Author Topic: Radial playtime.. (Read 2629 times)

windstuffnow · « **on:** April 25, 2007, 06:55:07 PM »

Ok, so I get bored working with all the regular stuff and now and then you just have to try something odd... like me I suppose ( some would say )..

Never the less I've made up some parts for the start of a small radial. It will have 26 poles and 39 coils ( I told you it was odd ). I'm going to wind it with 21 turns per coil for a starter to get a 100 rpm ( + or - ) cut in speed. Not intended to be a real work horse just a fun experiment. I don't expect cogging will be an issue as much as the iron drag.

I cut 8 plates this morning, 4 inches in diameter to make up a 1" thick stator core. Below shows one of the plates...

Here is everything together (so far). The magnet rotor was machined from 4" sch40 pipe and the magnets are simply tossed in place right now.

I'm still crazy busy with other stuff so I don't know when I'll be able to finish it off, just needed a temporary diversion to maintain sanity and this was stuck in my head...

.

vawtman · « **Reply #1 on:** April 25, 2007, 02:57:13 PM »

Hello Ed

Odd people do odd things and have fun doing it at least i do.LOL

Is the rotor going to spin around a stationary stator with this oddball?

Nice workmanship on that stator plate.How many plates?

pepa · « **Reply #2 on:** April 25, 2007, 03:48:57 PM »

beautiful work ED, i am stuck on my heat engine and have been watching for a post on the progress on yours, when you get back to it. i like the way you think. enjoy, pepa

jimjjnn · « **Reply #3 on:** April 25, 2007, 04:34:54 PM »

ED,

Great going !!

I want to follow this one of yours all the way through.

Get busy :-))

windstuffnow · « **Reply #4 on:** April 25, 2007, 05:05:19 PM »

Hi Pepa, what are you stuck on? I have some parts on the table for a small 2" piston model that I've been stealing time making parts for when I can but haven't started on the big one yet.

.

windstuffnow · « **Reply #5 on:** April 25, 2007, 05:18:17 PM »

I'll probably poke around with it a little more tomorrow in between other projects. and hopefully have a testable model by the weekend...

I've been toying with another motor idea that I'm sure everyone will love. It's been in the works since the 70's on and off. Each model has morphed into something better, their all based on a single stupid idea.

This year is catch up year, time to clear my head and work benches...

.

windstuffnow · « **Reply #6 on:** April 25, 2007, 05:29:11 PM »

Yes the magnet rotor will rotate around a stationary stator Vawtman. The plates are cut from 1/8" steel, 8 of them make an inch ( actually just under ).

I was thinking the other day on your 32" alternator... and wondered how feasable it would be to make only several coils or a partial stator mounted in some easily accessed location. It seems to me it would be quite a task to make a stator that covered the circumference when you could get by with only one section. Sure would make it easy to do 8 or 10 coils with more turns than the whole thing. I don't think you'd need to double the magnets as you described either for the output your looking for. The single row of 2 x 1 would be more than sufficient. Just a thought... my mind wonders all the time, it's a wonder I get anything done at all...

.

vawtman · « **Reply #7 on:** April 25, 2007, 05:57:41 PM »

My goodness Ed that could be a brilliant idea!Your machining expertise may be called on.I will get measurements off the scale.

Many Thanks

nothing to lose · « **Reply #8 on:** April 25, 2007, 07:14:36 PM »

Wow, nice work on those plates!

Interesting project.

Jerry · « **Reply #9 on:** April 25, 2007, 09:20:57 PM »

Hey Ed.

Premium work you do there. I know your very busy but your disc there with all that cutting and slots indicates you have the ability to divide a circle up as many times as you want.

OK here it is? I need some help. I'm in the design stages of my 28 magnet (14 per-disc) and 11 coils. I'll be useing your wedge magnets.

I can't divide 360 degrees evenly by either 14 or 11. The protractor just won't do that for me.

I think the computer will do that and even make a printable template. My computer may be smart enough to do that but I'm not.

Maybe you or some one here has a better relationship with the computer then I do and post these 2 templates I need. Then I'll just print them out and build my rotors and stator from that.

That would be a great help. Not sure If I'll have to go 10" or 12"?

Thanks for anyones help with this.

JK TAS Jerry

windstuffnow · « **Reply #10 on:** April 25, 2007, 09:39:52 PM »

Hi Jerry,

It's on its way ! Both 14 and 11 in a JPG format. Just print it, cut it and mark it.

.

willib · « **Reply #11 on:** April 25, 2007, 11:35:43 PM »

i've been tinkin

about an alt with 21 coils 56 mags ( 28 per disk)

its 12.8 inches dia.

and plenty of ventilation

Tritium · « **Reply #12 on:** April 26, 2007, 08:05:20 AM »

I use Microsoft Excell for dividing up 360 degrees into as many divisions as I want.

Use the pie chart graphing function. If you want to divide a circle up into 18 segments for example: Enter the same data value on 18 lines in excell then graph it using the pie chart function and print it.

Thurmond

Norm · « **Reply #13 on:** April 26, 2007, 08:19:50 AM »

Jerry,

You can Google it ....wipekedia isn't always

bad....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygon

You can even find out trivial facts....like the

Canadian coin , the Looney is a 11 sided figure.

( :>) Norm

zapmk · « **Reply #14 on:** April 26, 2007, 09:02:58 AM »

Hey Willib,

That photo looks just like my 24 inch rotors that I have been working on forever.

Might think about the ventilation holes, caused me a little extra work, you would be suprised how much even half inch steel will flex under the pull of the magnets.

ED,

Looks like that new machine is really getting a good workout, Very nice parts indeed.

Hows that 1.5Kw Lenz coming along ?

-Zapmk

Countryboy · « **Reply #15 on:** April 26, 2007, 09:21:18 AM »

An easy way to segment a circle is to pretend you are laying out a bolt circle with evenly spaced holes. Instead of drilling the holes, you draw a line from the center of the plate through the center line of where the hole would be drilled.

The formula to use is (1/2 degrees)Sin X bolt circle = distance between bolt holes.

For 11 equally spaced segments, divide 360 by 11 = 32.73 degrees for each segment.

(One half of 32.73)Sin X bolt circle = distance between segment lines at bolt circle diameter.

The bolt circle diameter you choose is just a reference line for laying it out.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CircularSegment.html

willib · « **Reply #16 on:** April 26, 2007, 09:57:49 AM »

yes yours does look similar

how much does yours flex ?

and at what distance

Flux · « **Reply #17 on:** April 26, 2007, 12:14:44 PM »

Ed, I share your concern about drag from iron loss, with 1/8" thick lams The iron loss will be dreadful. Even the cheaper grade motor punchings are not particularly good at .020 thick and better grade steel.

Flux

zapmk · « **Reply #18 on:** April 26, 2007, 12:58:44 PM »

Hi Willib,

With the 2x1x.5 neo 45's it would bow .100+ with a 7/8 air gap.

The thing that concerned me was, whats happens to the rotors when placed under aload ?

Another story for a different thread. ;>)

-Zapmk

windstuffnow · « **Reply #19 on:** April 26, 2007, 04:57:29 PM »

Hi Flux, yea I realize this is not a wonderfully efficient set up, its just an experiment on the odd winding and pole count. Just something stuck in my head that I have to get out. It's not meant to be put into anything that will have continuous use. I'm sure the plates would heat up considerably. If it does work reasonably well I plan to cut some larger plates from thin material. I have some 6" and 8" sch40 pieces to work with but didnt want to spend a massive amount of time building up a large one until it's proven one way or another. If it turns out to be another failure then it simply becomes parts for another project in the future...

.

windstuffnow · « **Reply #20 on:** April 26, 2007, 05:05:41 PM »

I painted the plates last night, put it together and wound the stator...

I was going to use #20 wire but it seems I've misplaced it. I ended up winding it with #22 wire, it still came in at 0.6 ohms in star, not much higher than I calculated with #20...

I'm hoping to get the bearing hub, rotor and backing completed this weekend...

.

.

Countryboy · « **Reply #21 on:** April 26, 2007, 09:07:59 PM »

The stator plates appear to have 4 slots as boltholes. I first suspected the slots were so you could easily skew the stator laminations, yet in the picture with the coils wound, it appears there is no skew.

Are you planning on skewing the magnets? Or are you just going to try to twist the laminations with the coils already wound to the proper skew?

Flux · « **Reply #22 on:** April 27, 2007, 12:33:29 AM »

Would have been interesting to find the minimum cog point and how critical it was, but cog is not going to be the issue that determines the start up wind speed. The drag from iron loss will hold it back even if you break the cog by giving it a push.

Flux

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Author Topic: Radial playtime.. (Read 2629 times)