Author Topic: More wind,dead battery.  (Read 7372 times)

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JimmyZ

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More wind,dead battery.
« on: October 25, 2008, 01:37:04 PM »
Here we go again.Windy week and will be all weekend.My battery died again in the same time period as before.13 days +/-.Really wondering if this treadmill motor is even worth anything.I have searched around,and have not found anyone with information about how long it takes to actually charge a 12 volt deep cycle battery using this type of generator.Tuesday,the wind spun my gen all day long at about 30 mph.The battery was @ 12 volts and radio equipment was operating as normal.Friday it was also spinning like crazy all day.Battery was croaking at the same time.I could tell,the beacon radio was getting a wobbly sound.If my battery lasts 2 weeks from a full charge,then it should last 2 additional weeks after a few days of good steady winds?Yes,as I said before,when I spin it by hand disconnected from the battery it reads about 6 volts.Can only spin it so fast by hand.I can see the blades actually flexing when it spins in the wind.I find it hard to believe the radio uses more than the gen can produce.This gen must not charge very well otherwise.The equipment has been shut off before the battery went totally dead and was unable to run the radio @ 11 volts.This time,I will know if it charges with nothing using the power.On sunday,it will be tested again and see if it charged.Here is the weather outlook for area.Anyone actually know what is going on??


http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Rochester&state=NY&site=BUF&textField1



43.1687&textField2-77.6158


What should I expect???As you can tell,I am frustrated and clueless.Here are the latest videos also from this past week.


http://www.freewebs.com/jimmzz91164/videoandaudio2.htm


And here are the exact specs of my treadmill motor>

SPECIFICATIONS


    * 2-1/4 HP @ 260 VDC int.

    * 1-1/8 HP @ 130 VDC cont.

    * 95-260 VDC

    * 5 Amps @ no load

    * 0-5100 RPM

    * Rotation reversible


                                        JimmyZ

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 01:37:04 PM by (unknown) »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2008, 07:40:39 AM »
Actually,here is a wind forecast in the mill location.


http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Caneadea&state=NY&site=BUF&textField1=
42.3579&textField2=-78.2118


                                 JimmyZ

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 07:40:39 AM by JimmyZ »

zap

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2008, 08:12:22 AM »
Jimmy something looks odd on the videos.  Are you using a diode between the genny and the batteries?

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 08:12:22 AM by zap »

Flux

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2008, 08:26:26 AM »
Instead of posting useless videos and weather forecasts why don't you go and measure the current the radio takes and also the current from the wind generator ( if any).


It's not possible to sort this by telepathy. Your motor should cut in about 300 rpm at 12v that seems reasonable if you can hand crank it to 6v.


We have no idea what speed your blades are doing but they would have to be way off the mark not to reach 300rpm in a 30 mph wind ( if you have any).


I assume from the numbers you are a radio ham, surely you can go and get some real measurements. If you come back with useful information then we may be able to help, my guess you have done something completely silly and we are never going to discover what it is from a useless video. A decent still photo of the blades would have been infinitely more use.


Flux

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 08:26:26 AM by Flux »

luv2weld

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2008, 09:02:26 AM »
Jimmy,

We need a little more info.

The only test I see is---when I spin it by hand disconnected from the battery it reads about 6 volts.


As zap said, if there is no diode between the battery

and generator, maybe it is motoring, draining the battery.


If there is a diode, have you tested it??


Have you tested the output under load??


There appear to be 3 wires out from the motor.

What are the readings 1 to 2, 2 to 3, and 1 to 3 when spinning???

And what RPM were the readings taken???


Can you show us a wiring diagram??


I looked at the photos in your files, and it looks like

there might be corrosion on the connections on the rectifier.


Have you checked the rectifier??


Have you used a Doc Wattson or Watts Up to check the actual

power being used??? Also to see if anything is really coming

out of the generator when the wind is blowing??


If you can answer these, I'm pretty sure we'll find the problem.


Ralph

 

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 09:02:26 AM by luv2weld »
The best way to "kill time" is to work it to death!

jimjjnn

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2008, 09:09:28 AM »
ZAP, My thoughts exactly.


When wind slowed down, the mill looked like it was "motoring"


Looks like a shorted diod or no diode

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 09:09:28 AM by jimjjnn »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2008, 10:04:18 AM »
I realize most of you have been very patient.I think my website has many weeks of good info.I do not expect anyone to actually read it all.But in order to actually make any comment,you have to do the research.Everything you ask me is there in weeks of events.I know most of it is boring,but the facts are there.There is a video with a test meter on the genny showing the voltages in a light wind on the first day.There is a photo and explanation of the diode and how it was wired in detail the second time.There is an explanation of why the mill looks like it is going in reverse.(cam frame rate)Observe the hub not the blades.Of course I connected the battery and did not see it motoring the blades.Otherwise,the battery would die sooner than 13 days?Plus I would have noticed it???:)The dump load is also explained in detail and set to full charge volts.I use the website so I do not have to re-type 2 months of events.I am drawing my conclusion that the generator is not and never was charging.There have been winds of all speeds well before the battery died.The videos are pretty much proof that it IS turning well.I respect comments,but believe me,those are pretty much covered a long time ago.I really believe the gen was bad the day I bought it.I agree however.An ammeter would be a good way to know for positive.Sorry,but was hoping there was something someone knew that I do not.I made the mistake of assuming the gen worked from day 1.I will get a new gen and scrap that one.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 10:04:18 AM by JimmyZ »

Flux

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2008, 10:12:27 AM »
"The battery was @ 12 volts and radio equipment was operating as normal."


Did you measure this?. 12v means a flat battery. If you say the blades were spinning like crazy then it seems almost certainly that it is not charging. What do you mean that the battery was croaking ( it will croak soon enough if you keep it flat).


I realise that you have trouble getting to this thing, but that is one of the problems with wind, you should have tested it thoroughly before taking it to a remote site. I really can't imagine taking it somewhere and leaving it without ever checking its output.


Your 15W continuously is a large drain for a small wind turbine but on good days it should do something to extend the battery run period. I am not sure if you will have enough output for continuous power but it should manage it through the windy days.


I have read back through your earlier posts and you seem to have a mental blockage about charging batteries, I strongly suspect you have something stopping it from charging. Are you still going via controllers or have you tied it straight to the battery with one series diode ( and you really must get an ammeter to be able to sort this).


I saw a photo of your blades in an earlier post and they look perfectly normal except for the backwards rotation which will not matter.My main concern about leaving such a simple thing unattended in high winds would be survival not lack of output. You have to do something dreadful for it not to produce 15W in a 30 mph wind. Burn out rather than no output would be my concern.


If you can get to the thing in a decent wind the most useful thing you could do other than fit an ammeter would be to measure the voltage coming directly from the motor. If it is below 12v then you aren't going fast enough. If it is more than 1v above battery volts then your diode is not conducting. If it is going like crazy in a 30mph wind then you must have an open circuit somewhere and you will probably see many volts off the motor or none at all if the open circuit is before the point of measurement.


How about stupid things like the hub spinning on the shaft rather than turning the motor? you will have to do some tests and apply a bit of logic or at least report back with exactly what you find.


Flux

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 10:12:27 AM by Flux »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2008, 10:13:45 AM »
BTW,

       Flux,that is the second reply you made.The first you mentioned "CRAZY SCHEME" and now "SILLY" ? Take some time and read the facts.:((

                    Jim
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 10:13:45 AM by JimmyZ »

Flux

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2008, 10:24:45 AM »
Sorry I can't be bothered to read stuff on your website that you can't be bothered to post here. You need to do the research not tell us. This is a perfectly simple thing to sort out. You could wind a piece of string round the shaft of that motor and pull it way up to charging speed and checked it. If you had an ammeter in there you could have found out weeks ago if the motor was any good. Even shorting it out and checking for amps would have confirmed that.


Go out and buy another one rather than use a bit of logic and check the one you have if that seems a cheaper option to you.


Your are dead right it has never charged that bit you have got right.


Sorry I can't help any more if you can't use your loaf to some extent. If you were a plumber I would have more sympathy, surely a radio ham can do simple things with batteries.


Flux

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 10:24:45 AM by Flux »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2008, 10:43:26 AM »
Why bother to help and comment if you do not want to?My information is to help others as well.I spent lots of time to share my information with the public.Is what you reply fair???This is for everyone,not only about how YOU feel.please take this as friendly advice.Where is your time and data available to the public??

                Jim

                     
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 10:43:26 AM by JimmyZ »

zeusmorg

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2008, 11:16:02 AM »
 OMG!!!!!! you didn't!


 Sorry jimmy you seem to be pretty ill informed. Flux? With data? and help? boy did YOU mess up!

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 11:16:02 AM by zeusmorg »

Flux

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2008, 11:18:28 AM »
This is getting silly.


I commented in the first place because I am willing to try and help anyone with wind turbines. I hadn't seen your site other than the link to that video. Since then I have had a look and learned very little new except that it is not a very good wind site and your wind figures are probably well below the weather station figures. Even so you should have enough wind to do something useful.


I am not sure what use your information is in the public domain, at least the bit about a wind turbine that doesn't work. Perhaps when you sort it then it will be worthwhile adding more.


I was brought up long before the internet was dreamed of, it was difficult finding details on anything. Now everything is on the internet and in many ways it has made life so much easier. Sadly it is not as useful as it could be because there is a lot of not so useful stuff on there and sometimes it is not always possible to know what is reliable and what is not.


I don't have any web site but there are years of comments from me on this site and I dread to think how many hours I have wasted ( perhaps that's not true because I know that many have benefited from it).


I was perhaps a bit harsh in my comments, but sometimes I despair when people run a wind turbine with no means of checking whether it is doing anything or not. I sorted most of this basic stuff when I was a kid without the help of the internet and sites like this.


Simple things like a blocking diode and which way it goes, if you get it backwards the thing will motor. If it doesn't motor then it is the right way round or it is duff or something else is wrong.If when you had it the way you thought was right and you shorted it with a screwdriver the blades should have motored. This would prove that the motor was ok, the circuit was ok and if it stopped motoring when you removed the short the diode was ok. Having got that far it would charge if driven faster than it motored.


You would  soon see if the wind was capable of turning it faster than it would motor from the battery so if it motored at something under a crazy speed then the crazy speed would be a good indication that something was very wrong.


Perhaps this may be obvious to me and not to others, but the only way to sort problems is to think it out at each stage. No use leaving it for a week to see if the battery is flat then ask if anyone else has experience of how long it takes to charge a battery. It takes for ever if the thing is not working. It may only take a day if it was going full tilt in a high wind.


Let's forget about the nastiness, that doesn't give me any pleasure and it won't help your problem but if you want help here you must give all the information you have, I doubt that many others have time to wait for videos to download and they don't really help in the end. The stroboscopic effect that looked like reversal threw others off track. I give you credit for seeing through that one at least.


Flux

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 11:18:28 AM by Flux »

zeusmorg

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2008, 11:26:31 AM »
 Flux, after his comments, and lack of information given here, I'm quite surprised you took the time even to post again, you're made of sterner stuff than me..


 I didn't bother trying to second guess his problem because no good data was included..


My dog died do you guys know why?


"maybe you forgot to feed him?"

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 11:26:31 AM by zeusmorg »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2008, 11:33:02 AM »
Flux,

         I would like to put this behind us.I respect your comments greatly.My postings mostly were to attract some of the folks who already had helped me in the past from the beginning.They already know what has been done,not been done and what has been corrected.Many replies lately seem to go WAY back to the beginning where it is just repeating itself.I checked everything very well on this project.I am 65 miles away from the wind gen and seldom get a chance to get there when I really need to.But believe me when I say,when it was installed and the last visit there,I was sure to have it setup exactly as it should be.I guess I need to hear someone just say,The gen is junk and get a new one.Anyhow.It is still whipping and spinning out volts,if the current is not there,then the gen is no good.I will see what happens in a week,if the battery is still dead,that will tell all.Ghurd has helped me with the diode config a month ago.So those who followed this from day one I am sure will agree a bad gen.I just hope others will learn from this and it was and is lots of fun.I hope to share info with you in the future.

                                Jim
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 11:33:02 AM by JimmyZ »

Flux

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2008, 11:59:41 AM »
Ok fine.


I am not very keen on these little motor things with pvc blades, they fall way beyond my expectations and are a step backwards from many things that we had to use before the days of decent permanent magnets, but it is still difficult to say that it is junk at this stage.


Most motors that will produce volts are basically intact and the only thing that may make it fail to charge is a high resistance somewhere. If the thing will motor when you short the diode then it will almost certainly charge. Does it motor? that is the first thing, if not then you have no chance of it charging.


If you are in a not very good wind site then these basic little wind generators pedalled so widely on ebay and elsewhere are the first to disappoint. You would stand a far better chance with an axial alternator and decent blades but even so I think it highly unlikely that you would fail to get anything out.


Poor performance is not the same as total failure to generate.


Good luck with it or its replacement anyway.


Flux

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 11:59:41 AM by Flux »

Wolvenar

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2008, 12:00:36 PM »
You should feel lucky someone like Flux would take the time to help you at all. As I see it he offered some very useful ideas, and asked you for more input to help diagnose the problem. If you had this data why didn't you just add it to your reply, rather than trying to promote your web site.. This forum is a two way discussion, if you are truly interested in brainstorming this issue, I suggest you start posting the information people ask for, instead of getting huffy that they don't feel the need to sort through your site.


Documenting this stuff and posting it on the web for the world may be noble however...


YOU are asking for help, thereby YOU are asking for a reply from someone that has knowledge YOU do not have. Your project, don't expect others to do it for you


Show some respect.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 12:00:36 PM by Wolvenar »
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CmeBREW

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2008, 12:16:49 PM »
Yes, certainly do not get discouraged!  It is an interesting project you have there.

You certainly need to measure the amps in series with even a cheap multi-meter ($3) from Harbor Freight or radio shack.  I use that and it has always been accurate enough.


I doubt the treadmill motor mill is the main problem. If you are still reading voltage coming from it, then it is still working and charging current when a decent wind is blowing.  However, maybe the brushes are about worn out and then it sometimes will free spin (open-circuit/no charging) and sound like an ultra-light airplane.  Take it apart and check the brushes.


I made a mill out of that same  motor, and actually got over 200watts in a hurricane wind once since it had no furling system. Doing this can eat up the brushes pretty quick if you are in a good windy location. (which I am not)


That motor (for me) usually just does 10-40 watts in 'decent winds' (10-20mph winds)  though. (4'diameter)

Actually not too bad for just a little 4 foot dc motor mill I think.


One thing is for certain, you definitely need the 'Low voltage disconnect' circuit so it prevents progressively ruining your battery by over discharging.


I suspect the battery you have is probably ruined for the most part. Even if it holds a charge, the amp hours has been reduced a lot because of repeated and prolonged total discharge.  You should try a good equalizing charge with a battery charger to try to get some of your amphour capacity back.


I would get a 15watt solar panel for that system also , to make it more consistent.

I presume your battery is about 115AH .  


So running the radio 24hours a day is 15watts x 24 which equals 360 watt hours a day.

I would get another battery (230Ah total) and the 15watt solar panel in addition to the 4' mill for that system.  (just my quick opinion)


With my two 6v golf cart batterys (in series= 12v/220AH) I do not have much problem with self-discharge myself.


Hang in there, these things are difficult to explain with WORDS for all of us! No body means to insult.  

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 12:16:49 PM by CmeBREW »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2008, 12:20:37 PM »
Wolvenar,

            Believe me when I say this.I am not promoting a website by ANY means.It was a good and fun idea to make that site about the mill to help other people and myself and especially the young kids who worked on it.When I first learned of a small gen,finding websites were very interesting to me.This is my contribution for the next person to find and hopefully help.Anything promoted is to help the next guy find things faster than I did.I am just not understanding the bitterness and comments suggesting and assuming I am stupid or dumb.I realize that I could have typed out the entire story for 3 hours,but I didnt.Sorry my website has no valuable information with helping myself or anyone else.I would really like to end this post.

                               Jim
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 12:20:37 PM by JimmyZ »

wooferhound

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2008, 01:16:23 PM »
You have been asked 2 times . . .

What is the Gennys output voltage in good wind when disconnected from the battery?

I have not seen you answer this question which is very important. As a matter of fact, you have not answered any of the questions that have been asked of you. How could we possibly help if you aren't cooperating? So I'm asking this question for the 3rd time...

What is the Gennys output voltage in good wind when disconnected from the battery?

and what is the current going into the battery when connected?

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 01:16:23 PM by wooferhound »

kurt

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2008, 01:26:18 PM »
JimmyZ, HTML does not work in the intro section of a post and if you stick it in there i just have to remove it. and please if you are making a post about the same discussion as your original story make it a comment in that story especially when that story is still on the first page i just hid your new story for 2 reasons 1. you had HTML in the intro and 2. it was directly related to this story and should have been a comment.


thank you


Kurt (editor)

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 01:26:18 PM by kurt »

tanner0441

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2008, 02:01:51 PM »
Hi


At no point do you show the spec for the motor.  What voltage did it live at when it was a motor?  What speed did it run at off load?  What was the current drain?  What is the power requirement of the radio equipment and any lighting for servicing you may have. You may have posted this information elsewhere, but anyone reading your question this time may not have read your earlier postings, and may not have the time or inclination to go looking.


I have played with car alternators and small DC motors and basicaly they are OK for a bit of fun but for a serious project that is in a remote location it is unlikely to be good enough.  I am suprised you have no output figures for the generator even spun up on a drill.


As for the blades appearing to stop and reverse the blade speed is synchronising with the video frame rate. Look when they appear stationary you can see the flexing. I don't know much about blade design but I would have thought if the ends of the blades are wobbling about they are not puting power into the shaft they are mounted on.


Also as this is on a radio beacon why is there no PV back up. Surely the purpose for a beacon is for reference.  I have read some of your earlier postings and if I remember you also had concerns about the mast strength.


It is a good project and I used to do ham radio myself, beacons and repeaters are very useful for testing equipment when there seems to be no one about, but they must be dependable.  Gather all the information you can about the setup and post a new question.


This is not a critisism but an attempt to bring the questions back into a focused and structured manner.


Good luck with it...


Brian.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 02:01:51 PM by tanner0441 »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2008, 02:02:33 PM »
wooferhound,

                I measured 16 volts with a multimeter when disconnected from the battery in approx a light 12 mph wind.I have also tested the gen with an electric drill to about 2000 rpm + briefly and noted 150 volts.With the mill in the air,it measured about 6 volts with the best spin I could give it.I thought I mentioned this before.I do apologize if I did not.

                       Jim
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 02:02:33 PM by JimmyZ »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2008, 02:12:34 PM »
The only thing drawing power from the battery is a small radio.Here are actual specs.


Power output - 4 watts RF

Input voltage - 13.8 VDC @ 1.5 amps


                           Nothing else uses any of the battery power.I have even reduced the output power to 3 watts rf in hopes to reduce drawing extra amperage.The battery lasts for about 2 weeks without any charging.The blocking diode was checked and wired according to ghurds diagrams.The dump load was also from Ghurd and he helped me greatly getting it setup properly.And like I mentioned before,the winds are much greater than I have seen in weeks.Unfortunately,I can not be there when this happens.But knowing how it was turning in a light wind and seeing it in heavy winds has be wondering why no charge.I do apologize for asking these questions as I can not give any info of the voltages and currents unless I am actually at the site.

                                 Jim

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 02:12:34 PM by JimmyZ »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2008, 02:37:58 PM »
I would like to add this information also.I was trying not to bore anyone with repetitive information,but maybe that was a poor choice on my part.I bought this gen on ebay.I believe that was the first post I ever made here.Anyhow,here are the specs.Hope this helps in some way.And to answer another question by Wooferhound,the battery was measured during the 30mph wind gusts,but only for a short time.As I mentioned,I am not actually there to monitor it for long periods of time.But it was reading about 12 volts.Did not see it go any higher than that while connected to the battery.I trult believe everything is hooked up properly,I felt completely comfortable with the voltages without a load in low winds,the drill test and all the wiring.So I left it to the wind to do the rest.This is the second time in doing this.I made sure the second time I had left the site that everything was properly wired and connected.I researched here quite a bit before and now back to square 1 trying to get more ideas on what it could be.Below is a spec on this gen.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 02:37:58 PM by JimmyZ »

tanner0441

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2008, 02:38:15 PM »
Ooops bit missed out.


From the information you do have on this question, assuming the speed is linear.  To charge a 12 volt battery your going to need more than 12 Volts.  For a rough figure off load say 17 Volts. So 130 V (motor voltage) divide by 17 is 7.6  motor speed off load 5100 RPM.  5100 divide by 7.6 is 671 RPM. Also from your figures the motor is 1/8 or 1/4 HP 742/4 is 185.5 and 742/8 is 92 and that is at 5100 RPM.


So you have to reach nealy 700 RPM off load, put a load on to actualy do some work and plasic blades are working very hard to maintain the speed.


This is very rough and assuming the linearity of the motor performance.  I am sure Flux can shoot holes in this and put better and more precise numbers to this but it is at least a start to see if the generater is viable.


Brian.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 02:38:15 PM by tanner0441 »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2008, 03:00:16 PM »
Sorry for the tons of info,but this will help take some things out of the equation.The first diagram is the one I used.There are only 2 wires on the gen.Positive(red) and negative(black)maybe the photo from the other post looks like 3.And the gen is wired for CCW rotation.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 03:00:16 PM by JimmyZ »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2008, 03:24:02 PM »
Trying to answer as many of these questions as I see them.Looking thru all my info at the same time.About solar panels.I have been talking about those on my website,but we wont get into that again.My original plan was to get the wind gen up for the winter windy season.I do not have a ton of money to toss around for the many hobbies I have,but solar panels are on the list for the spring time.But winter around here,I would expect 2 or 3 feet of snow and ice on them.This beacon seemed to be a non power hungry radio,thats all I wanted the mill for.To charge a deep cycle battery and run it.The reasons for putting it out there is,1-it will not interfere with my other radio hobbies here in the city where I live.2- It looked like a fun project.I did not test the genny here because houses are very close together.If a blade comes off,it could kill someone.I learned a lesson launching a rocket in my back yard:), Thats a whole other story.I hope some of this helps.The blades wobbling makes sense,and I do realize the frame rate thing.This design is from the Chispito site almost exact.I am not trying to save on electric bills or survive off this thing.If I could afford to have electric service installed there,would have been already done.Just need about $10,000.00 to have the electric co. come out.

                                    Jim
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 03:24:02 PM by JimmyZ »

RogerAS

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2008, 04:43:37 PM »
Jim,


Here's the problem. You are using a bridge rectifier, according to the set of drawings above. Not the way to do it with a DIRECT CURRENT PM motor. Nothing is getting from the motor to the battery with that setup. Rather that go into photoshop and make a drawing I am going to attempt to show the RIGHT way to do this with ASCII characters.


Wind turbine POSITIVE LEAD -------------- =||= -------------------battery positive


Wnd turbine NEGATIVE LEAD-------------------------------------------battery negative


The top line with the diode ( symbolized by =||= ) is a BLOCKING diode, just one diode and not a bridge that contains four blocking diodes arranged to change alternating current into direct current. Your motor makes DC and does not need to be converted. A bridge, as shown must have the postive hooked to the postive battery post and the bridge negative must have that lead hooked to the battery negative. The posts on the bridge marked ~ are for the input of ALTERNATING CURRENT that must be converted to DC.


The band on the single diode should point towards the battery side.


If you have the diode backwards, the motor will spin with no wind. If this happens just flip the diode end for end on the same line out of the motor.


The motor should not spin when there is little or no wind.


If this is unclear I will post a drawing to make this easier to understand.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 04:43:37 PM by RogerAS »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2008, 05:14:15 PM »
Roger,

        I completely understand what you are saying.The blocking diode to me would be the only thing preventing this battery to get charging currents unless it is actually damaged.Believe it or not,that configuration is from this forum.Hope you do not mind,but here is the link to that post,that is what I based my setup from.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/5/8/1316/95517

Let me know what you think.Lots of mixed info and getting confusing.That is kinda why I used a website for my project to log and track where I been and what I have done.It seemed easier to me to show people.And here is where I had rewired it according to that diagram and people agreed that it was correct.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/9/18/11031/6697

These have been posted right here on this site.I hope this helps sort ideas or hopefully not make them worse.I had always came here for info before heading out to the mill site.Thanks again for your reply.

                           Jim

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 05:14:15 PM by JimmyZ »

RogerAS

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2008, 05:38:14 PM »
Jim,


One can use a bridge as a blocker, but it is more expensive and wasteful. Below is the way to do it with one diode.





Trust me, this will work. I may have the band the wrong way, but like I said it will motor if not being driven if that's the case. Just reverse the band position if it motors.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 05:38:14 PM by RogerAS »

JimmyZ

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Re: More wind,dead battery.
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2008, 05:57:09 PM »
That looks like a more common way to achieve what I need.I just need to get a diode that will hold up to the amps correct? From what I have been reading here,40 or more amp diodes are the norm?Thanks a ton for that information.I will try anything new at this point.It will be not until thanks giving when I head to the site.Should be a simple replacement.

                        Jim
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 05:57:09 PM by JimmyZ »

Norm

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Re: maybe some useful data?
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2008, 10:27:03 PM »
Turning a treadmill motor by hand with a ratio

of about 5.5....at about 330 rpm it will charge

a 6 volt battery with a reading of about 10 volts.


However for your project I myself would rather

use an Ametek because I think it will charge a

12 volt battery at a much lower rpm.


In fact you would might even need a dump load

controller to keep from overcharging the

battery in my opinion....I may be wrong....


You're on a learning curve and along the way

you may have helped others ....we learn more

by failures than by sucess


Same kind of treadmill motor

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/3/23/225230/317

« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 10:27:03 PM by Norm »