somewhat confused

[mjc2002]

i have several stupid questions:

1. on the pre-cast stators sold for $225-$245...i see only three connections, where are the other three? each coil has two ends, there are three phases, so the brass bolts are one end of each phase, where is the other connection of each phase?
   
2. why are the coils "air core"? wouldn't powdered ferrite mixed with epoxy and poured into the center of each loop be better and produce more?
   
3. and lastly i guess somewhat belayed.....if someone contributes to the design: adding efficiency; or lowering costs per kilowatt; or some vast improvement....would this person be rewarded in some way? or should they seek to patent the improvement first?
   
   

Thanks

Mark

[finnsawyer]

1.  The other three wires are connected together to make the "star".  Probably not a good idea as those ends end up being hidden and make Jerry rigging impossible.
   
2.  Air core has no "cogging" effect.  Your suggestion would to some degree or another.  One could also insert screws from the backside of the stator to whatever depth desired to increase the flux.
   
3.  If you want to know how new ideas are treated, read this:
   
   

     http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/4/21/16237/9933

As far as the patent, how deep are your pockets?

[ghurd]

 #1,

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/9/11/84741/6758

 #2, Iron losses, cogging, cost & complexity, and probably less effective per dollar.

 #3, I feel pretty safe saying "It's already been done".  And recoving that $50,000 spent on a patent will make the machine expensive enough to be expensive.

G-

[TomW]

mjc;

First, I must ask. Did you read here for even 5 minutes before posting? I didn't think so.

DanB keeps a tally of helpful ideas and sends bonus checks regularly to those he feels deserve it. I hear flux will be retiring in Barbados on his bonuses [or should be].

Our reward comes from having helped be part of a solution rather than just another part of the problem.

Patents are evil, senseless things that will draw my ire any time they are sought.

Its a new world coming on. Personally, I am beginning to think all new users should pay a fee to even read the board. After all, I have thousands of hours and probably millions of my words invested here and I seldom [never] have seen a dividend check.

Ok thats a joke but should illuminate my point.

Good day, sir.

[mjc2002]

didnt mean to offend

i also fear the fate of paul pantone myself

i will expound on my question later

thank you for the reply

[mjc2002]

grateful for your reply

thought "iron core" was better...... why else try the band saw blade in the volvo homebrew??

as to already been done........... havent seen the guys try using ONE rotor BETWEEN two "stator packs" loaded with coils? but i might have missed something.

think about it.....in EVERY design...HALF the magnetic flux is  sucked up against a chunk of metal, doing.....NOTHING!

why not spin ONE rotor  BETWEEN two stator packs? then BOTH sides of the magnet produce "juice".

HOW???  well increase the design of the the  two-inch round aluminum stator "stencil" that sells for $28....... by 2 inch or so....... and increase thickness by at-least double if not by factor of 3....so it can handle the stress of the magnets wanting to "fly away.  

double the magnetic flux lines cutting through coils, with LESS rotor weight....talk about low speed performance???

THINK about the design of the latest 17 ft beauty.... a true work of aart....but it has 4 faces of magnets and only 2 produce power....the other 2 do what?

FULLY REVERSE the design...make the "rotors" into fixed coil loaded stators and spin ther single dual sided rotor between them.

use ALL the magent to produce power?

isnt that efficient?

how do i get that idea to the guys?

Thanks

Mark

[Capt Slog]

On the subject of offence....

Are those two danasoft.com banners at the bottom of your posts really necessary?

.

[mjc2002]

unknown what the problem was but..............................................

[electrondady1]

most of the things you are suggesting have been tried and discarded .

if you wish to study and find out why

google search the board and find out why.

[TomW]

Cap;



Are those two danasoft.com banners at the bottom of your posts really necessary?

No they are not necessary or acceptable. As soon as I saw them I removed them from the .sig and it looks like the user edited his .sig, too.

I see those a lot and find them 100% offensive and what is much worse, invasive. Just another way to sucker regular folks into helping track the activities of others as you know they archive and sort / sell the data.

You can protect from them by redirecting DNS lookups to 127.0.0.1 in your computers "hosts" file. Just add this line:

127.0.0.1 www.danasoft.com

Next time you boot up the danasoft domain cannot be found so those annoying .sigs will just be broken. Aww gee.

Tom

No worries, its gone now.

Tom

[TomW]

I guess "harmless" is in the eye of the beholder. Those things are obnoxious, invasive, useless and, as far as I am concerned banned on this forum.

Anyone thats been online more than overnite should be aware of the fact that they mark you as having visited sites and the arse hats at danasoft sell that info that you so gullibly gathered for them.

They will not be tolerated, regardless of who thinks they are "harmless".

I do not think this is negotiable but you may ask DanB for an opinion if you feel the need to do it.

Tom

[finnsawyer]

"havent seen the guys try using ONE rotor BETWEEN two "stator packs" loaded with coils? but i might have missed something."

It's been considered.  It's not a particularly good idea, and this comment shows your lack of understanding of what a flux path means and does.  The iron behind the magnet, rather than doing nothing, actually enhances the flux through the air where the coil resides.  This has to do with a property of iron called the magnetic reluctance, which is sort of like resistance, but applies to magnetic flux rather than current.  The greater the reluctance of a material (or space- space exhibits reluctance too) the less the magnetic flux density and the less the flux passing through a given area.  The upshot is that the reluctance of air or space is about 1,000 times higher than that of the iron for the same path length.  With two stators you have doubled the reluctance of the air parts of the flux path.  This means half the flux or half the voltage per stator as the reluctance of the iron parts would not be affected as long as you did use the same iron parts.  Combining the outputs of the two stators, you would then get the same voltage as with the single stator.  Aside from the fact the you have doubled your work you also have doubled the resistance of each phase winding.  The result is less power.  This is a simplified explanation, and you should spend some time researching it on your own.

[fungus]

"You can protect from them by redirecting DNS lookups to 127.0.0.1 in your computers "hosts" file. Just add this line:"

Ubuntu etc also have a hosts.deny file too - so you just put in ALL: danasoft.com for example ..

[mjc2002]

i did search it out at your suggestion....thank you.

EVERY one that involves a dual stator STILL wastes flux.... for example

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/7/14/442/09914

magnet stator magnet stator magent

those two outside magnets arent  MONO poles of course....so two poles are wasted

didnt see a suggestion to mount ONE magnet rotor between two stators that diidnyt involve wasting two poles

magnets are two sided...why not use BOTH sides of a single magnet to create "juice"

but obviously i am no expert

thanks

[mjc2002]

i have seen where there is a suggestion to connect the stators in series

why? that increases resistance as you say

why not rectify and add in paralell?

if the north pole is cutting through a coil..what good does it do to have the south pole of the same magnet just stuck to a iron rod

like taking two buckets to the river

and only filling one??

thanks

[mjc2002]

I am totally confident in my lack of both knowledge and understanding

thats why i ask questions

you see, he who askes the question is a fool for five minutes....until he gets the answer he sought

he  who refuses to ask and gain knowledge......is a fool forever.......

God bless the unknowing....un-pompus...un-informed

God bless those that fail

Edison comes to mind

i am no edison that is for sure....but i only have UP to go

those full of pride and self-love

have only DOWN to look forward to in the end.

[fungus]

I think a fatal flaw in your understanding is what 'happens' to the other pole. Magnets emit flux lines which permeate through materials, when you have an iron backing on a magnet it redirects these flux lines forwards and boosts the density in the gap, so it isnt 'wasted'.

[wooferhound]

When magnets are stuck to iron, the flux is channeled through the iron which amplifies the strength of the magnets. You will not feel any magnetism on the backside of the iron because the magnetism is being channeled to the other magnets on the iron plate.

Here is a picture of what I'm talking about



The magnetism from the back of the magnet is not wasted, just redirected for better strength

[ghurd]

One,

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/12/2/5455/05495

You are confusing "wasting" with 'redirecting'.

G-

[finnsawyer]

You are aware, of course, that an electromagnet acts just like a permanent magnet, producing both a magnetic field and magnetic flux.  Well, I would like you to show where the flux is wasted in a transformer.  You know, those things that transform ac from say 120 volts down to 12.6 volts or up, as the case might be.

[Capt Slog]

you see, he who askes the question is a fool for five minutes....until he gets the answer he sought  

Sometimes a fool only wants to listen to the 'answer he sought' and has yet to realise that there's no point in asking the question if he is going to disbelieve the answer because it doesn't confirm his misconceptions.

.

[mjc2002]

thanks fr the info, visual helps incredibly. also another thread i read helped explain why AC is preferred over dc. i really appreciate the help you have given me to understand

[mjc2002]

a flaw indeed.........thanks for the explination, increases my understanding of this and my own stupidity

i think i had ONE helpful suggestion

use high gloss, oil based "spar varnish" aka gym floor finish on the blades

[TheCasualTraveler]

     Good job Finn, Ghurd and Woof. Those were some very straight forward and easy to follow answers, from a newcomers point of view. Woofer, a bit of cutting and pasting of this post with diagrams might go well in a FAQ.

[mjc2002]

Great work to say the least! wonderful to have them "sahre the wealth" of knowledge the have and not just suggest someone find the answers on thier own. with a few little keystrokes i have become educated beyond my expectations.... this is an honest heart-felt thank you....i hope they see it.... they are a treasure to the board

Mark