Leds for growing better plants and food?

[nothing to lose]

 The LED grow lights I have seen for sale cost far too much for me to mess with and are also built for 120Vac use. There may be others I have not seen yet of course, but so far I have not found any that I want to buy.

I want DC lighting to run directly from batteries. Leds are great because they use such low power. The prebuilt Led lights use far too many Leds in my opion and they try to light up everything. The only place the light is really needed is on the plants, not all the dirt between plants etc..

Blue light is for plant growth, stonger bigger plants.

Red light is for growing the fruits and veggies themselfs, should make larger better food (or flowers for house plants)

How fancy do LED grow lights need to be? Not Very.

I found a clearance item for $4, a 3LED BLUE moodlight set for auto use. Being I have a  car the dash lights don't work in and cannot see my speed odmeter at night I bought it to use for dashlights in the car. Plugs into cigerette lighter, switch to turn it on/off and powers 3 Leds from 12V.

Of coures we know the first thing I did with that, I still have no dash lights in the car LOL

If these post well here are a couple pictures of my little 72 starter tray. The plants are Beef Tomatoes, Grape Tomatoes, Carrots. All were started at same time, so you can see the random growth that has occured on just normal lighting so far.

Notice in the pictures how all the plants are bent over to the left. That is where I had the blue LEDs most recently for about 11 hours. Before that I had the Leds on the right side and all the plants were bent to the right!

 Plants only seek light to grow, so if they are bent over seeking the light like that then the lights are working to help them grow.

Of course we don't want plants bent in half, and Leds should be spread around and adjusted to the plants. I only had the 3 blue leds in that one set, and the plants basically chase the leds as I move them around. When I get more Blue Leds I will have them shinning down from the top and in from sides onto each plant once out of the tray and re-potted. For now I'll mount this set of 3 above and shinning down into the tray so that plants will grow UP not Over

It's only been about 18hrs or so since I wired that set to the battery for this and I can tell it's working. There is no way to test anything like this really to see what works best. If you can see the plants in the trays well enough you will see that even though they were all planted at same time, same seeds from same pack, no plants are  the same. I have Tomatoe plants not even starting yet, some just poped out last night, and some fairly large. All were done exactly the same, but no two are alike.

My other egg carton trays planted the same day with same seeds using potting soil were barely starting and just over night I have several fairly large ones today.

It was interesting in the dark to see that even though the Bluelight could not be seen on the far right side of the tray as I had them placed, the plants still saw the light and bent to seek it better. Of course I will also be using a white liner soon to reflect the blue light back to the plants instead of the black box absorbing it. I may use Mylar, I think I have some empty chip bags.

This set of 3 as built for car use uses 0.02amps at 12V according to my meter. I have not taken the plug apart to see what's in it and probably won't since I want it for the car dash lights. For now I just stuck wires on the plug with electrical tape and connected to a 17amphr SLA.

I don't have the bulk Blue Leds yet, looking for some now. I will make battery operated Led grow lights to sit around. As planned now, I'll probably split a PVC pipe into strips, drill a few holes to press Leds into at various angles, run the sets from Bruces Ni-cads.

 Being battery operated with the Ni-cads the lights will be very easy to move around and change things, no permantant AC/DC wires needed running  around the greenhouse area. Simply change the batteries once a week or month with fresh ones as needed and recharge the used.

Of course I am setting up a small batch of brew for alky feul again, will be venting the CO2 to the plants also till they are ready to bud.

[willib]

If you put a set of white LEDs at the other end , i wonder which way they would turn?

[nothing to lose]

I would geuss they would bend to where they get most blue light available.

White is all colors including blue, and like a solar panel only makes best use of part of the suns rays, supposedly a plant only makes use of the certain colors of light. Some light like UV may be harmful to the plants.

I do see now for certain that plants like Blue Leds far better than White CFL!

 The CFL lights (52 watts 120Vac) have been on for about 6 hours or so, equal to 200watts of normal bulbs? In that tray I took pictures of earlier nothing has changed other than turning on the ceiling lights (CFL).

 Almost all of the plants still lean towards the Blue LEDS to get their light, only the furthest row has straightened up to get light from the ceiling CFLs. The row furthest from the blue Leds and getting the least Blue light are only ones growing staight up now.

My egg carton plants are doing well tonight also, Soon I will have lots of egg cartoons.

My egg plants are not doing so well, not one egg has sprouted yet. LOL

Really though the plants in the egg cartons seemed to pop up fast today, must have been growing under the dirt then found away out, now I have many more plants than this morning, too much to grow in just one day.

[BT Humble]

That would make a great science project, for anyone who has kids of school age.

Just one thing, are those REALLY tomato plants, young man? <stern look>

BTH

[TomW]

BT;

My first question, exactly.

T

[ghurd]

I Really did NOT think it would work worth a hoot!

Figured the wave length would be off.

G-

[willib]

i wasnt going to be the first to ask  , but lol

yes they look like tomatoes

yep

.

.

.

sure do

[bigdan]

Anybody who says money does not grow on trees, aren't planting the Right trees.LOL

Good luck and have fun, Bigdan

[richhagen]

I wonder how efficient one could make this.  With a timer for the lights, some storage, and a racks of plants with led holders, and everything that is not a plant, reflective.  I noticed a while ago that solar panels can collect a variety of light wave lengths, including longer wave lengths.  If one has panels that collect over a wide range of wavelengths, even if the panels efficiency is in the teens, and one converts it all to blue light via LED's, especially in latitudes far away from the equater, one could at least seriously extend the growing season.  I know green houses are frequently used for this, but one might be able to make them more efficient and productive.  Rich  

[richhagen]

I got curious as to what wavelengths of light plants need.  From a variety of web sources it appears that they need both the Blue and the Red ends of the visible spectrum but not the green in the middle.  Here is a reasonable summary of what I found from the planet natural website, www.planetnatural.com, which is a site that among other things sells plant lights.  I have no affiliation with them, I am only citing their claims.  -Rich

"Plants appear green because they reflect green light, while absorbing the other colors of the spectrum. The green pigment in plants is chrorophyll, essential for photosynthesis. The green portion of the light spectrum is relatively unimportant to photosynthesis, since it is mostly reflected by the plant. Chlorophyll absorbs light energy from the blue and red portions of the spectrum, to convert carbon dioxide and water into sugars to be used by the plant. Without red and blue light rays, the plant will weaken or die prematurely.

The orange-red portion of the light spectrum is very important to plant reproduction. Pigments called "photochromes" absorb the red and far red portions of the light spectrum. Photochromes regulate seed germination, root development, tuber and bulb formation, dormancy, flowering and fruit production. Therefore, the red portion of the light spectrum is essential to plant growth, particularly during the flowering, fruiting, and reproductive stage.

Plants need light from the blue end of the spectrum, as well. Blue light stimulates chlorophyll production more than any other color, promoting thick leaves, stocky stems and strong vegetative growth. Carotenoids, the yellow-orange pigment in plants, absorb blue light and control leaf fall and fruit ripening. Riboflavin, containing another pigment, absorbs violet light and influences "phototropism," the movement of plant foliage in response to a light source.

"Positive tropism" is the movement of plant foliage toward a light source, while "negative tropism" is the movement of plant foliage away from a light source. Positive tropism is greatest in the blue end of the spectrum at about 450 nanometers. At this level, plants lean towards the light, spreading their leaves out horizontally to absorb the most light possible. Lack of blue light will make plants tall and spindly, since the plants will stretch out in search of blue rays. Adequate blue light helps ensure each plant's natural shape and prevents "legginess," or unnatural elongation of the stems."

[nothing to lose]

 I told you so, LOL.

Your in the LED biz, you need to get in on this. Plant some plants indoors, maybe a closet, use some Bruce packs to power LEDs for awhile. See what happens. You got plenty of solar pannels to charge Bruce packs

 I am going to wire up some Ni-Cad cells from Bruce packs for about 6V, I have a solar pannel from a 6V electric fence charger I'll charge them with. I don't have the LEDs yet though.

I have some Red, White, UV I bought a few years ago for computer mods, but I can't find any of them now.

I do have that neat little light sensor you made me and the white leds for it still.

[nothing to lose]

Thanks for the info in the second post, a couple things there I did not remember in the other info I was reading other places, which I can't find right now.

I am thinking a Photocell to turn on the LEDs when dark, off durring good sunlight. Maybe let them have light 24hrs. When I get more LEDs I'll work on this.

You would be suprised how much BLUE light is in the dark! On that black tray the far end was dark, could not see any blue light though the plants still could see the light to lean towards it. Well I folded a piece of white printer paper to fit the far side of the tray, it reflected light I could not see without it and even lit up the white ceiling. It was Blue light, but the paper was lit up like under UV light almost. Could be some UV in the blue also perhaps.

Where the plants at the far end would bend towards the lights on the tray and were basically in the dark, with the paper to reflect the light they stood up straight. Getting about equal blue from each side. The plants closer to the lights still bent over towards the lights of course since that's allot stronger blue light there.

It's kinda fun to watch the plants bend around as I move the lights. Can't actaully watch them move as it does take time, but look every few minutes or an hour and you see they have moved trying to face the lights.

Reminds me of those plants you touch and the leaves close up.

"I wonder how efficient one could make this."

Very much being creative and breaking the normal trends and methodes.

Another enteresting thing I will try that the blue lights will help alot, growing Tomatoe plants upside down. No Joke!

Hanging pot, like 5gal bucket, hole in bottom center, place plant through hole roots up and gently pack in soil, use a coffee filter or such inside bucket to help hold plant and dirt in place. This does work! One of the biggest problems though is the plants normally try to grow upwards. Using Blue Leds to LEAD the plants where you want them should make them want to grow down instead of upwards when you place the LEDs under the pots!

 Another thing is there are some other plants like some herbs you can plant with Tomatoes that will help them grow, it acts as a mulch, I think parsley is one type. I'm going to look for info on Alphalfa sprouts (if I can figure out how to spell it) as I think that could be a good top crop which I like also.

 When growing tomatoes upside down in buckets the other plants can be grown on the top facing up, basically doubling your planting area! Growing down tomatoes also elimates the need to stake them, saving time and materials.

 There are other things that grow well this way I am sure, probably needs to be a smaller items though, watermelons would not be a good upside down plant to try. DARN IT!

[ghurd]

NTL, my 55 degree killer blues are 465nm. Only off by 15nm.

The best reds I have are 630nm, a bit toward orange from pure red. Only 30 degrees though.

Stay with 12V for blue LEDs, 3 in series just like white.  3X the light for double the power.

Try aluminum foil for the reflector.

Bought this old house from a musician, and it has a windowless fruit cellar.  The walls and ceiling of the fruit cellar are covered with aluminum foil and 3/8" foil covered Styrofoam sheets. Blinding in there with a 40W bulb.

It is maybe 5x9 feet and has 6 or 8 outlets too.

Must be where he grew his `Tomatoes'? Musicians love their tomatoes. LOL

G-

[richhagen]

One thing I recall from biology, is that in plants, photosynthesis is dominant in the daytime, consuming carbon dioxide and giving off Oxygen, but at night they have a cycle of respiration, actually giving off a little carbon dioxide.  I am not sure if 24 hour lighting is a good idea.  It may need to cycle for maximum growth, but I am not sure of this.  Rich

[Bruce S]

NTL;

   VERY NICE!!! , save me some of those tomatoes.::__))

Hey here's what I have found for the best on/off timing, I'll try and get you some pics. I use this setup for Herbs... the wifey needs herbs to cook with...

17 hours on the rest of the time off, not just dim but off otherwise they will get long and stringy. The tomatoes need this off time once they get fruit on them , the tomatoes ripen in the dark time.

if those are about 2 weeks in growth, wait 2 more weeks and switch OR wait 'til you see the first real set of leaves , those that are hairy type, then switch to the red.

and keep the light not much closer than 6" otherwise they will stay in the growth stage.

There's a website that was really great for instuctions on this except they were at first all about growing the recreational hemp:--)

So it's blocked here at work.

Looks like you'll be having a bumper crop of 'maters:--)

I have mint and chives that are 18" and wating for the ground to warm up.

BTW: "Bruce packs" kinda catchy

Cheers my friend.

Bruce S

[nothing to lose]

 I'll try giving them a resting period then at night.

 I think I will plant more seeds next week. Maybe try various things like growing a couple plants under just leds, no sun at all and see what happens. Maybe some plants with 24hr leds and others with 17hr on and 7hr off or such.

Seeds and dirt are cheap, the pots cost! I found another place to buy plastic barrels, my other place stopped selling them for some reason. $6 for a 30gal barrel, cut in half $3 for a 15 gal planter. I geuss that's not too bad. If these barrels last as long as the others I was buying they will never need replaced.

Those leds sound good Ghurd. 30 degrees sounds ok, I think. I was kinda planning to spotlight the plants from various angles.

[Bruce S]

Forget the pots, use the paper egg cartons :-) once they get up a couple inches put 'em all in a soup can, add more soil , punch hole in bottom plant in ground .

We're using them to get the peas and snap beans going, then I put a blue plastic tarp from big lots, on the ground to warm it up, once the beans and peas are ~12" in the ground they go and I keep the trap on them 'til nights are no longer below 50F.

Hope this helps,

BTW: Sold car, kept truck :--)  car didn't like Alky mix, truck loves it, truck won.

?question? are those Arkansas tomtoes?

I quick little 555 timer should work using those packs and if used in series /parallel should lsat about a week on a single full charge:--)

Cheers,

Bruce S

[cyplesma]

"I may use Mylar, I think I have some empty chip bags."

I remember that episode of the red-green show. first one I ever saw, where he uses an old patio umbrella as a satellite dish, uses old paint to glue opened chip bags so the shiny side is up. it's one of the few times I've ever laughed so hard.

Did those starter pots come with the soil in them?

[Gordy]

Ghurd,

I have viewed a number of LED sites, they all claim to have the best value brightest ect. Where is the best site you have found to get them?

I'd like to try this, cause I have some sun loving house plants that just don't do well in front of my double pane low-E windows. Also it's getting close to starting time for my veggies. But if I start them too early they get way too leggy and fall over.

Gordy

[Jimmy D]

NTL

If you can spare the mas, a couple of pc fans pointed in the general direction may help. This aids movement of gases around the plants and strengthens the stems.

Jim

[nothing to lose]

I don't get the paper egg cartons, they are those styrofoam ones around here.

 Also I stopped buying store eggs (unless I have to) so I am getting recycled styrofoam egg cartons from a chicken farmer, then recycling them to planters, unless I return them for a refill

 Nothing like fresh eggs can be found in a Grocery store!

 Real Eggs come from chickens not stores!

I'll plant stuff in ground too, but I want some things indoors in planters so I'll have something to eat other than meat.

Too many rabbits, squirls, Opposums, armadillo's, skunks, and Racoons around here. That's just what I saw LAST NIGHT! I don't know where the deer were that normally bed down in the slope, I did not see them last night.

Beef stake and Grape Tomatoes. I hope a grape tomatoe is like a Cherry tomatoe! Not sure.

 When the Arkansas farmers start selling tomatoes I will buy some, then save the seeds to plant. These are Wal-mart seeds so probably CHINA Tomatoes!

[nothing to lose]

"Did those starter pots come with the soil in them? "

Yes the black tray had the peat pellets with it, but I think good DIRT works as well.

The egg cartons I had to add my own soil

 I had an old bag of potting soil layng around and used that.

Ya I loved to watch Red Green when I used to watch TV. That was like 11 years ago when I lived in WI. I never put up an antenna for free local channels (not worth a hoot) nor a dish for expensive pay TV, neither one here, just as happy without it. I do watch movies, VHS or DVD, just not TV.

 

[ghurd]

The big ones are blue, small ones are red, seperate power in wires.

Heat shrink on the leads, aimable, 12V, 40ma. total per light, 20ma per color.

It makes a strange color light with both on.

G-

[nothing to lose]

I like those!

 Looks like a nice setup for the lights like that.

Strange color light when both on? You mean it's not Purple, LOL

They should work well. I like the idea of using either color as wanted or both at once, and also being aimable.

I do get my Milli's an Nilli's mixed up.

40ma, is that like 0.04amp? If so should run about 25hours per amphr?

[nothing to lose]

I did not know or think of that.

I do have a fan running to stir air around the house so they have air movement now though you can't see it.

Later when I transplant they won't though in other indoor locations. I'll have to watch that.

[elvin1949]

NTL

 I have read that red mulch under tomato's will

increse production.

 Wondering if red led's would do the same.

A circle of them around the base of plant,

pointed up at the bottom of the leave's.

Just a thought

later

elvin

[elvin1949]

Tomato's are wind pollenated.

 Helps to shake them by hand to.

later

elvin

[Gordy]

NTL,

Yes the grape tomatoes are like cherry tomatoes, just that they grow in bunches on the vine like grapes.

Gordy

[nothing to lose]

Thanks, I see I bought cherry tomatoes but I may go back and buy the grape also then.

 I was looking at lots of stuff, some reason I thought it was grapes type I bought then.

[ghurd]

Hi Gordy,

That is a can of worms. Too many variables.

Contact me with your plan for more info, ghurd1 at yahoo

[Slingshot]

Another thing about growing plants upside down is it could keep the deer from eating them.  You could hang your containers from a rope, let them down to water or harvest and then haul them back up out of harm's way.  I have a friend in South Carolina who grows tomatos this way.  She uses plastic 2-liter "coke" bottles, upside down with the bottoms cut out, and the tomato stems hanging out the bottle neck.  Claims it works great, but I haven't tried it yet.

[nothing to lose]

Thanks,

I was just looking at some trees outside and thinking, if I strung a rope

I had not thought about raising and lowering the plants though, I was just thinking all the room to hang them. That's a good idea to raise and lower. I think I have pullies and should be able to cut some on the lather to work for this also, just have to build a mount to bolt to the trees to hold them.

[nothing to lose]

I got the LED boards Ghurd sent, red and blue on a board, I can use either or both, they are very nice!

I have a plant hanging upside down in a planter, it was growing to the right side and I think tryng to grow upwards. I put one of Ghurds boards under it and to the left, the plant followed the light. About midway down the stem it started bending around almost U shaped to face the light. I moved the light lower and more to the center now to straighten it out.

Certainly the plants like it and try to get to it just like they do the sun when outdoors.

Also as a side note, the boards make a nice colored glow for a night light. When the room is dark at night and the LEDs are on, I can see to walk around and such pretty well even though the LEDs are aimed at the plant.

All of my plants, even the ones in the sun are still little weeds sofar, I think I should have planted sooner looking at those the stores are selling. I may buy a few plants so I get tomatoes sooner and place one or two store bought plants in with mine and the LEDs and see how they do also.

Still to early to tell anything but the plant in the house with LEDs are doing as well as those in the sun outside, just they all grow so slow. And I still have a few seeds just now poping out though all were planted at same time. Even in the same group of 3, one has been growing for awhile and a seed just poped out next to it yesterday.