Author Topic: Old to New (Read 5368 times)

artv · « **on:** October 07, 2011, 08:15:58 PM »

Hi All ,....I found this old rear-end about 30 years ago in the bush,..Today I decided to take another look....brought it out of the bush....the big plates

never registered....until now...
I had to pull the hub off and then chisel the rivets off

These are the 2 plates,... one mounted

The plates are ~16" dia. 1/4"thick....
My question is this,.. would these plates be better suited for blades ?? Or a mag rotor.....
Or maybe it's just an old piece of junk

It spins quite freely........I think it might be a bit thin for blades ,though..
Some form of reinforcement

.......Just trying to use it......artv

electrondady1 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 07, 2011, 08:32:56 PM »

oh art! vise grips on your gear puller! nasty!
lol
looks like you have some new/old 16" rotors

artv · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2011, 07:09:54 PM »

Hi All ,....E1 the vise-grips are only used to snug things up...(easier to spin them than grip the 3/4" shaft)....
I tried the dual rotor with 18 poles on each disk ....the magnets were tight to each other (one after the other ,..no space between them).......then I tried with 16 poles on each disk (about a 1/8th" space between poles)......then I stacked all the mags on one disk with the 1/8 spacing and the blank steel .......
The dual rotor with the 18 poles was the same as the 16 poles , as far as output ,....using the same coil that is.....Maybe the coil for the 16 pole should be bigger,...or the 18 smaller......I'm not sure??
The AC out at 100 rpm was 1.3 in both dual set-ups , ...in the blank and all the poles on one disk were lower ~25 percent...
So I decided to try the open pole, with adjustable poles

The magnet poles can be shimmed (one way or the other) to get rid of wobble...
Here they are mounted

The output of the coil on one side of the open pole was 1.3VAC ....the same as the dual rotor....
With the open pole you get double the output( coil on each side) for the same amount of magnet material
I find the dual rotor very hard to get it to run true ......the open pole is much less work ,...it dosen't matter about diameter.....

I, just feel the dual rotor is more work than it's worth....artv

electrondady1 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2011, 12:03:56 PM »

i always use 50/50 spacing
so the space between mags is the same as the mag width.
your second photo looks about right.
can you take a picture of your coil overlaid on the mag rotor?
i'm suggesting a coil with the center hole the same size as your magnets (on average)
the legs the same width as a space .
so the total coil width adds up to three segments, two spaces and a mag width.
giving you a set up where there are 1/2 as many coils as there are poles
that's still single phase .
its tricky to get the mag placement right on a dual rotor when you use a hub with multiple bolts.
when in position, all the mags have to line up with a magnet of opposite polarity on the other rotor
a dual rotor is the optimum setup for flux density.

??
lots of questions, but if your getting 1.3 volts per coil with a single rotor a second rotor will give you 2.3v ac
x 8 coils gives18.4 volts ac.
x 1.4 for the rectifier=25.7 -1.4 for the diode drop=24.36 open volts.

stick your ugly baby on a 12 volt battery and see if you can pull some amps !
lol

artv · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2011, 07:05:18 PM »

Hi E-1,...that rotor didn't work out so good for me ,here's what I got now

...
there's 3 test coils mounted,their just primaries out of MW's,

but with the secondary added ,...

The Secondary coil adds to voltage,... through the roof ,..but the amps aren't there...
The only way to add Amps is to give more cross flow of electrons in the windings
Every turn inside the coil produces an EM field....

The biggest problem is the,. make break connection...
And I need bigger caps.......
just glueing all i got together.....artv

Jerry · « **Reply #5 on:** November 14, 2011, 08:51:18 PM »

artv. You've got me all inspiered now. I've got 20 large ceramics block magnets and a bunch of those microwave primary coils. OH so here we go again more ideas then time.
Thanks budy LOL.
Jerry

TomW · « **Reply #6 on:** November 15, 2011, 09:33:38 AM »

Quote from: Jerry on November 14, 2011, 08:51:18 PM

artv. You've got me all inspiered now. I've got 20 large ceramics block magnets and a bunch of those microwave primary coils.

Art, Sorry to hijack a bit here...

Jerry,

If you decide to do it I have like 4 of each primary and secondary coils in my copper barrel. They are yours if you want them

I just don't get inspired and get a burst of energy at the same time much these days. Lots of wannabe parts around here including a set or 2 of your PBS wind catchers.

Tom

tecker · « **Reply #7 on:** November 15, 2011, 11:00:11 AM »

I like to rip up microwave transformers .i even have a few primarys that are copper . that one in the Picture is aluminum . You say you got 1.3 volts ?

Tom
Install SAQRx on a laptop fashion a directional antenna and filters as needed I think you'll find the signal density increases at times the motives runs intense . Rational is not possible with these transmissions .I know you have the skills to look at the signal and you may find it informative .If not just disregard . I have more info but if you come to similar conclusions that would be more important.
http://sites.google.com/site/sm6lkm/saqrx

artv · « **Reply #8 on:** November 15, 2011, 07:39:25 PM »

Hi All,...
Jerry ...sorry for that,

TomW...feel free anytime

tecker....with just the primary I get (.3volts)......with the secondary coil added to the primary ,and the make break connection and a cap bank ,I got 1.3volts (same rpm same duration) ......but have since have improved output..........that's dc .......still different arrangements to try....artv

Jerry · « **Reply #9 on:** November 30, 2011, 01:02:47 PM »

Quote from: TomW on November 15, 2011, 09:33:38 AM

Quote from: Jerry on November 14, 2011, 08:51:18 PM
artv. You've got me all inspiered now. I've got 20 large ceramics block magnets and a bunch of those microwave primary coils.
Art, Sorry to hijack a bit here...

Jerry,

If you decide to do it I have like 4 of each primary and secondary coils in my copper barrel. They are yours if you want them

I just don't get inspired and get a burst of energy at the same time much these days. Lots of wannabe parts around here including a set or 2 of your PBS wind catchers.

Tom

Hi Tom.

Sorry I missed this responce. Yes I will take those primary coils. Let me know what you need in the way of $.

Thanks Tom.

Jerry

artv · « **Reply #10 on:** November 30, 2011, 07:19:02 PM »

Hi Jerry ,..since I got your attention ..I was looking through alot of your old photos....Thanks for the link Wooferhound....
Currently I've been trying multiple connections. I was wondering how you hook up the wires (the outputs) in this pic

if you use 3 bridges on this??
And this one has 3 wires out

This pic of the two stators

are these rewinds??? If so how do you get all the wire into the slots??? And do they combine to make a dual stator??
I hooked what I think are the starts of each phase together, then put the end of phase#1, to one side of the bridge,the end of phase #2 to the other side, this leaves the end of #3 and the 3 starts which,.. give an AC reading of 3.5VAC...
But when I put the 3.5 into a bridge of its own,..I connect it to the other bridge in parallel but get nothing

Will 2 different phases after going through the bridge not add??
Sorry for all the questions,..thats just the tip of the iceburg,...........but you guys are to blame lol
Thanks for your time ....artv

Jerry · « **Reply #11 on:** November 30, 2011, 08:55:39 PM »

artv.
The top picture is a stock Delco alternator. It is wired as per the schematic that Wooferhound posted on your "Output comparison" post.
The pic #2 is a stock GM alternator stator + a SW 403 rotor. This is only to show size difference. The 3rd picture stock Ford alternator and a SW 403 rotor. Again just for size comparison. The 403 is not wired 3 phase. The 403 stator shown is 100% stock. Its never been tampered with.

None of the alternator in the pictures have ever been rewound. As a mater of fact I've never rewound a car alternator. There is no need as far as I can see. If you would just use the stock windings you'll have some success. If you do rewind, just remove all the original wire and rewind with wire about 1/3 the original gage. Just rewind it the same, 3 phase just don't connect it 3 phase. Connect it IRP. one you do this you'll start seeing good performance. If you use stock wire, just do as the schematic Woof posted less the caps.

IRP can either by wire sires or parallel. With sock windings use sires. That is each phase when separated from the other 2 has 2 wire. Phase 1 start and phase 1 stop. connect the wires to the AC terminal of one bridge rectifier. There are no other connections to be made to phase ones start or stop. No other connection are to be made to phase ones AC terminals. PERIOD don't go there. Now do the same with phase 2 and phase three. Now the DC outputs can be wired in sires. Just like batteries. If you Had an alternator like a WindBLue 540 or equal that has 100s of turns of small wire per phase you would just simply wire the DC output of the bridges in parallel. I suggest not trying to incorporate added winding of small wire with the existing large stock wire. That's not a good mix and just adds complexity.. As I told another guy. That's like scotch taping a Jackass to a race horse to see if the horse will have more power. I can't see what I just wrote so it may be a bit screwed up sorry guys cause I'm typing blind as we speak. I can still hear though. This is goofy. How am I doing?

Jerry

Bruce S · « **Reply #12 on:** December 01, 2011, 10:29:58 AM »

Your doing just fine

.
The blind part is this medical or computer? IF computer and want me to really help there's a few things I can do to help out by a secure link from mine to yours while I'm here at work.
IF medical I can only say best of luck! but your typing blind is better than my double-vision typing

Bruce S

Jerry · « **Reply #13 on:** December 01, 2011, 10:59:20 AM »

Quote from: Bruce S on December 01, 2011, 10:29:58 AM

Your doing just fine .
The blind part is this medical or computer? IF computer and want me to really help there's a few things I can do to help out by a secure link from mine to yours while I'm here at work.
IF medical I can only say best of luck! but your typing blind is better than my double-vision typing

Bruce S

Hi Bruce. Its my computer. Funny thing is I don't have this problem on other forums with simular looking set ups. The box I'm typing in now has room for maybe 2 more lines. After that what I'm typing drops below and I can't see what I'm typing. If I try to scroll up It just pops back down the instank I tuch any key. The space I have available depends on how much space has not allready been used by the person I'm responding to. This is more of a problem when I respond using the quote button as oposed to using the reply button.

I'm in the blind mode now. I use to put more spaces between my thoughts.Now I just crame it all together so I can see what I'm typing.

Jerry, I hope I spelled my nabne rifght Jedrry.

artv · « **Reply #14 on:** December 01, 2011, 06:31:48 PM »

Jerry,..that there's funny

.....but my piont was,..you only have 3 wires as outputs in the pics ,..how do I wire it as per Woofers' schematic ,which requires 6???...Two for each bridge IRP...
BTW ..the same thing happens to me ,...once I fill the box my typing disappears...
Oh and I like the pics of your wind tunnel,... still alot of pics to go yet...great stuff Jerry,..thanks....artv

Jerry · « **Reply #15 on:** December 01, 2011, 07:35:13 PM »

Quote from: artv on December 01, 2011, 06:31:48 PM

Jerry,..that there's funny .....but my piont was,..you only have 3 wires as outputs in the pics ,..how do I wire it as per Woofers' schematic ,which requires 6???...Two for each bridge IRP...
BTW ..the same thing happens to me ,...once I fill the box my typing disappears...
Oh and I like the pics of your wind tunnel,... still alot of pics to go yet...great stuff Jerry,..thanks....artv

You find the original star point connection. Thats were 3 wires are joined together with nothing else connected. Seperate the wire there. Using an Ohm meter you'll be able to find each phases 2 connections. So you have the original 3 wires that went to the factory 3 phase bridge rectifier + 3 more new wires you just found. Now you have 2 connections for each of the 3 phases = 6 wires. The 3 wires in the pics is were I was compairing star or wye connection to IRP. There should also be a picture somewhere showing 6 wires comming out.

Jerry

Simen · « **Reply #16 on:** December 02, 2011, 02:14:26 AM »

Quote from: Jerry on December 01, 2011, 10:59:20 AM

Hi Bruce. Its my computer. Funny thing is I don't have this problem on other forums with simular looking set ups. The box I'm typing in now has room for maybe 2 more lines. After that what I'm typing drops below and I can't see what I'm typing. If I try to scroll up It just pops back down the instank I tuch any key. The space I have available depends on how much space has not allready been used by the person I'm responding to. This is more of a problem when I respond using the quote button as oposed to using the reply button.

I'm in the blind mode now. I use to put more spaces between my thoughts.Now I just crame it all together so I can see what I'm typing.

Jerry, I hope I spelled my nabne rifght Jedrry.

If you're using IE 9, there's a icon in the address bar that looks like a papersheet torn in two. With that icon you can turn on 'compability view' for this site. That will fix that blind mode for you...

IE will remember that setting for this site, so you won't need to do that for this site more than once...

Jerry · « **Reply #17 on:** December 02, 2011, 12:06:27 PM »

Quote from: Simen on December 02, 2011, 02:14:26 AM

Quote from: Jerry on December 01, 2011, 10:59:20 AM
Hi Bruce. Its my computer. Funny thing is I don't have this problem on other forums with simular looking set ups. The box I'm typing in now has room for maybe 2 more lines. After that what I'm typing drops below and I can't see what I'm typing. If I try to scroll up It just pops back down the instank I tuch any key. The space I have available depends on how much space has not allready been used by the person I'm responding to. This is more of a problem when I respond using the quote button as oposed to using the reply button.

I'm in the blind mode now. I use to put more spaces between my thoughts.Now I just crame it all together so I can see what I'm typing.

Jerry, I hope I spelled my nabne rifght Jedrry.

If you're using IE 9, there's a icon in the address bar that looks like a papersheet torn in two. With that icon you can turn on 'compability view' for this site. That will fix that blind mode for you...
IE will remember that setting for this site, so you won't need to do that for this site more than once...

Ok I found the torn paper in the address bar. I'm not shure if I have IE 9. I looked in properties but couldn't find that info. I'm just blabing on now to see what happens. I hope it works. So far so good.

Hey I think it does work. That was realy easy.

Thanks for the help.

Hey this is great. The other folks with the same problem should try this.

Thanks again.

Jerry I can see, I can see, I can see, YE HA.

Bruce S · « **Reply #18 on:** December 02, 2011, 01:43:59 PM »

Where else can you get computer tech-support AND RE info.
Just another service we're happy to provide :-)

Simen · « **Reply #19 on:** December 02, 2011, 02:19:56 PM »

I struggled with the exact same problem for 2 months before i clicked it in desperation, during typing here...

I think that icon only appears on sites which benefits from it.... I believe it has something to do about IE soon will abandon some 'older' html coding...

Edit:
Since IE detects such aforementioned sites, it should be able to determine if 'compability view' should be standard for that site; but nooo...
'Let's irritate the user until he bugs the h*** out of the site's creator... or scares him/her away from these old fashioned sites'...'

That's m$ for you... $:-\$

Bruce S · « **Reply #20 on:** December 02, 2011, 02:30:18 PM »

I don't normally use $IE$ except for sites that require it then there always the plug-in for FFox and such.
usually I have to go load it up and find the problem.
Glad it got sorted out

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Author Topic: Old to New (Read 5368 times)