Author Topic: Solar electric generating system using mirrors  (Read 3776 times)

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terryf

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Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« on: July 09, 2004, 08:21:27 AM »
I'm looking at setting up a solar system using reflective mirrors to super heat water to run a steam generator. Has anyone out there done anything like this on a small scale? I have information on several large-scale projects both in Europe and the US. I have 40 acres in Nevada high desert to set up this system and looking for info.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 08:21:27 AM by (unknown) »

wooferhound

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2004, 08:39:53 AM »
I see all the time where people coat an old Satellite dish in aluminum foil to focus the energy to a small point. Then there are many methods to get the energy from there.


The problem with mirrors is that you really need to track the sun and it starts to get complex.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 08:39:53 AM by wooferhound »

wooferhound

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2004, 09:30:55 AM »
Here are some more links to systems that use mirrors


1000 kw solar furnace in France

http://www.imp.cnrs.fr/foursol/1000_en.shtml


Cooking with Parabolic Reflectors

http://ashokk_3.tripod.com/solar4.htm


"Solar Two" solar Concentrator

http://ucdcms.ucdavis.edu/solar2/index.html


Parabolic solar Trough

http://www.solarserver.de/lexikon/parabolrinnenkraftwerk-e.html

http://www.industrialsolartech.com/abttrghs.htm

« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 09:30:55 AM by wooferhound »

JW

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2004, 09:55:01 AM »
Terry f,


 I have done some intial research on this topic. In my opinion the large dish style of the old sat recivers, is the most user-frendly option. From what I have read the focus of such a dish should be aimed at a large aluminum casting with stainless or copper tubes casted into it. Placed at the focal location of the dish. An example of casting size(rough) would be about 14in diameter and like 4in thick. Make sure this casting is dark in color or black. As for the mirroring of the dish itself many things can be used. The get extreme reflection on the dish, use a second surface mirroring process. second surface mirroring basically means the silver is plated on top of the glass or substraight material, which can be paint. connecting two dishes in series could lead to some serious steam output. The down side is the second surface mirror technique, it reflects best because it has no coating, but tarnishes or is damaged by rain. Once you have the knowledge to do this type of redox plating, you will find it can be done onsite, pretty cheaply. But I want to emphasize it is high maintence. Most likely an inferior reflector substrate with a coating will be better.


I think Windstuff Ed is working on a 1000watt solar system.


JW

« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 09:55:01 AM by JW »

hvirtane

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2004, 12:46:57 PM »
Just a few days ago wrote a letter to a discussion list. As follows:


----


Subject: Re: Solar-Power small engine proposed

From: hvirtane@cc.jyu.fi

Date: Sat, July 3, 2004 2:15 am

To: solarcooking-l@igc.topica.com


I've been as well thinking

that a small cheap solar engine is

really the engine, which is needed.


I'm still thinking that even

a stirling engine is possible to

make cheaply...


1)

But my first candidate

for such a cheap solar

engine is to use the solar power

to pump water up

and take the power out

by putting water down through

a small water wheel.


Such a solar machine even exists

made in Denmark.

Using 16 square meter

solar collectors it

can produce about one kWh energy

in a day as the water

pumped up.


http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~hvirtane/waterpower/steampump1.jpg


There is a link for that picture

of that machine made in Denmark

included in this post

in a discussion at the 'otherpower'

discussion board,

where I'm introducing

my own ideas for cheap solar pumps:


http://www.fieldlines.com/comments/2003/5/16/12629/6312/5?mode=alone;showrate=1#5


2)

My next candidate is to

use solar mirrors to generate steam

to run a small steam turbine.


My basic ideas concerning that concept are here:

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/6/26/10248/0825


I've made one experimental tiny steam turbine

using a coffee maker to produce the power

to make the steam.

I'm trying to arrange some time

to develop the idea further.


3)

There are maybe some possibilities

to make stirling engines simple.

One of the best ideas I have seen is here:

http://www.emachineshop.com/engine/


I would be really happy,

if some people would like

any of these ideas

to develop them further.


With best regards,


Hannu Virtanen

hvirtane@cc.jyu.fi

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~cooker/

« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 12:46:57 PM by hvirtane »

Chagrin

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2004, 03:08:33 PM »
caswellplating.com sells a simple chrome plating kit that can essentially be brushed on to any metal surface. Might be a good idea for a situation like this and not too pricy.


http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/plugnplate.htm

« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 03:08:33 PM by Chagrin »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2004, 04:08:52 PM »
Paraboloids (parabolas spun around the axis to make a doubly-curved surface) require continuous aiming.  They make a very hot point focus, which can approach the temperature of the surface of the sun.


Parabolic cylinders (a parabola swept along a third dimension to make a singly-curved surface) only require aiming according to the season.  They make a moderately hot line focus.  Tracking the sun in only one dimension also gives you cosine-law power loss, as with a non-tracking photovoltaic panel).


Both collect heat in proportion to the area of sunlight intercepted.  (You can terminate the trough with mirrors to fold back the light that would have ended up off-the-end and bring it back to the focus pipe.)  The dish is more efficient than the cylinder because it can collect it at a higher temperature.  But the cylinder is easier to make big, to collect more heat.


In addition to being easy to aim, cylinders are easy to construct:  Take moderately stiff mirror material and bend it, holding it in shape with forms.  Or cut up mirrors into strips narrower than your collection pipe and aling them on supports.  Unlike a dish, you can make a cylinder as long as you want.


Seasonally-tracking parabolic cylinders, even at reasonably high latitudes, are adequate to produce "process steam" - boiling water and bringing the steam up to a reasonable temperature but not strongly superheated.  This is quite adequate to run a steam engine (or cause a steam explosion if mishandled.)  One potato processing company (in Idaho, I think) was in the news a couple decades back because they installed long parabolic cylinder solar collectors on their plant to make process steam that they in turn used to heat oil for precooking their french fries.


The collector can be a black-painted iron pipe.  Putting it inside a glass cylinder improves the collection by limiting conduction losses to the air and reflecting re-radiated far infrared back at the pipe.  Covering the trough with glass or plastic will keep the dirt off the reflector.


Aiming the reflector according to the season can be done by pivoting it around the pipe and (to a lesser extent) by moving the pipe.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 04:08:52 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

Vince

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2004, 07:14:05 PM »
Well, there's always that back-yard Solar Furnace that Mother Earth News built utilizing 12" X 12" mirrored bathroom tiles.


Check out that WHITE HOT heat exchanger !:



Frame construction:



Da plumbing:



(Mother Earth News issues #55, #56, & #57)

« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 07:14:05 PM by Vince »

monte350c

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2004, 08:08:53 PM »
I suppose you guys have already seen this, but here goes anyhow:


http://www.harbornet.com/sunflower/pvdish.html


and another one:


http://www.redrok.com/main.htm


Seems between those 2 sites a fella could set up an effective and fairly inexpensive solar collector...


Looks like a lot of fun, I am tempted!


Ted.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 08:08:53 PM by monte350c »

JW

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2004, 08:34:32 PM »
Hi Ted


  I talked with the Redrok guy before in a couple of emails(years ago). At the time I was thinking "heliostats" focasing many on a black body. He is very knowlegable about his stuff. And pointed out some obvious mistakes I had made, with focal geometry. Actually I believe he is building a solar steam, rankine cycle power plant as well. His dual axis controlers seem to address tracking in photo voltaic arrays and the parabolic receivers. If and when I ever decide to "align a parabolic reciever" I plan to include his dual axis controlers.


-JW

« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 08:34:32 PM by JW »

hvirtane

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2004, 10:25:15 AM »
Basically I see no reason it wouldn't

be successful. Problems include:

the price and the dangers of the steam

generation.


As obvious from my comment above I would

like to suggest


to do it with a low

pressure system to pump water up and

using that water as the power source

letting the water to go down through

a hydro generator.


I'm seeing very

little problems for an engineer

with economical resources to duplicate

that Danish solar pump. That idea is

a development of the well-known idea

as represented by my drawing of

'Belidor's solar pump'.


If you really want to use pressurized

high energy steam, ... then maybe

that steam turbine idea, which I presented

in that discussion 'flash steam'...


There are available quite simple drawings

how to make the reflector. Maybe one of

the best known besides the links as

given above is 'the Teton reflector':


http://www.ida.net/users/tetonsl/solar/solarhom.htm


I don't think that it is difficult to make.


To speak about really tiny experiments.

I some time ago tried to run a toy

Wilesco D6 steam engine http://www.koenig-und-kraft.de/wilescoe/

using a concentrating solar mirror

of 80 cm in dia made of a discarded satellite

antenna. As expected it runs without

problems.


I wish that you are successful.


I hope that you would build it

with such low technology that

it would be possible to duplicate

the thing in developing countries easily.


- Hannu

« Last Edit: July 10, 2004, 10:25:15 AM by hvirtane »

thunderhead

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2004, 02:29:37 PM »
There is a small and insane community online who build jet engines using turbochargers they've found in junkyards.  All a turbocharger jet-engine needs to make it go is to plumb the cold-side output into something that heats air, and then pass the hot air into the hot-side input.  


If you used the central pipe of a trough reflector as an air-heater, and put some magnets on the disc of the turbocharger to build a generator (with very strong glue)...


It would be noisy, though. :-(

« Last Edit: July 10, 2004, 02:29:37 PM by thunderhead »

terryf

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2004, 10:24:23 PM »
I want to thank everyone for their input. I will be reading all of the data you have provided and keep you informed as to my progress. The complex we have decided to build will have to have a power system requirement of at least 50KW. This is a big project but in the end I hope to be able to provide detailed instruction on building a low cost solar and wind power plant. A website will be setup soon to follow.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2004, 10:24:23 PM by terryf »

Matrix1000

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Re: Solar electric generating system using mirrors
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2004, 05:45:06 PM »
Another Idea for cheap mirror is to use flexible sheet mylar mirror. It comes in rolls like Reynolds wrap. Once its up you cant tell its not a regular glass mirror. Ultra reflective and it can be shaped also :)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2004, 05:45:06 PM by Matrix1000 »