picture and that kind of stuff. It really doesn't matter to me if you change it or not, but to be honest with you, I think it does keep people from coming here.

In some ways that is good, it keeps out the riff-raff and keeps the people like me, who are truly here to learn and participate, here. A better way of saying that is, I'll deal with Scoop Software because the info here is good. Still I am afraid some other good people are put off by the goofy software and that this site would be better overall if more people were on here...people who don't care for the set-up.

As a side note, one site I visit has a 30 minute edit time on posts for the reasons many people on here mentioned. I think that is reasonable. As for the spelling, I use Firefox as a browser and it automatically puts a red line under any word that I mistype or misspell. Right clicking gives me the right spelling, and left clicking puts the right spelling onto this current software. I never look at misspellings as a persons intellect level. I type fast and often mispell words myself. In the hurry to get our points across, I think we all do this. I do encourage people not to use abbreviations as in text messages and whatnot. SIL could be sister in law, or son-in-law. I just try to get my point across by typing the whole thing so there is no confusion.

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Author Topic: Poll; should we change forum software (Read 1306 times)